TrueTomHarley

I suggest the thread: 'Truetom Kidnaps @The Librarian'    (the old biddy)

Unfortunately, he is stuck with you, the same way he is stuck with me.
Many times he has tried to get out of his contract with me, which he perhaps feels he made too hastily. However, I always show him the forgiveness clause and he has no recourse but to back down - even though he may grumble about it. I have him over a barrel.
I'm kidding, of course, but only partly. There is a forgiveness clause - though, to be sure, we are not to "accept the undeserved kindness of God and miss its purpose." But let God determine when that has happened, not you.
Good. That means you also don't know that he doesn't approve of you. Assume that he does. Focus on the love. The forgiveness clause has him backed into a corner. You have him where you want him.
 
Because you figure Jehovah would understand your feelings and forgive you? He probably would, but the fallacy is to think he will not regarding the current struggles you go through, even if you feel you are getting pasted. Your family will forgive you, too, but they will be crushed - perhaps for life.
 
To the extent you can, lay off on this kind of thinking. We are all basket cases in one way or another - whether in the truth or not. Let God figure it out when and if you have disappointed him. All you really have to do for now is to avoid homosexual acts, which can't be super-hard because they always involve another party. In this respect you are no different from a straight person who is yet single. Viewing pornography is not good, but it is largely not good because it draws you into a funnel that doesn't end and the funnel skews your future ability to relate to a real person. Again, this is no less true of a straight person.
 
No. Even if you are a complete scoundrel in your congregation - and your comments make it very clear that you are not - you are doing a tremendous service right now by bringing something taboo but potentially lethal out in the open and allowing others, many of whom are mature, to comment. It is a thread that may benefit not just you, but they, and also others who may have the same issue as they stumble across it later.
Lay off on the guilt, to the extent you can. Or put it in perspective. Count yourself like Paul who pummeled himself and declared himself a 'miserable man' because what he wanted to do he did not do, and what he did not want to do he did do. What was his issue, anyway? Who's to say he was not gay, facing exactly the same troubles you face? I've no reason to think it is true, but I have no reason to think it is not true. It doesn't matter. It could be true, and that is good enough for you. His exact demon is probably left vague for exactly that reason - to help many persons in many struggles who will see that he is saying "been there, done that" and say "maybe he is talking about my problem."
Maybe even self-abuse is what he is carrying on about. Who can say? Masturbation is not great, but it is in some respects like porn - its the end result of a long habit that will mess you up, not an instance of the habit itself. Recently I read in some city how the cops were busting men for masturbation in the park. These were businessmen in suits on their lunch hour who were married. There were not few of them. Yes, sexual appetite unrestrained leads to the most disturbing conduct, but that is not at all true of a lapse here and there, which can be shrugged off as an "oh, well - life goes on." Lay off on the guilt is what I'm saying. Big as that Bible is, and as many are the things that it condemns, it no where condemns self abuse specifically. You must read it in from other verses having to do with self-control and with wholesome outlook about proper sexual relations. You read it in properly, make no mistake, but you must read it in nonetheless. If it were really a big deal, it would be the 11th commandment. Sometimes I think it is as much a Victorian relic as a biblical one that we carry on about it as much we do.
What are the things that really get God going - from that proverb about the six things that he hates - no, wait - make that seven? He hates anyone spreading contentions among brothers. You doing that? I don't think so. He hates "feet that are in a hurry to run to badness." It seems you are doing all you can to glue yours to the floor. "A false tongue" he hates. You been doing any lying lately? It doesn't look like it here. Oh, and he hates "hands that are shedding innocent blood" How are you doing on that score? Killed anyone lately? I didn't think so. Cut out Proverbs 6:16-19 and mount it next to the yeartext on your bedroom wall. Mount it over the yeartext, if need be. 
Of course you did.
 
