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TrueTomHarley

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  1. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Nana Fofana in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    You know, it is hard for me to believe -  I mean, I grapple with it, but cannot escape the idea - and I specifically exclude @JOHN BUTLER from this and a handful of others who are right on top of the trees and so have not the best vantage point for contemplating the forest - that the true purpose of all condemnation of the GB's oversight is to slow down or, ideally, stop the preaching of the good news. 
    Beyond all question, that is the effect. It is hard for me to believe that is not also the intent
    That is not to say it is even the deliberate intent of those who weigh in critically - it is easy to get caught up in a cause. However the effect is undeniably to thwart what Jesus said at Matthew 24:14 or turn it into a bland nothing with no power.
    Maybe I am missing something, but If they say they abhor child sexual abuse, if they assembled every member in the world at Regionals to educate them in prevention, and if they have achieved a prevention record 10 times that of anyone else, I do not see how they can be portrayed as the villains. I just don't. Temporarily lost footing in a windstorm - perhaps - but by no stretch of the imagination villains.
    I see it as an overall attack on the spread of the good news, made by persons or entities desperate that it not be told, no different in principle than the Russian ban, where sexual abuse charges played absolutely no role at all.
    That is not to say that the flashpoint is bogus, but only that it is being pumped up beyond all reason.
    There is something in the air of this system of things to tear down anything that is an accomplishment. Mark Zuckerberg had better step very carefully, for there are some who would crucify him in the afermath of Cambridge Analytica. Did anyone read his apology in its entirety and not just sound bytes that are selected to further differing agendas of those who report it? It sure sounded genuine to me - he says he does not deserve our business if he cannot do better - and responsible, and he immediately launched corrective measures.
    It is not enough. It will never be enough. Read how he is being reviled. He will apologize to his grave and it will not satisfy those who do not like him or Facebook.
  2. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Space Merchant in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    You know, it is hard for me to believe -  I mean, I grapple with it, but cannot escape the idea - and I specifically exclude @JOHN BUTLER from this and a handful of others who are right on top of the trees and so have not the best vantage point for contemplating the forest - that the true purpose of all condemnation of the GB's oversight is to slow down or, ideally, stop the preaching of the good news. 
    Beyond all question, that is the effect. It is hard for me to believe that is not also the intent
    That is not to say it is even the deliberate intent of those who weigh in critically - it is easy to get caught up in a cause. However the effect is undeniably to thwart what Jesus said at Matthew 24:14 or turn it into a bland nothing with no power.
    Maybe I am missing something, but If they say they abhor child sexual abuse, if they assembled every member in the world at Regionals to educate them in prevention, and if they have achieved a prevention record 10 times that of anyone else, I do not see how they can be portrayed as the villains. I just don't. Temporarily lost footing in a windstorm - perhaps - but by no stretch of the imagination villains.
    I see it as an overall attack on the spread of the good news, made by persons or entities desperate that it not be told, no different in principle than the Russian ban, where sexual abuse charges played absolutely no role at all.
    That is not to say that the flashpoint is bogus, but only that it is being pumped up beyond all reason.
    There is something in the air of this system of things to tear down anything that is an accomplishment. Mark Zuckerberg had better step very carefully, for there are some who would crucify him in the afermath of Cambridge Analytica. Did anyone read his apology in its entirety and not just sound bytes that are selected to further differing agendas of those who report it? It sure sounded genuine to me - he says he does not deserve our business if he cannot do better - and responsible, and he immediately launched corrective measures.
    It is not enough. It will never be enough. Read how he is being reviled. He will apologize to his grave and it will not satisfy those who do not like him or Facebook.
  3. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Foreigner in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    John, I think you are in some danger of losing it. Take some time off. Seriously. I am not out to get you. I have just  pushed back at some of your charges.
    You initially represented yourself as about to embark on a quest to find just what was the truth, or something to that effect - I forget the exact wording. The way you have conducted yourself here would indicate you were never in the slightest doubt of it. Go off on your quest if you are going to.
    Sit silently in the Hall if it helps you in any way, but it sounds to me like you have absolutely writen that option off and I do not know how you can take umbridge at "so and so is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." Are you? Sounds like a good call, to me. 
