TrueTomHarley

In the sequel, Dorothy follows the yellow brick road as instructed. ‘Ah crap!’ she says at movie’s end. ‘California!’

I also think this is much bigger than most people know. On a recent trip to California I visited a brother who had been involved in many of the scholarly efforts with people like Greg Stafford and many of the names that Juan Rivera mentioned some time ago. In fact, I had to double-check that this brother was not using the name "Juan Rivera" here on this forum. Years ago, a few of these names had contacts going up to HQ (Bethel), although HQ began cracking down (again) on any further scholarly groups, and finally was able to effectively get rid of them. This crackdown had also been tried in the early 1980's for obvious reasons too.
Maybe the WTS was right to crack down because, when I met with this brother in California, he listed so many of the names of all these brothers who had finally left the Witnesses, including more famous names like Rolf Furuli and Greg Stafford, and even a scholarly member of the late 1980's Writing Dept, kicked out of Writing, but possibly still a JW as far as he knew. 
I might be wrong, but I think sunlight is still the best disinfectant. People who are curious enough to go venture online "on their own" are going to hear all these things sooner or later anyway, so why not prepare them. Even when someone mentions Ray Franz' books, we can say:
"Imagine, Ray Franz already knew firsthand about all of that stuff he reports and yet he still did his best to stay within the brotherhood, the organization. Even after he resigned from the Governing Body, and was no longer allowed to be an elder, he STILL tried his best to remain a member in good standing with  his congregation in Alabama."  
Going around saying these things never happened, or that they are all lies doesn't help. In fact, it makes things worse for those who end up believing that and trying to defend the WTS against what turns out to be true. We end up looking uninformed, or haughty, naive, or worse yet, like liars ourselves.

I got into some trouble with this post on FB. Several who use Zoom a lot were indignant, thinking I was calling them luke-warm Christians or worse. One, who has always been a pal, proceeded to tell me off on no uncertain terms.
Of course, it is my own fault, as @George88 pointed out. Had I made clear from the beginning that the opening question was not mine, it would not have happened. I told this brother that 
“I wasn’t speaking at all about you or any of the situations you mention. I should have stated—and would have were I to do it again—that the Question about ‘boring meetings’ is not mine, but was taken off a social media site (Quora) that pitches out questions for anyone to answer. I decided to answer it, and so the next three paragraphs are mine, but not the question itself. It may be the question was not written by a current Witness at all, but a former one. There are some in that population that openly boast of being PIMO, with the eventual ‘goal’ of being POMO (physically out/mentally out). Many of the friends have never even heard of that terminology, but it is sort of a modern-day ‘Demas has forsaken me because he loved the present system of things.’ It is among the reason that our numbers have been stuck around 8 million for many years now, barely growing at all. I wasn’t in any way speaking of ones like you.”
upon which, he made a graceful reply and all is well again.
On the one hand, I was heartened that so many black screens chewed me out, taking umbrage that I should think them PIMO. On the other, I was disheartened that so many had never even heard of the term—not the term itself, really, but the phenomenon. Alas, it does kind of smack (in the case of those who are shepherds) of not knowing the appearance of the flock.
 

I think some do indeed live under a rock. Plus the org. of course would never say anything negative about our numbers* (and why should they). It is only those who are in positions where they have to know i.e. elders connected to Bethel branches. One elder and his wife told me a few years or so ago that hundreds are leaving the truth. This was before the pandemic. Now things must be even worse as the pandemic made "fading" easier. Personally I do not know anyone in our congregation who has faded like this but I do have reports from friends. Actually that is a lie, I do know of one who is POMO now. I wish I could have a heart to heart with him, but I am supposed to not know why he left, and I am not that close with his wife. I only found out from his MIL that he had been talking with apostates....
The elder and his wife I mentioned above did make a point of saying that the online presence of opposers is playing a big role in one's leaving....
Over all, our congregation is pretty solid, as far as I know. But all it takes is some disappointment in the org. or misunderstanding and then reading stuff on line ...
*I don't know how others mid week part on the annual service report went but ours talked about growth on some obscure islands and two born in young people getting baptized. Then we had 4 experiences which were more about how to take the opportunity to talk to people informally. But there were no results, at  least not yet. (But that's OK because whatever we say may stick and re surface during the GT). 
As for the actuall annual report numbers, has anyone really looked at them and compared them with last year? I haven't. Maybe JWI? 

Al Kapp, the cartoonist, stuck to traditional ‘follow the flag’ values. He didn’t think much of the young people protesting, and lampooned them with the group, S.W.I.N.E. (Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything) 
He would appear on campus and tell them off. One of the protesting youths asked the pugnacious fellow whether he thought young people held any advantage at all over older ones. ‘Yes, they’re better at carrying luggage,’ he replied.