If you fail you fail. Find that scripture about the righteous man who falls seven times and yet gets up each time, and put it next to your other new yeartext. You know what 'seven' means in the Bible - it could be a thousand times he messed up. How come he doesn't lose his 'righteous' status at the 5th failing? Because that's how God is with us - none of us are 'clean.' He deals with it. He doesn't have to. We don't sit back and fleece him for it - that's why we carry on a struggle. But go easy on the guilt. "No temptation has taken you that is not common to men," Paul says, and you don't knock every ball out of the park.
The mantra "born gay" is self-defeating. There is little evidence that it is that way. Gayness may be firmly entrenched for as long as one can remember, but that is not the same thing. Who knows what triggers it? In my youth it was accepted wisdom that it came as a result of parental dynamics, a domineering mother and a retreating father - which is far less depressing for someone determined to abide by God's standards because it implies change is possible. That accepted wisdom was never disproved, just as it was never proved in the first place. It was merely drowned out by another model which has also never been proved, but it is the favored model because it validates a lifestyle that some want validated. If there is one thing that has proven crystal clear in recent decades - to the astonishment of most - it is how amazingly fluid sexuality is. It does not respect 'one man-one woman.' It does not respect gender lines. It does not even respect age limits. It jumps the rails at every turn and is only nudged back on track with only great difficulty. 
How to nudge it? Have 'plenty to do in the work of the Lord,' Paul says. Accept that you have homosexual leanings for now and be done with it. You cannot act upon them, you certainly  work against your own interests should you deliberately cultivate them, but the leanings themselves do not disqualify you. They will fade so subtly you will not notice it, probably over much time, in this system or the next, as you routinely rub shoulders with persons who in this regard have their act together. In other regards, you do and they don't, and when you see someone whose feet are "in a hurry to run to badness," you can stick out one of yours and trip them up. They'll thank you for it later. In this way also you can be like one of the genuine members of the Christian body, which works smoothly with the other members. I don't know that is what Paul had in mind but it works,
No, ISB, you are not a washout. You are doing your brothers a tremendous service and the best is yet to come. "Strengthen your brothers when once you return," Jesus said to Peter. He could strengthen them only because he had gone somewhere. Had he never gone on a difficult journey, he could do no more than say "I know just how you feel." "Yeah, sure you do," his intended recipient would say, rolling his eyes. 

I write and a chapter of the 'Irregardless' book is devoted to this topic. Info on my profile page.
I won't post it online because I want to sell books. But if you email me, you or anyone similar gets it free. Even if you buy it, it's just six bucks. But it's free to anyone who suffer $ hardship. 
Here is an excerpt:
Fortunately, none of us are judged on feelings, but rather on deeds. Still, it’s good to get one feelings aligned with God’s standards, if at all possible, because feelings have a way of eventually showing up as deeds. I have only admiration for those Christians with gay leanings who are determined to live in accord with Bible standards. They are determined to stay celibate, if need be for the duration of this system, in their service to God, with faith that it will turn out well for them in the end, that their homosexual leanings will lessen and disappear over time, whether in this system or the next. This, in the face of a cacophony of propaganda that insists: ‘once gay, always gay.’
With any gays among us, it’s like swimming when swept out by the tide. They don’t try to swim against it, exerting all their might to will themselves straight; that’s a great recipe for failure – human sexuality doesn’t work that way. They don’t try to swim with the tide, abandoning themselves as slaves to their feelings. Instead, they swim parallel to it, likely for a long time, in hopes their feelings will eventually modify, allowing them to reach shore. Who else faces a comparable battle? It doesn’t seem quite fair, does it? One might argue that their faith in God is deeper than that of most, since they stay loyal to his arrangements despite the very real testimony of their own bodies. I have zero respect for frothing church types who rail against gays when they themselves have never been called upon to raise their little finger in comparable struggles.
Singleness as a way of life was once a quite common and respectable lifestyle, with no connotations whatsoever of abnormality. Read the classics and that point is easily established. But today, largely through the media, everything is sex, and people have come to define themselves in terms of their sexuality. It’s a herculean time for a gay person to be “fighting the fine fight.”
For once, I will not slam @Ann O'Malybecause she presents options and her utmost concern is for you. Perhaps I should even reexamine and walk back some other slams I have made. 
There is that verse somewhere that says 'I am convinced there is nothing to come between us and God's love (or is it Christ's?) neither this nor that nor a long list of hardships.' I like that verse. 