    Either make your peace with JWs are they are represented on move on. Don't stay here, at least not for now. You are working yourself into a lather.
     
  4. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from JW Insider in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    John, if I ever was to find myself on the outside looking in due to what I thought was primarily 'politics', I would continue to come to meetings, and take in the instruction that is to found nowhere else, while I waited for the bruhaha to pass. Seriously. There is no reason you cannot.
    I have thought about it. Here I am on a site where villains traverse freely and there is abundant counsel not to hang out with them. It is counsel, not law, and I do not consider myself 'associating' with them, but things can be misunderstood and every so often some 'zealous-for-no-rivalry' person overacts. I don't think it is very likely at all, but it is not impossible.
    I really would keep attending, so long as I felt Jehovah's Witnesses were right. I would figure that I was just termporarily on the outs with them, it will blow over eventually, and that i can always request reinstatement from time to time. Eventually one would stick. In the meantime, I would not insist that they 'come around.'  I would be open to the possibility that I might have contributed to the mess.
    To be sure, I would miss the association, and I would probably not attend so constantly as I do now, which is almost without miss, but I would keep coming to the only place I know of where the Bible is discussed accurately. Though the association might be closed off, the spiritual food would remain undiminished.
    I know of one person who, while disfellowshipped, began attending meetings. Elders soon spoke with her, and she had  no idea that she could be reinstated. She just figured the chasm would stay open till Armagedon but in the meantime she would go where she knew there was accurate knowledge.
    Why did she have no idea? Who knows? Such times are emotional. Maybe elders did not make it sufficiently clear. She is back now. Until recently, elders made a real effort to personally contact each DF one in their territory at least once a year. That's better 'service' than the typical non-Witness gets. Don't tell me they are not interested in people.
    John, you are at a crossroads. Don't screw it up, becasue it will affect your family more than you. Don't regard it as a pissing contest between you and the GB. Tell your kids: 'yeah, I got in a tiff with the brothers, but it will smooth out in time,' If you are truly convinced that the GB should be removed, be like David, who knew he was to be king, but in the meantime would not lay a hand on 'Jehovah's annointed' and rebuked those who tried to make him go there.
     
  5. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    Tell me about it. I can hear you from here   
  6. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    I appreciate this. I really do, and you are not that far off the mark. Unfortunately, I tend to distrust such things, as a result of observing, reading, and yes, even some personal experience. 
    I am content that I can sleep sound at night, or would, if I did not have to rise and pee, a condition not uncommon at my age. Usually I fall right back to sleep. But occasionally I must check to see that they are behaving with reasonable decorum at the WorldNewMedia and that the Librarian has not fallen off the wagon again.
  7. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    John, if I ever was to find myself on the outside looking in due to what I thought was primarily 'politics', I would continue to come to meetings, and take in the instruction that is to found nowhere else, while I waited for the bruhaha to pass. Seriously. There is no reason you cannot.
    I have thought about it. Here I am on a site where villains traverse freely and there is abundant counsel not to hang out with them. It is counsel, not law, and I do not consider myself 'associating' with them, but things can be misunderstood and every so often some 'zealous-for-no-rivalry' person overacts. I don't think it is very likely at all, but it is not impossible.
    I really would keep attending, so long as I felt Jehovah's Witnesses were right. I would figure that I was just termporarily on the outs with them, it will blow over eventually, and that i can always request reinstatement from time to time. Eventually one would stick. In the meantime, I would not insist that they 'come around.'  I would be open to the possibility that I might have contributed to the mess.
    To be sure, I would miss the association, and I would probably not attend so constantly as I do now, which is almost without miss, but I would keep coming to the only place I know of where the Bible is discussed accurately. Though the association might be closed off, the spiritual food would remain undiminished.
    I know of one person who, while disfellowshipped, began attending meetings. Elders soon spoke with her, and she had  no idea that she could be reinstated. She just figured the chasm would stay open till Armagedon but in the meantime she would go where she knew there was accurate knowledge.
