24 YEAR OLD BETHELITE WOMAN RECENTLY DISFELLOWSHIPPED FOR APOSTASY COMMITS SUICIDE!

[Alexa]

Thats a sad thing suicide but she is an apostate from Bethel why would she do such a thing? Did she tried to see if theres a life after death?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

5 hours ago, Alexa said:

Thats a sad thing suicide but she is an apostate from Bethel why would she do such a thing? Did she tried to see if theres a life after death?

How are ANY of us to be able to discern that?

OK... I will make something up out of thin air ..

YES.

[Douglas Roberts]

On 7/29/2017 at 10:10 AM, JW Insider said:

So true. It's hard to imagine what kind of "spirituality" can live alongside certain kinds of sin and certain kinds of personalities.

Most people go into the various Bethel branches, at about age 19 and 20, rather naively, and usually just a few short years after their baptism and with an average of more than a year of pioneering.  The statistics favored those who were 'raised in the truth' rather than recent converts. One of the first things we were told, jokingly by Brother Couch and Brother Sydlik in the "welcome speech' is that Bethelites were divided into two groups, "Newbies" and "BAs" (those with a "Bad Attitude). Then we were reminded that this wasn't a joke by Bethelites who had already been there a year or two. The direct implication was that it didn't take long before we would all become jaded.

I went in on the cusp of a changeover from a 4-year commitment to just a 1-year commitment. Those who were serving out the last year or so of a 4-year commitment were supposed to be the worst BAs (although with the changeover, there was no stigma to a 2 or 3 year Bethelite leaving early, as there had been previously). If you went home early prior to that, it was considered the same as a dishonorable discharge from the army. And worse than that, there had just been a dismissal of 50 or more (all at one time) who had been accused of homosexuality. It was right after that that the 1-year commitment was offered, but no one wanted to leave early in the midst of that, for fear of what the congregation back home might think.

On the first day I got to Bethel, my temporary roommate stole a couple hundred dollars from me, as he was just going back home after 4 years. On my last day of Bethel, I discovered that my storage locker, unused for several years, had been broken into and my valuables had been stolen. I never thought to check my storage locker even though Brother Knorr made at least a weekly announcement of Bethelites dismissed for theft over a period of several months.

But all this was very easy to ignore, by just putting your nose to the grindstone and staying busy. As TTH reminds us, it's dirt among diamonds. I found diamonds by the dozen, and would have never focused on the dirt. And of course every diamond itself has imperfections, too. I could not have asked for better assignments at Bethel. I didn't deserve any of them, and I loved it every single day. Even those dark days of 1980 that seemed surreal, didn't change my resolve to continue to just try to be the kind of person who was like those whom I liked to be around. 

As I got a little older I realized that part of helping others stay grounded is to stop keeping everything to myself, and just admit the faults we've lived through. And I think that we can help others even by admitting the specifics (up to a point). The reason is that others who have gone through something unexpected might never guess that others have gone through something similar. It might give them a bit of relief that they are not going crazy or being singled out for mistreatment or just to know that others really can sympathize.

There is always an element of concern over the fact that some are stumbled by dirty laundry, but that's why I've mentioned before that a semi-anonymous discussion forum (for me) is a much better choice than trying to sympathize in the congregation setting. Many of those who are hurt by mistreatment from those they trusted have clearly turned to discussion forums like this one. (Actually, I saw several of that sort on a bigger discussion forum and was terrified for them that they were being eaten alive by a a lot of unruly ex-JWs, proud to call themselves "apostates.")

Rather than fight the noise on that larger forum, I ran across this one, and think, so far, that it has a fair balance, and that even ex-JW and non-JW "opposing" voices are fairly good at self-moderating here. Someday, this forum will probably no longer meet the same standards it meets now and I'll either go back to silence, or go looking around for another outlet. Many won't agree, but I think that sharing openly and honestly is a loving thing to do for those who might be looking for a sympathetic or empathetic ear. That goes for those concerned about issues of justice and issues of doctrine and healthful teaching. I think this is why the Bible reveals the flaws, even of people at the highest levels of responsibility. (Noah, Moses, Jephthah, Saul, David, Solomon, . . . Paul, Peter, James, and John).

I'm sure some are annoyed that not everyone here spends 100% of their time encouraging loyalty to all the long-standing traditions, and bureaucratic processes. Some apparently only want to encourage complete obedience to any and all suggestions from the Governing Body and apparently think anything less is some kind of apostasy. We have congregations for that kind of encouragement. We have meetings where we specifically study the current thinking of the Governing Body and support it through prepared questions and answers and reading of published material. The congregation is no place for open questioning of current doctrines and procedures.

Well put! 

Refining continues and will continue

[Arauna]

The focus is misplaced! Our loyalty is to Jehovah and Jesus only.  If we accept that the slave is being used by Jehovah we will do all in our power to keep our lives free from wrong and cooperate with them and make sure we do not contribute to Jehovah (and the people associated with his name) to be dragged through the mud! ... 

Unfortunately -  We are all (no matter how faithful we think we are) full of deviation (miss the mark ) - this is the reality of life!  If we do not recognize this fact, then we say we have no sin!  Then we do not need the ransom sacrifice. 

MY brother was in prison for the truth as a young man - he did not mention the offenses to me - but he told me that he was disgusted with some bad habits he saw there which are human deviations and take time to get rid of.  When people live in close proximity under stressful conditions these things tend to come to the surface. Seriously wrong things also occurred and people were dis-fellowshipped and other brothers had to avoid them. This created an extremely difficult situation for all. 