I write and a chapter of the 'Irregardless' book is devoted to this topic. Info on my profile page.
I won't post it online because I want to sell books. But if you email me, you or anyone similar gets it free. Even if you buy it, it's just six bucks. But it's free to anyone who suffer $ hardship. 
Here is an excerpt:
Fortunately, none of us are judged on feelings, but rather on deeds. Still, it’s good to get one feelings aligned with God’s standards, if at all possible, because feelings have a way of eventually showing up as deeds. I have only admiration for those Christians with gay leanings who are determined to live in accord with Bible standards. They are determined to stay celibate, if need be for the duration of this system, in their service to God, with faith that it will turn out well for them in the end, that their homosexual leanings will lessen and disappear over time, whether in this system or the next. This, in the face of a cacophony of propaganda that insists: ‘once gay, always gay.’
With any gays among us, it’s like swimming when swept out by the tide. They don’t try to swim against it, exerting all their might to will themselves straight; that’s a great recipe for failure – human sexuality doesn’t work that way. They don’t try to swim with the tide, abandoning themselves as slaves to their feelings. Instead, they swim parallel to it, likely for a long time, in hopes their feelings will eventually modify, allowing them to reach shore. Who else faces a comparable battle? It doesn’t seem quite fair, does it? One might argue that their faith in God is deeper than that of most, since they stay loyal to his arrangements despite the very real testimony of their own bodies. I have zero respect for frothing church types who rail against gays when they themselves have never been called upon to raise their little finger in comparable struggles.
Singleness as a way of life was once a quite common and respectable lifestyle, with no connotations whatsoever of abnormality. Read the classics and that point is easily established. But today, largely through the media, everything is sex, and people have come to define themselves in terms of their sexuality. It’s a herculean time for a gay person to be “fighting the fine fight.”
For once, I will not slam @Ann O'Malybecause she presents options and her utmost concern is for you. Perhaps I should even reexamine and walk back some other slams I have made. 
There is that verse somewhere that says 'I am convinced there is nothing to come between us and God's love (or is it Christ's?) neither this nor that nor a long list of hardships.' I like that verse. 

I would add to the list of how things are improving.
We have iPads. I use mine a lot.
People have to clean up after their dogs. There is no experience quite like sliding through a pile of you-know-what trying to stretch to catch a fly ball in the outfield. Thanks to modern advances, that doesn't happen anymore.
People are less inhibited speaking of dark things like suicide. Counterbalancing that somewhat is that there are many more suicides to talk about, as it becomes all the rage among the young who sense that the older ones they trusted have sold them down the river with their 'fake news' world.
Teen births, as you pointed out, are at an all-time low! A price has been paid, however, for this 'advance,' by some very tiny individuals who probably feel pain.
@James Thomas Rook Jr.would disagree that it is 'Crisis News Network" His heart seems planted on one side of the national squabble over which some have said another civil war might break out.
It's all in what you value. I am reminded of the quote from the old blue Truth book: 'True, there has been progress in a material way. But is it really progress when humans can send men to the moon, but cannot live in peace on earth with one another?'
Some people think it is.

Oh. So I can see pages on each one? I'll pass.
I've found a source that spins scriptures pretty well and that I have not found cause to complain with.