    Why did she have no idea? Who knows? Such times are emotional. Maybe elders did not make it sufficiently clear. She is back now. Until recently, elders made a real effort to personally contact each DF one in their territory at least once a year. That's better 'service' than the typical non-Witness gets. Don't tell me they are not interested in people.
    John, you are at a crossroads. Don't screw it up, becasue it will affect your family more than you. Don't regard it as a pissing contest between you and the GB. Tell your kids: 'yeah, I got in a tiff with the brothers, but it will smooth out in time,' If you are truly convinced that the GB should be removed, be like David, who knew he was to be king, but in the meantime would not lay a hand on 'Jehovah's annointed' and rebuked those who tried to make him go there.
     
  8. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from AllenSmith in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    Don't look at me. I was nowhere close.    (who?)
    Oh. Wait. I just reread and went on to the 2nd portion. You know, @James Thomas Rook Jr. is right and I really do appreciate his observation, though I am not sure he made it for that reason. I do miss things.
    I will say it is because my mind is a veritable hive of activity, grappling with 100 ideas at once while the average person can do but one.
    He will say it is because I am dumb.
  9. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from AllenSmith in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    I appreciate this. I really do, and you are not that far off the mark. Unfortunately, I tend to distrust such things, as a result of observing, reading, and yes, even some personal experience. 
    I am content that I can sleep sound at night, or would, if I did not have to rise and pee, a condition not uncommon at my age. Usually I fall right back to sleep. But occasionally I must check to see that they are behaving with reasonable decorum at the WorldNewMedia and that the Librarian has not fallen off the wagon again.
  10. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    John, if I ever was to find myself on the outside looking in due to what I thought was primarily 'politics', I would continue to come to meetings, and take in the instruction that is to found nowhere else, while I waited for the bruhaha to pass. Seriously. There is no reason you cannot.
    I have thought about it. Here I am on a site where villains traverse freely and there is abundant counsel not to hang out with them. It is counsel, not law, and I do not consider myself 'associating' with them, but things can be misunderstood and every so often some 'zealous-for-no-rivalry' person overacts. I don't think it is very likely at all, but it is not impossible.
    I really would keep attending, so long as I felt Jehovah's Witnesses were right. I would figure that I was just termporarily on the outs with them, it will blow over eventually, and that i can always request reinstatement from time to time. Eventually one would stick. In the meantime, I would not insist that they 'come around.'  I would be open to the possibility that I might have contributed to the mess.
    To be sure, I would miss the association, and I would probably not attend so constantly as I do now, which is almost without miss, but I would keep coming to the only place I know of where the Bible is discussed accurately. Though the association might be closed off, the spiritual food would remain undiminished.
    I know of one person who, while disfellowshipped, began attending meetings. Elders soon spoke with her, and she had  no idea that she could be reinstated. She just figured the chasm would stay open till Armagedon but in the meantime she would go where she knew there was accurate knowledge.
    Why did she have no idea? Who knows? Such times are emotional. Maybe elders did not make it sufficiently clear. She is back now. Until recently, elders made a real effort to personally contact each DF one in their territory at least once a year. That's better 'service' than the typical non-Witness gets. Don't tell me they are not interested in people.
    John, you are at a crossroads. Don't screw it up, becasue it will affect your family more than you. Don't regard it as a pissing contest between you and the GB. Tell your kids: 'yeah, I got in a tiff with the brothers, but it will smooth out in time,' If you are truly convinced that the GB should be removed, be like David, who knew he was to be king, but in the meantime would not lay a hand on 'Jehovah's annointed' and rebuked those who tried to make him go there.
     
  11. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    It was not anywhere near so biting as you imagine. But I took back even that because it appeared he was on the verge of a breakdown.
    I mean, c'mon! He called me a servant of the devil. I am expected to instantly coo love back to him?
    And he appears to have caught the spirit of the good advice I finally did give (not that it was in direct response) when he said:
    Anyway the sun is shining here and i will go into our garden and give thanks to God for His creation. I hope you all have a pleasant day. i wish you no harm. As i keep saying, we are all individuals and all have our own opinions. So be it. Only time will tell right from wrong.  