I got into some trouble with this post on FB. Several who use Zoom a lot were indignant, thinking I was calling them luke-warm Christians or worse. One, who has always been a pal, proceeded to tell me off on no uncertain terms.
Of course, it is my own fault, as @George88 pointed out. Had I made clear from the beginning that the opening question was not mine, it would not have happened. I told this brother that 
“I wasn’t speaking at all about you or any of the situations you mention. I should have stated—and would have were I to do it again—that the Question about ‘boring meetings’ is not mine, but was taken off a social media site (Quora) that pitches out questions for anyone to answer. I decided to answer it, and so the next three paragraphs are mine, but not the question itself. It may be the question was not written by a current Witness at all, but a former one. There are some in that population that openly boast of being PIMO, with the eventual ‘goal’ of being POMO (physically out/mentally out). Many of the friends have never even heard of that terminology, but it is sort of a modern-day ‘Demas has forsaken me because he loved the present system of things.’ It is among the reason that our numbers have been stuck around 8 million for many years now, barely growing at all. I wasn’t in any way speaking of ones like you.”
upon which, he made a graceful reply and all is well again.
On the one hand, I was heartened that so many black screens chewed me out, taking umbrage that I should think them PIMO. On the other, I was disheartened that so many had never even heard of the term—not the term itself, really, but the phenomenon. Alas, it does kind of smack (in the case of those who are shepherds) of not knowing the appearance of the flock.
 

Al Kapp, the cartoonist, stuck to traditional ‘follow the flag’ values. He didn’t think much of the young people protesting, and lampooned them with the group, S.W.I.N.E. (Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything) 
He would appear on campus and tell them off. One of the protesting youths asked the pugnacious fellow whether he thought young people held any advantage at all over older ones. ‘Yes, they’re better at carrying luggage,’ he replied.

I got into some trouble with this post on FB. Several who use Zoom a lot were indignant, thinking I was calling them luke-warm Christians or worse. One, who has always been a pal, proceeded to tell me off on no uncertain terms.
Of course, it is my own fault, as @George88 pointed out. Had I made clear from the beginning that the opening question was not mine, it would not have happened. I told this brother that 
“I wasn’t speaking at all about you or any of the situations you mention. I should have stated—and would have were I to do it again—that the Question about ‘boring meetings’ is not mine, but was taken off a social media site (Quora) that pitches out questions for anyone to answer. I decided to answer it, and so the next three paragraphs are mine, but not the question itself. It may be the question was not written by a current Witness at all, but a former one. There are some in that population that openly boast of being PIMO, with the eventual ‘goal’ of being POMO (physically out/mentally out). Many of the friends have never even heard of that terminology, but it is sort of a modern-day ‘Demas has forsaken me because he loved the present system of things.’ It is among the reason that our numbers have been stuck around 8 million for many years now, barely growing at all. I wasn’t in any way speaking of ones like you.”
upon which, he made a graceful reply and all is well again.
On the one hand, I was heartened that so many black screens chewed me out, taking umbrage that I should think them PIMO. On the other, I was disheartened that so many had never even heard of the term—not the term itself, really, but the phenomenon. Alas, it does kind of smack (in the case of those who are shepherds) of not knowing the appearance of the flock.
 

Yeah, I think my vagus nerve when haywire for a time. Call it a nervous breakdown, of which the best way to describe it is to being stuck in that ‘fight or flight’ moment of unease for 4 straight years, during which there was not a night I slept more than 4 hours. During that time, my blog disappeared; you know I am ill if my blog disappears. I credit the truth for overcoming this breakdown—not the truth in itself or I would not have succumbed in the first place, but for providing the solid foundation upon which to recover. The disorder runs in the family, and my mother and grandmother both fared worse than me, having never recovered once struck.
Now why go public with this, which I have not done yet in anything more than hints?
[Almost] no man has ever had greater love than this: that he should bear his soul for his buddy @George88. Several times in the past, George has said things like:
“While I do not feel the need to disclose the specifics, as there may be individuals here who lack empathy and would make light of my experiences while showing sympathy towards others like a coward would, the impact of these experiences has nonetheless been truly traumatic.”
I suggest you come out with them. You do not lesson yourself when you do that. You gain the upper hand. Just like how Paul came to say that he would not lead off with his strengths; he would rather lead off with his weaknesses, because in serving through those the Lord was glorified. People may be more magnanimous than you suppose. If anyone makes light of your experiences, they reveal more about themselves than about you.
This is because, apart from Alphonse, who does seem to like you, you give nothing of yourself. Worse, there is usually a tone of ‘rebuke from superiority’ in your comments, which brings out the best in no one. Giving of oneself is necessary to establish the human connection so that ones may feel inclined to bond with you. You don’t do it. You should. It would aid you to get past this problem you perceive, like Rodney Dangerfield, of getting no respect.
So I am showing you the way. Got any specifics more debilitating than mine? Out with them. It may help smooth relations with your fellows online, and possibly everywhere else. Moreover, in so baring my previous woes, I am expressing the confidence that you will not try to use such against me. If I am wrong in that, then I will offer you another lesson in how to cope with ill talk. But I am confident the need for this will not arise. You may feel as privileged, George, as the woman at the well—excepting only that she learned for the first time that her companion was the Messiah, whereas you have learned for the first time that your companion is a fellow yo-yo with prior issues.
When you return from enormous personal trial, it is a little like being raised from the dead. You know a little of how Job felt. It only benefits you going forward.