I write and a chapter of the 'Irregardless' book is devoted to this topic. Info on my profile page.
I won't post it online because I want to sell books. But if you email me, you or anyone similar gets it free. Even if you buy it, it's just six bucks. But it's free to anyone who suffer $ hardship. 
Here is an excerpt:
Fortunately, none of us are judged on feelings, but rather on deeds. Still, it’s good to get one feelings aligned with God’s standards, if at all possible, because feelings have a way of eventually showing up as deeds. I have only admiration for those Christians with gay leanings who are determined to live in accord with Bible standards. They are determined to stay celibate, if need be for the duration of this system, in their service to God, with faith that it will turn out well for them in the end, that their homosexual leanings will lessen and disappear over time, whether in this system or the next. This, in the face of a cacophony of propaganda that insists: ‘once gay, always gay.’
With any gays among us, it’s like swimming when swept out by the tide. They don’t try to swim against it, exerting all their might to will themselves straight; that’s a great recipe for failure – human sexuality doesn’t work that way. They don’t try to swim with the tide, abandoning themselves as slaves to their feelings. Instead, they swim parallel to it, likely for a long time, in hopes their feelings will eventually modify, allowing them to reach shore. Who else faces a comparable battle? It doesn’t seem quite fair, does it? One might argue that their faith in God is deeper than that of most, since they stay loyal to his arrangements despite the very real testimony of their own bodies. I have zero respect for frothing church types who rail against gays when they themselves have never been called upon to raise their little finger in comparable struggles.
Singleness as a way of life was once a quite common and respectable lifestyle, with no connotations whatsoever of abnormality. Read the classics and that point is easily established. But today, largely through the media, everything is sex, and people have come to define themselves in terms of their sexuality. It’s a herculean time for a gay person to be “fighting the fine fight.”
For once, I will not slam @Ann O'Malybecause she presents options and her utmost concern is for you. Perhaps I should even reexamine and walk back some other slams I have made. 
There is that verse somewhere that says 'I am convinced there is nothing to come between us and God's love (or is it Christ's?) neither this nor that nor a long list of hardships.' I like that verse. 

Wow! There are a lot of educated people today.
How's that world going that they have collectively built?

I write and a chapter of the 'Irregardless' book is devoted to this topic. Info on my profile page.
I won't post it online because I want to sell books. But if you email me, you or anyone similar gets it free. Even if you buy it, it's just six bucks. But it's free to anyone who suffer $ hardship. 
Here is an excerpt:
Fortunately, none of us are judged on feelings, but rather on deeds. Still, it’s good to get one feelings aligned with God’s standards, if at all possible, because feelings have a way of eventually showing up as deeds. I have only admiration for those Christians with gay leanings who are determined to live in accord with Bible standards. They are determined to stay celibate, if need be for the duration of this system, in their service to God, with faith that it will turn out well for them in the end, that their homosexual leanings will lessen and disappear over time, whether in this system or the next. This, in the face of a cacophony of propaganda that insists: ‘once gay, always gay.’
With any gays among us, it’s like swimming when swept out by the tide. They don’t try to swim against it, exerting all their might to will themselves straight; that’s a great recipe for failure – human sexuality doesn’t work that way. They don’t try to swim with the tide, abandoning themselves as slaves to their feelings. Instead, they swim parallel to it, likely for a long time, in hopes their feelings will eventually modify, allowing them to reach shore. Who else faces a comparable battle? It doesn’t seem quite fair, does it? One might argue that their faith in God is deeper than that of most, since they stay loyal to his arrangements despite the very real testimony of their own bodies. I have zero respect for frothing church types who rail against gays when they themselves have never been called upon to raise their little finger in comparable struggles.
Singleness as a way of life was once a quite common and respectable lifestyle, with no connotations whatsoever of abnormality. Read the classics and that point is easily established. But today, largely through the media, everything is sex, and people have come to define themselves in terms of their sexuality. It’s a herculean time for a gay person to be “fighting the fine fight.”
For once, I will not slam @Ann O'Malybecause she presents options and her utmost concern is for you. Perhaps I should even reexamine and walk back some other slams I have made. 
There is that verse somewhere that says 'I am convinced there is nothing to come between us and God's love (or is it Christ's?) neither this nor that nor a long list of hardships.' I like that verse. 