    Good. He needs time to cool down. So do I, perhaps. I don't disagree with those final words at all. Maybe he is even on to something. Because the sun sure isn't shining here as I look out my window.
     
  12. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Queen Esther in Jehovah’s Witnesses in Vietnam Welcome Trump on Sunday   
    Some of the silliest people on the planet are celebrities. All of them, really, except our handful.
    They lead very atypical lives. They are not subject to the same pressures of everyone else. Their opinions don't matter.
  13. Downvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    John, I think you are in some danger of losing it. Take some time off. Seriously. I am not out to get you. I have just  pushed back at some of your charges.
    You initially represented yourself as about to embark on a quest to find just what was the truth, or something to that effect - I forget the exact wording. The way you have conducted yourself here would indicate you were never in the slightest doubt of it. Go off on your quest if you are going to.
    Sit silently in the Hall if it helps you in any way, but it sounds to me like you have absolutely writen that option off and I do not know how you can take umbridge at "so and so is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." Are you? Sounds like a good call, to me. 
    Either make your peace with JWs are they are represented on move on. Don't stay here, at least not for now. You are working yourself into a lather.
     
  14. Like
  15. Sad
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Nana Fofana in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    The cops found pictures of cats on my hard drive. I have been outed in the media. My life is so over!

  16. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Space Merchant in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    I am beginning to come around to NB's point of view. 
    They DO owe us more.
    If you drill into the data (and this is discussed on the other thread - opposers have seen fit to start not just one, but TWO, simultaneous threads - it becomes evident that Jehovah's Witnesses have a greater prevention rate of child sexual abuse ten-fold over that of anyone else!
    Imagine. Ten times the success rate of others! THIS is the fact that should be highlighted for members that need or want to know and in not doing this they are being let down. 
    They are letting the enemies frame the entire argument. They should not do this.
    Now - techically it is inaccurate to say they have ten times the success rate of prevention than anyone else. They have ten times the success rate of the general population. Who is to say how they stack up to the Baptists or the Adventists or the atheists or the - anyone? There is no way to tell, because nobody else dared touch these figures. Obviously chlld sexual abuse occurs everywhere - just tune in the TV news to convince yourself - but nobody else cared or dared to look into their own membership with a view of uncovering and disciplining the evil actions within their own organization!
    Thus whenever anyone else is charged with child sexual abuse, their rellgion is never a factor - it is never reported (unless they are clergy)The Witness organization fails its members by not pointing this out. How did there come to be a "pedophile list" in the first place? It is a consequence of internal church disciple so as to present to God a clean people that the Bible says he demands. EVERYONE should have done this and NOBODY did. THAT is the fact that should be highlighted endlessly.
    By not doing this, they have reduced good solid loyal members to saying: "well - we don't like child sexual abuse either - really, we don't." That is why I appreciate @AllenSmith, abrasive though he is. He does not fall into this trap. He does not let those who hate Jehovah's Witnesses assume the higher moral ground. He tirelessly points out why they do not deserve it. Every once in a while he goes too far and he is tossed out on his ear. (though I have never heard of this happening to his opponents who can be equally outlandish) But he dusts himself off, alters the spelling of his name, and rejoins the fray.
    Bethel should not let the haters of Christian organization frame their 'reality' in preferance of the one which is far more important. Why are they doing it? My guess is that they are like deer caught in the headlights. They are decent, honest men - not oily manipulators - and they are dumbfounded that a deed with such good motive should be portrayed as so foul.
    What are they guilty of anyway? There is a reason for the expression "skeletons in the closet." It is the universal human instinct to keep them there. They were slow to realize that the new imperitive is to stampede them through Dodge City. They have never said members should not go to outside authorities should they become aware of abuse. It is at most presiding over a culture in which people are reluctant to air dirty laundry in public because they try to represent something very high and they are loathe to sully it by advertizing when they contrary conduct in their midst. These days elders positively urge families to report to authorities when they come across an instance of it only to find not everyone want to be on the 11 News as the home of Today's Pervert. If it is not mandated by law, you cannot make them, nor can you go over their head and do it yourself. This is why Bro Jackson pleaded to make it mandatory accorss all territories because it would "make out job so much easier."