Al Kapp, the cartoonist, stuck to traditional ‘follow the flag’ values. He didn’t think much of the young people protesting, and lampooned them with the group, S.W.I.N.E. (Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything) 
He would appear on campus and tell them off. One of the protesting youths asked the pugnacious fellow whether he thought young people held any advantage at all over older ones. ‘Yes, they’re better at carrying luggage,’ he replied.

Nonetheless, from this point on, I strapping on a guitar when preaching among the young.

Nonetheless, from this point on, I strapping on a guitar when preaching among the young.

Nonetheless, from this point on, I strapping on a guitar when preaching among the young.

Yeah, I suppose you’re right. I probably should have clarified from the start that it was a question encountered on social media, not my own. I’ll do that should there be any reincarnations.

😂
😂
Yes, not bad, and and most of them were somewhat modestly dressed.
 
If you read the comments left by people it seems like they're not really interested in who Jehovah really is. Most lump him together with God and Jesus, perhaps the new Trinity? And they're tight with them all.
We have a mega church like this close to us and it's packed (you can tell by the huge parking lots being full). At Christmas time they bring in live nativity animals. At other times they have concerts and make business deals. But they're all baptized in Jesus. It makes me wonder what will happen to churches like this when supposedly the governments shut them down. Will they even be able to? And the question is why would they? Most churches like this are also tight with senators.

I caught some flak on Facebook over the post, similar to yours, as though I was suggesting any black screen is a PIMO. I wasn’t. One person confessed to a certain form of social phobia but was very much in the program, saying how much better Zoom was than the old phone lines. To him, I said,
“It all works. Lots of reasons to prefer Zoom. I didn’t mean this to be a judgmental post. I just agree that among the constant black screen no-shows there are probably some who have tired of the whole program but don’t want others to think so. I didn’t mean to suggest it was anyone’s duty to figure out who was who.”
Another thought it not good to be suspicious of one’s brothers. I replied, “This is well-stated, [in both cases, I addressed them by name]. Suspicion was not what I meant to encourage. ‘Open to the possibility’ was more my point. And even when the latter is the case, that doesn’t mean a person won’t benefit from a hand of friendship. Thanks for commenting as you have.”
Two persons didn’t know what PIMO was, which I don’t think is very healthy—a little like the Russian Supreme Court refusing to look at what everyone else had seen, video-recorded evidence of incriminating material being planted by authorities. Of course, that is not to blame those friends. You’ll never hear the term PIMO at the Kingdom Hall or via the literature. It hampers people to be so uninformed about what large swaths of others are up to.
I think some were confused by the question itself. I took it off Quora, a social media site which has (I think) taken to generating many ridiculous questions about JWs (though, this wasn’t one of them) through AI, (sigh—which some brothers appear to take as though sincere questions from interested persons)
Yeah, I know the feeling. The trouble is, you almost can’t, since we are primed to overreact. 
I see you don’t keep up with modern science. I believe several genders have been discovered in which they do just that.
 
Hey, this is pretty good. And isn’t that Many Miles 8 rows back, 4th from the left? 
I hope the brothers don’t harrumph too much over it. It’s not like they could endorse it, but it is possible to say, ‘You know, there’s a place to learn more about this Jehovah.’ What to one person is not being swept along by the fads and vagaries of men is to another just being a bunch of fuddy-daddies.