You have a far more challenging role on this forum than I, JTR, for you are trying to denigrate something that is undeniably good and that has some breathtaking accomplishments to show for it. True, they are human and thus they may misstep here and there. Seizing upon such missteps, for reasons i know not, have become your lifeblood.
You can invariably be made to look very small by harping on things, even when true, of an organization going places and doing things that no one has gone to or done before. Anybody with any ability to express thought through words via keyboard can do this. I even believe there are more here who could easily do it but they feel sorry for you somehow and refrain. I try to pick up the slack.
For crying out loud, come in from the cold, will you? Call a truce and bring your considerable talents - for you are a Mickey Spillane and who cannot love a Mickey Spillane? - to bear on a cause that will make you friends in high places, just like he did. He was a raucous, bigger than life, no-nonsense character with great humor and humility (and I see that all in you)  that undoubtedly locked horns with 'bureaucrats,' and I can so easily see the two of you as interchangeable, if only you would straighten out and fly right - as he did after a few choppy runs.
Whatever things have blown up in your face, as things have blown up in mine, count it as discipline from God that he permits - if doesn't cause - and let it mold you into a better person. Run with what you can and keep low-key about what you cannot, since you probably do that in your private person. You seem to have family and friends that care for you, unless you are writing of the past. Mend fences with them if you are & focus on them if you are not.
Remember, JTR, you no longer own the Hall that you built with the sweat of your brow. If you do not shape up, I will send an LDC brother to shut it down, sell it to a tomato distribution company,  and make you drive 30 minutes to another one.

Yikes! This thread - MY thread - is 'Why remain a Witness when bad things happen.' This is not why! This will send me running for cover!
Take it out on the street, you and the unreadable @j.r.ewing. Before I tell @The Librarian! THEN you'll BOTH be in big trouble, for she plays no favorites, except if she should take a liking to me.

Time to unload. Confession is good for the soul. I am @JW Insider!!!!!
(no.....just kidding)
It's probably so. Unfortunately, I can barely unravel my own stories.
I'm not even a thinker, really. I am Pastor Ingvist's substitute preacher, specifically selected for his dullness, because the pastor did not want to return from vacation and read his congregation’s disappointment. Instead, he wanted a sub that you would listen to and say: ‘I’ll bet he’s good in the shepherding work.’ Then he would come to your house and you would notice the lack of eye contact and say: ‘maybe he’s a scholar.’ I am not a scholar, either, leave the deep thinking to others – I don’t trust it anyway – but I have a certain knack for refocusing matters and combining ingredients in ways not typically combined, and I am a writer with great command of the language, assuming you are not fussy.

It's a bit much to suggest that God offs people over the details of modern doctrine. My God does not do so, assuming one does not attempt to grab the wheel from the driver.
And please don't say he does, or if you do say it, say it on the proper thread. It is territory well-covered lately.

The 'higher critics' who assume scriptures are human writings until proven otherwise say the same about Paul revising Jesus's teachings. They have him essentially founding another religion. I wonder how that factors in with those who carry on about Rutherford succeeding Russell, or Knorr succeeding Rutherford.
On the other hand, regarding someone on a much lesser level who caused considerable unnecessary chaos in the family, when a C.O. tried to soften it as Jehovah sending just the right personality at just the right time, I said 'Look. I know the line. I'm perfectly willing to spin it and even view things that way - God works with people. But I also want to call a spade a spade. The man is an unbalanced nut.'
Later when my daughter asked the C.O. about his conversation with her dad, the latter replied: "He was ... frank."

I also like, somewhere in the meeting last night, the synopsis of God's dealing with Israel:
'I let my people get beat up because they were too bad for too long. But then the nations said: 'Look! God can't protect his own people!' So I beat them up too. And I brought my own people back just to show them.'
It's no more complicated than that with the great God of all creation? No. It's not. Sometimes we overthink things.
Though his wisdom surpasses all understanding and we can see only the fringe of his outer garment, when he chooses to relate to humans, he is breathtaking in his mundane common sense. He's not ashamed of it. He glorifies it.