    They have to deal with what really is the smaller picture, which is being done, while they steadfasting make sure the greater picture is in sharp focus: a prevention rate that is ten times that of the general population.
    Seen in this light, if there are to be more inquiries in other countries, parallel to what the ARC has done, and those who hate Witnesses are wetting themselves in anticipation, I say Bring It On! 
    Let each one of them establish what the ARC did - that Jehovah's Witnesses are head and shoulders above others in preventing child sexual abuse. Let the sole victory of the opposers be to say: "Well - well - well, they're not perfect, are they?"
  17. Thanks
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Nana Fofana in CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES   
    I am beginning to come around to NB's point of view. 
    They DO owe us more.
    If you drill into the data (and this is discussed on the other thread - opposers have seen fit to start not just one, but TWO, simultaneous threads - it becomes evident that Jehovah's Witnesses have a greater prevention rate of child sexual abuse ten-fold over that of anyone else!
    Imagine. Ten times the success rate of others! THIS is the fact that should be highlighted for members that need or want to know and in not doing this they are being let down. 
    They are letting the enemies frame the entire argument. They should not do this.
    Now - techically it is inaccurate to say they have ten times the success rate of prevention than anyone else. They have ten times the success rate of the general population. Who is to say how they stack up to the Baptists or the Adventists or the atheists or the - anyone? There is no way to tell, because nobody else dared touch these figures. Obviously chlld sexual abuse occurs everywhere - just tune in the TV news to convince yourself - but nobody else cared or dared to look into their own membership with a view of uncovering and disciplining the evil actions within their own organization!
    Thus whenever anyone else is charged with child sexual abuse, their rellgion is never a factor - it is never reported (unless they are clergy)The Witness organization fails its members by not pointing this out. How did there come to be a "pedophile list" in the first place? It is a consequence of internal church disciple so as to present to God a clean people that the Bible says he demands. EVERYONE should have done this and NOBODY did. THAT is the fact that should be highlighted endlessly.
    By not doing this, they have reduced good solid loyal members to saying: "well - we don't like child sexual abuse either - really, we don't." That is why I appreciate @AllenSmith, abrasive though he is. He does not fall into this trap. He does not let those who hate Jehovah's Witnesses assume the higher moral ground. He tirelessly points out why they do not deserve it. Every once in a while he goes too far and he is tossed out on his ear. (though I have never heard of this happening to his opponents who can be equally outlandish) But he dusts himself off, alters the spelling of his name, and rejoins the fray.
    Bethel should not let the haters of Christian organization frame their 'reality' in preferance of the one which is far more important. Why are they doing it? My guess is that they are like deer caught in the headlights. They are decent, honest men - not oily manipulators - and they are dumbfounded that a deed with such good motive should be portrayed as so foul.
    What are they guilty of anyway? There is a reason for the expression "skeletons in the closet." It is the universal human instinct to keep them there. They were slow to realize that the new imperitive is to stampede them through Dodge City. They have never said members should not go to outside authorities should they become aware of abuse. It is at most presiding over a culture in which people are reluctant to air dirty laundry in public because they try to represent something very high and they are loathe to sully it by advertizing when they contrary conduct in their midst. These days elders positively urge families to report to authorities when they come across an instance of it only to find not everyone want to be on the 11 News as the home of Today's Pervert. If it is not mandated by law, you cannot make them, nor can you go over their head and do it yourself. This is why Bro Jackson pleaded to make it mandatory accorss all territories because it would "make out job so much easier."
    They have to deal with what really is the smaller picture, which is being done, while they steadfasting make sure the greater picture is in sharp focus: a prevention rate that is ten times that of the general population.
    Seen in this light, if there are to be more inquiries in other countries, parallel to what the ARC has done, and those who hate Witnesses are wetting themselves in anticipation, I say Bring It On! 
    Let each one of them establish what the ARC did - that Jehovah's Witnesses are head and shoulders above others in preventing child sexual abuse. Let the sole victory of the opposers be to say: "Well - well - well, they're not perfect, are they?"
  18. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Space Merchant in Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse / Pedophilia and the Governing body.   