I caught some flak on Facebook over the post, similar to yours, as though I was suggesting any black screen is a PIMO. I wasn’t. One person confessed to a certain form of social phobia but was very much in the program, saying how much better Zoom was than the old phone lines. To him, I said,
“It all works. Lots of reasons to prefer Zoom. I didn’t mean this to be a judgmental post. I just agree that among the constant black screen no-shows there are probably some who have tired of the whole program but don’t want others to think so. I didn’t mean to suggest it was anyone’s duty to figure out who was who.”
Another thought it not good to be suspicious of one’s brothers. I replied, “This is well-stated, [in both cases, I addressed them by name]. Suspicion was not what I meant to encourage. ‘Open to the possibility’ was more my point. And even when the latter is the case, that doesn’t mean a person won’t benefit from a hand of friendship. Thanks for commenting as you have.”
Two persons didn’t know what PIMO was, which I don’t think is very healthy—a little like the Russian Supreme Court refusing to look at what everyone else had seen, video-recorded evidence of incriminating material being planted by authorities. Of course, that is not to blame those friends. You’ll never hear the term PIMO at the Kingdom Hall or via the literature. It hampers people to be so uninformed about what large swaths of others are up to.
I think some were confused by the question itself. I took it off Quora, a social media site which has (I think) taken to generating many ridiculous questions about JWs (though, this wasn’t one of them) through AI, (sigh—which some brothers appear to take as though sincere questions from interested persons)
Yeah, I know the feeling. The trouble is, you almost can’t, since we are primed to overreact. 
I see you don’t keep up with modern science. I believe several genders have been discovered in which they do just that.
 
Hey, this is pretty good. And isn’t that Many Miles 8 rows back, 4th from the left? 
I hope the brothers don’t harrumph too much over it. It’s not like they could endorse it, but it is possible to say, ‘You know, there’s a place to learn more about this Jehovah.’ What to one person is not being swept along by the fads and vagaries of men is to another just being a bunch of fuddy-daddies.

Q: How much credit do PIMO Jehovah’s Witnesses owe to Zoom for freeing them from attending boring meetings at the Kingdom Hall?
Probably quite a bit, though simply fading would accomplish the same goal, minus the certain element of hypocrisy. Fading works fine for those who wish to leave. As long as one doesn’t go publicly reviling, robbing banks, or killing people, one is fine.
A consistent blackened screen without any participation always suggests to me PIMO as a possibility, save for obvious cases of infirmity, distance, hardship, etc. Nor is anyone fooled in the long run. Witnesses bond so readily with their fellow believers, even from around the world, because 2/3 of what they have in common is their spirituality/love of God. Begin to indicate that 2/3 is not very important to you, and in time relationships, even friendships, will shift.
I mean, I don’t think those meetings are boring at all, but if I did, I not only wouldn’t go but I also wouldn’t use Zoom in an attempt to deceive others into thinking I was. I like to think I have some backbone.

Q: How much credit do PIMO Jehovah’s Witnesses owe to Zoom for freeing them from attending boring meetings at the Kingdom Hall?
Probably quite a bit, though simply fading would accomplish the same goal, minus the certain element of hypocrisy. Fading works fine for those who wish to leave. As long as one doesn’t go publicly reviling, robbing banks, or killing people, one is fine.
A consistent blackened screen without any participation always suggests to me PIMO as a possibility, save for obvious cases of infirmity, distance, hardship, etc. Nor is anyone fooled in the long run. Witnesses bond so readily with their fellow believers, even from around the world, because 2/3 of what they have in common is their spirituality/love of God. Begin to indicate that 2/3 is not very important to you, and in time relationships, even friendships, will shift.
I mean, I don’t think those meetings are boring at all, but if I did, I not only wouldn’t go but I also wouldn’t use Zoom in an attempt to deceive others into thinking I was. I like to think I have some backbone.

Judaism was the true religion during Jesus' times. But most Jews did not accept Jesus as the prophesied messiah; hence, the whole nation was rejected by God and replaced with Christianity. This 'new' religion is still based on Judaism sans observance to the Mosaic law. The additional belief is faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice. Ergo, no resignation letter needed.... 😁

So that you can select from this small group of faiths the one comprised of true followers of Christ. If a religious group is not hated, it is disqualified from consideration, since the Bible repeatedly says that true Christians will be hated. For example: 
If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. (John 15:19)

Now if Tucker had asked Putin whether Moscow girls really do make him sing and shout, then we’d have something to hang our hats on.

So that you can select from this small group of faiths the one comprised of true followers of Christ. If a religious group is not hated, it is disqualified from consideration, since the Bible repeatedly says that true Christians will be hated. For example: 
If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. (John 15:19)

Why do I want to attach a laughing emoji to this but somehow feel I shouldn’t?

If it is Rutherford’s coup and much too expensive are you sure it is not really Perrson’s coup?