Without knowing more details, it's hard to know how to respond without hopscotching over many possibilities. I'm sorry to hear you feel that way and I would caution against any knee jerk reactions based on emotion. (Not saying that's actually the case here since info is sparse). Questions you might ask: Where else would I go? Am I prepared to do the things the other religions do? (Go to war? Believe in hell? Celebrate pagan holidays? Support political systems under Satans control? Be part of an organization that is divided politically, racially, ethnically? Would I deliberately hide Gods name in a Bible? Would I believe Jesus and Jehovah are co-equal as part of a Trinity? Would I keep what I believe to be life-saving truths to myself instead of sharing it with others? Would I be comfortable supporting a paid clergy to receive what Jesus gave for free? Would I be as spiritually educated elsewhere? ...) would I be willing to wait patiently until a clarification/adjustment is made either in my understanding or from the society? - it may take years. If I didn't agree with everything other religions taught either,  would I feel comfortable/qualified becoming my own religion - a religion of one?
The idea/reality of being treated as a criminal by the brothers may be an exaggeration or it may be true. Often it depends on how you present your views. You can be perceived either as  a person who simply  has unanswered questions  or as an apostate who may want to draw disciples after yourself, or something in between. 

Let's go surfing now - everyone is learning how - come on and safari with meeee -

I can up vote my own comments too!! Look!! Maybe I will post a bikini shot of myself next! 

I have the most information on him than any living person. Yet even I can say almost nothing as to his personality. A few deeds remain, that is all.
To me it indicates the futility of this system. When one dies, they are very soon forgotten.

I like him in his new role.
He (and his) is the 'messenger preparing the way.' Like the hazardous waste crew that reclaim the land so that it can be rebuilt upon. Russell is the garbageman, carting hellfire and Trinity out to the trash so that builders can later build.
One thing I like about this forum - there are some things I don't like - is that you get to weigh in on progressive things. The Watchtowere magazine itself does that, as do the meetings. They don't go on and on about how we know Jesus died on a stake and not a cross. It is trash discarded 100 years ago. Bethel will repeat it now and then for reminders' sake, but they barely notice it otherwise. You don't attach a note for Waste Management explaining why you have discarded the trash. They know why. Meanwhile,  you occupy yourself to what is not trash.
For some reason, JWs online go in for the baby food, attempting to prove that the trash really is trash. I don't know why they do that. Maybe two reasons. 1.) Witnesses online are not typical. The typical ones busy themselves in face-to-face interaction, which is more straightforward and thus productive, and 2.) it is not wrong to explain the trash to persons not of us who don't know it is trash. Even so, rightly or wrongly, I think most in the world have 'moved on' and are more receptive to items such as sovereignty and relative authority. 
Besides, he had to be demoted. Just look at that beard!

AI translations are always choppy, often poor. Smart though scientists may be, they cannot outdo Jehovah's 'handiwork' at Nimrod's DIY project.

We do  what  we  can....   no  other  possibility,  sorry

AI translations are always choppy, often poor. Smart though scientists may be, they cannot outdo Jehovah's 'handiwork' at Nimrod's DIY project.

You mean trail of course...
Does that mean I never get top prize again?

If you don't get what I mean it is because I did not take enough time to read you. It is my fault. Sorry.
 
They are not 'new stories' when initially 'spun.' It's the insinuation of deceit that disturbs me and the expectation of silky smoothness that strikes me as naive.  I see no reason to think they are not peering ahead absolutely the best they can, and that God allows it. The errors of those who took the lead in the first century would certainly suggest he does.
To some extent they are the same thing. If God is worth his salt, he provides capable human leadership. How would you feel if the cockpit door swung open and the pilot shouted: "Hey, anybody here know how to fly this thing?"
The other way to look at everything here is to suggest that the nervous nellies ought to get a grip on themselves. When the plane encounters choppy weather and the flight attendants retreat with their refreshment carts so Coke does not splash all over everyone, I fasten my belt as advised and ride out the turbulence without undue concern. I don't reach for the flotation seat cover.