    The authorities who must view child porn in the course of doing their jobs liken it to Medusa: "One look and you turn to stone"
  19. Thanks
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Space Merchant in Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse / Pedophilia and the Governing body.   
    Two years ago a report said:
    “in family courts throughout the [United States], evidence that one of the parents is sexually or physically abusing a child is routinely rejected. Instead, perpetrators of abuse are often entrusted with visits or joint or sole custody of the children they abuse.”
    Read it here:  https://www.salon.com/2016/12/11/custody-in-crisis-how-family-courts-nationwide-put-children-in-danger/
    but don't read it unless you are prepared to get very sad and very angry
    The point is that the ones you hang out with online will have you believe that "handling an child sexual abuse case properly" is key to protecting children. Read the report and you will read case after case where it turned out to be exactly the opposite - reporting it to the authorities led to more abuse of the child, sometimes at the cost of its life.
    This accusation is too stupid to countenance. How can you be so dumb?
    So you have put your trust in the human system of courts as the ones who see justice from God's viewpoint! Is your confidence in human justice as strong after reading how the family courts routinely screw up what is put in their lap?
    One lesson to be learned is to value the conscience and godly devotion of the GB that has maintained an organization that is 90% less likely to originate cases of abuse that the courts may screw up when it is handed over to them. Bizarrely, you seem to not care at all about this. You seem to delight in the prospect of taking down the people who have ten times the success rate in prevent child sexual abuse in the first place. Seen in this light, it is YOU who are a friend of child sexual abuse. YOU malign the people who best prevent it in favor of a human justice system that may protect children after the event or may screw them up even worse.
    Legal tactics and the court system have been discussed at length on other threads so I will not revisit them here. Go there and look them up. However, in a nutshell, might there be a reason that the Society has not quickly kowtowed to a given legal demand? I think you said it yourself:
    They certainly have been previously - on a nationwide scale - as evidenced by the Salon article, despite the fact that you appear to have absolute confidence in them.
    You are hanging out with single-issue people, and single-issue people of any stripe will distort your world view. Single-issue people usually become those who 'cannot see the forest for the trees.' You are particularly vulnerable to this (more on this later, perhaps) by reason of being an abuse victim yourself.
    Because we are in the last days (I fear you are already walking back on this) there are literally thousands of atrocities to choose from and each of them generates its own batch of single-issue people - usually the ones who have suffered acutely due to that issue. To focus on one so intently so as not to appreciate anything else will only mess you up.
    I am writing a book on the persecution of our brothers in Russia. The media is rabid against Witnesses there, and reports against them all the time. One typical article slanders them non-stop, as low beings who “wet in the toilet,” would “clog your brains,” do “dark things through Jehovah,” and as to your money, they would have you “give the last.” The Supreme Court has ruled that parents can be stripped of parental rights for involvement of children in the sect. 79% of all Russians agree with this. (it has not been reported as happening yet, but the legalities are in place)  Apostates were very active as prosecution witnesses, in full knowledge that they might be sending family members to jail, and certainly their former friends. This, even though pedophile accusations are not at all a concern over there - they have plenty of others.
    https://og.ru/society/2017/10/23/92255   (use AI to translate)    and
    http://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/171204d.html
    My point is that you, over time, will come to agree with them fully. We are who we hang out with. You say you are conducting a fine investigation as to who really has the truth. I would say to wrap that up quickly if you can because the time's they are a 'changing.
    You have spoken of the pain of abuse, of how current victims might be helped, and how you prayed and got nothing. These are worthwhile points. If you can avoid for a time rolling with the pigs who would accuse the GB of sponsoring child sexual abuse even though they prevent it to a degree ten times better than your current heroes, I will address those things.
    If you cannot, I will throw up my hands and say he has chosen his new family - he is fully vested. He has volunteered to be a lieutenant of the army of kings of the earth attacking with the beast. He is a 'reformer' and since they will not reform on his terms, he will see them destroyed. Time is not unlimited. No sense in spending time trying to dislodge his grip, for he just tightens it further.
     
     
  20. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Malum Intellectus in Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse / Pedophilia and the Governing body.   
    Strictly speaking, we are not supposed to be here at all.
  21. Thanks
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Nana Fofana in Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse / Pedophilia and the Governing body.   
    Two years ago a report said:
    “in family courts throughout the [United States], evidence that one of the parents is sexually or physically abusing a child is routinely rejected. Instead, perpetrators of abuse are often entrusted with visits or joint or sole custody of the children they abuse.”
    Read it here:  https://www.salon.com/2016/12/11/custody-in-crisis-how-family-courts-nationwide-put-children-in-danger/
    but don't read it unless you are prepared to get very sad and very angry
    The point is that the ones you hang out with online will have you believe that "handling an child sexual abuse case properly" is key to protecting children. Read the report and you will read case after case where it turned out to be exactly the opposite - reporting it to the authorities led to more abuse of the child, sometimes at the cost of its life.
    This accusation is too stupid to countenance. How can you be so dumb?
    So you have put your trust in the human system of courts as the ones who see justice from God's viewpoint! Is your confidence in human justice as strong after reading how the family courts routinely screw up what is put in their lap?
    One lesson to be learned is to value the conscience and godly devotion of the GB that has maintained an organization that is 90% less likely to originate cases of abuse that the courts may screw up when it is handed over to them. Bizarrely, you seem to not care at all about this. You seem to delight in the prospect of taking down the people who have ten times the success rate in prevent child sexual abuse in the first place. Seen in this light, it is YOU who are a friend of child sexual abuse. YOU malign the people who best prevent it in favor of a human justice system that may protect children after the event or may screw them up even worse.
    Legal tactics and the court system have been discussed at length on other threads so I will not revisit them here. Go there and look them up. However, in a nutshell, might there be a reason that the Society has not quickly kowtowed to a given legal demand? I think you said it yourself:
    They certainly have been previously - on a nationwide scale - as evidenced by the Salon article, despite the fact that you appear to have absolute confidence in them.
    You are hanging out with single-issue people, and single-issue people of any stripe will distort your world view. Single-issue people usually become those who 'cannot see the forest for the trees.' You are particularly vulnerable to this (more on this later, perhaps) by reason of being an abuse victim yourself.
    Because we are in the last days (I fear you are already walking back on this) there are literally thousands of atrocities to choose from and each of them generates its own batch of single-issue people - usually the ones who have suffered acutely due to that issue. To focus on one so intently so as not to appreciate anything else will only mess you up.
    I am writing a book on the persecution of our brothers in Russia. The media is rabid against Witnesses there, and reports against them all the time. One typical article slanders them non-stop, as low beings who “wet in the toilet,” would “clog your brains,” do “dark things through Jehovah,” and as to your money, they would have you “give the last.” The Supreme Court has ruled that parents can be stripped of parental rights for involvement of children in the sect. 79% of all Russians agree with this. (it has not been reported as happening yet, but the legalities are in place)  Apostates were very active as prosecution witnesses, in full knowledge that they might be sending family members to jail, and certainly their former friends. This, even though pedophile accusations are not at all a concern over there - they have plenty of others.
    https://og.ru/society/2017/10/23/92255   (use AI to translate)    and
    http://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/171204d.html
    My point is that you, over time, will come to agree with them fully. We are who we hang out with. You say you are conducting a fine investigation as to who really has the truth. I would say to wrap that up quickly if you can because the time's they are a 'changing.
    You have spoken of the pain of abuse, of how current victims might be helped, and how you prayed and got nothing. These are worthwhile points. If you can avoid for a time rolling with the pigs who would accuse the GB of sponsoring child sexual abuse even though they prevent it to a degree ten times better than your current heroes, I will address those things.
    If you cannot, I will throw up my hands and say he has chosen his new family - he is fully vested. He has volunteered to be a lieutenant of the army of kings of the earth attacking with the beast. He is a 'reformer' and since they will not reform on his terms, he will see them destroyed. Time is not unlimited. No sense in spending time trying to dislodge his grip, for he just tightens it further.
     
     
  22. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse / Pedophilia and the Governing body.   
    Okay
    Okay
    Now you've got it!
    Once again, you have nailed it. I am way way up there in the ranks and I neglect all my crucial responsibilities to spend oodles of time posting to malcontents on the net, some of whom are nincompoops. I am a veritable theocratic tweeting Trump - 
     
    But @AllenSmith is even more lofty than me. I would not be shocked if he were the alter-online-ego of Bro Jackson, himself, working out his frustrations on a backwater internet channel that the most clean organization in the world is portrayed by the  ARC as among the foulest. To say nothing of the mysterious @Space Merchant.Where does he come from?
    Come, come. This is the internet, the land of the liars. If you want people you can know and trust, go to a place where you can physically interact with them.
    I think you are not being forthright either. You appear to have accepted the case 54 data that JW's have a better prevention record than anyone else. At any rate, you offer no pushback to it, though you do on other things. And ...
    you acknowledge that the organization with the best record, though not perfect, is improving. So NOW is the time you decide that it is too foul a place in which to sully your  feet? There is more to you than meets the eye.
    When God finds out about the few denarious' debt you will not forgive your fellow slave, what will he say about the 10,000 fold amount that you owe him?
  23. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from AllenSmith in Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse / Pedophilia and the Governing body.   
    Okay
    Okay
    Now you've got it!
    Once again, you have nailed it. I am way way up there in the ranks and I neglect all my crucial responsibilities to spend oodles of time posting to malcontents on the net, some of whom are nincompoops. I am a veritable theocratic tweeting Trump - 
     
    But @AllenSmith is even more lofty than me. I would not be shocked if he were the alter-online-ego of Bro Jackson, himself, working out his frustrations on a backwater internet channel that the most clean organization in the world is portrayed by the  ARC as among the foulest. To say nothing of the mysterious @Space Merchant.Where does he come from?
    Come, come. This is the internet, the land of the liars. If you want people you can know and trust, go to a place where you can physically interact with them.
    I think you are not being forthright either. You appear to have accepted the case 54 data that JW's have a better prevention record than anyone else. At any rate, you offer no pushback to it, though you do on other things. And ...
    you acknowledge that the organization with the best record, though not perfect, is improving. So NOW is the time you decide that it is too foul a place in which to sully your  feet? There is more to you than meets the eye.
    When God finds out about the few denarious' debt you will not forgive your fellow slave, what will he say about the 10,000 fold amount that you owe him?
  24. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Nana Fofana in Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse / Pedophilia and the Governing body.   
    Probably you have read the other threads and appreciated the significance of the 17 instances of Case 54 - that children in the JW environment appear to be ten times safer than in the overalll world. I have made that point. Others have, too.
    To spotlight this is called "raising a straw man." It is raising a tangential argument and subsequently demolishing it in hopes that the halo effect will spill over and hide the main concern. Persons of critical thinking hate raising straw men. It is a major no-no. With regard to Jehovah’s Witnesses, they do not want the faith compared to other organizations, where it will be seen as ten times better. They want them compared to perfection, where it will be seen to fall short.
    Will you really go livid at the organization that has a prevention rate ten times better? What will happen when you approach Jehovah and tell him you are 'in' only when there is perfection?
    This happened because you were determined to go out with a splash, or someone talked you into doing it. It didn't have to be. You could have faded or simply desisted congregation activity.
    You have let the liars frame your world for you. It is plain in every sentence you write. Ponder upon the JW record being ten times better than anyone else and then ask yourself - do you really want to hurl denunciations at it because it is not perfect. Hustle your rear end back to the Kingdom Hall and ask for readmiittance. It will not happen overnight, but it will reliably happen if you persist. It always does.
    Possibly not. But there is no reason to be a 'fighter against God' with regard to it and oppose the organization with a prevention record second to none. 
    As you will know if you read the report, the current Watchtower policy is that no child is required to face an abuser. And a child may, in relating things to those investigating allegations, have any support person present it wishes, male or female. And that - the elders are very insistant on pointing this out - any child, family member, or other person has every right to report to outside authorities, and that the elders will do it themselves where mandated.
  25. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Nana Fofana in Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse / Pedophilia and the Governing body.   
    That being the case,
    This is by far the most significant fact to emerge from the ARC data. It is the one you should focus on.
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