To my mind a place like Bethel is not a natural way of living and hence it is only a place for the strong.  One can see the frailty of human deviation and personality defects up-front - and it may come as a shock to the inexperienced person on the road of life. However, some are prepared to make the sacrifice to go and serve there.  However, we make it a kind of prestige thing - which is wrong.  The wish to service is a wonderful motivation but the underlying culture of prestige is wrong.  This demonstrates the quick way in which humans like to put themselves on pedestals or want to think of themselves as the cream of the crop.  Then they are shocked to see and discover feet of clay!  It takes great effort to stay humble because our imperfection makes us always come up with ways to justify ourselves or make us think we are "good". This is why I always avoid giving honor to people who came from Bethel and hate it when I hear others do this.  Often they have a superior attitude which I find telling.  I used to call them the spiritual elite because they act in that sinful way - but have stopped doing that.

We are all - just "people" like everyone else who is NOT serving Jehovah. The only way we are different to others:- we have been privileged to learn the future plans of Jehovah and dedicated ourselves Him and left the most debased of sins.  However, we need to "progress" with the help of the holy spirit.  If we only have a little bit of that spirit or we do not make an effort to ask and receive it and work in harmony with it - then we can soon find ourselves deviating from what is right.  I believe we can only stay in the truth if we have Jehovah's spirit......and some seem to barely make it because they are focusing more on other things - be it personal goals or just the stress of raising a family.

All people are imperfect.  The problem is that we have pink glasses on regarding our brothers when they actually are people who are fighting their own bad inclinations all the time. Yes we expect a high level of change in their lives and would like to think them perfect when they are not.  Two of the anointed in the time of the apostles dropped down dead after they had lied about the properties they had sold.  One anointed person was dis-fellowshipped because he had slept with his mother! ....and others were not condemning it! Some of our brothers who get dis-fellowshipped have committed multiple sins -  not just one - and then to crown it become rebellious when they are corrected! Judas was sinning over a long period of time! before he betrayed him.

I do not want to sound preachy - but we all know this - but we tend to have a blind eye to this.

We have to be very forgiving sometimes - be a bit more like Jehovah - who has seen all the wickedness right throughout mankind's history and that of his people (from ancient times till now).  We do have good examples in the Bible - but many of them also had serious flaws.  So when we see this we know that Jehovah is truly merciful and we keep on because we know that he is aware that we are imperfect flesh. He knows when we are sincere and doing all that is necessary to progress.

So - the expectation that others must be without serious flaw is fundamentally wrong!  

[Srecko Sostar]

On 10/8/2017 at 10:34, Arauna said:

Judas was sinning over a long period of time! before he betrayed him.

Hi. First i have to say how i agree with many of your thoughts in comment you gave. 

I just quote this sentence for reason of one thought came to me. According to WT teachings, each brother should act according to Matt. 18: 15-17.
Perhaps we may find justification for the apostles, why they did not follow this counsel of their teacher regarding Jude. But they were Jews and still were members of the Jewish Community and was obligated to act according to the Law. So, we can put the same question again, "Why they not done something to help Judas to change his steps, or report to Jesus. If Judas was so discreetly doing bad, evil things for years than i can ask, Did no one of apostles have eye to see? Why holy spirit not open their eyes? Why they not take care that their little congregations be holy and clean from such sin? and etc etc.

I just highlight these kind of perception and different angle of looking on Bible report about this event.  In connection to nowadays  practice i JW congregations. 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

Bethel members. I know from first hand information about depressions inside Bethel. Especially female members are affected with such condition. 

In my hometown is branch office. One elder's wife is suicidal, recidivist, she attempted this many times.

Other single sis works in kitchen. Very hard job for her and she was and still is very depressed because of working condition.  I said still is, because have saw her (she is in my ex congregation) on street preaching. Not looking happy or satisfied, but she share "good news" - that is irony. You speaking about bright future but with unhappy face.

One elder, my good friend, hung himself in the age 61. In the basement of building. Wife found him, she just had a feeling how something is wrong that morning.

Young teenage girl cut her veins after elders gave her a lessons on, why she and  her two also under age sisters spend few days on holidays with dfd father.

This happened in this few years, what is in my knowledge. And how many is not known to me?

JWorg is very dangerous spiritual paradise place.   

[Arauna]

@Srecko Sostar  Good to ask questions.  Do you remember how Jehovah warned Cain that he was going to do bad if he did not get control of it?  ( gen 4: 7. If you do well, shall you not be accepted?^[a] But if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. It desires to dominate you, but you must rule over it.” He asked him if he was going to allow this to dominate him.  Cain had no self-control and did exactly that.  So did the direct intervention of the creator stop Cain from going ahead with his vile act?  No.   

Similarly - the Pharisees killed Jesus even though they knew of the many miracles and tried to stop it being talked about by the people.  They also tried to stop his resurrection by posting a guard......they were unrepentant. 

Jehovah is justice - so if he thought that someone could help Judas - surely he would have let someone see it?  Judas could have stopped himself by self control but he went over and beyond his conscience many times in the past. Eventually his devious practices got the better of him.  It is a lesson for us all today.  'Do not think you are standing......'.  So we all need to be just and walk humbly with Jehovah - knowing our own limitations and weaknesses.

Thankfully - in the end Jehovah is justice - and he will never let anyone go if there is a possibility that they could turn their life around..... even those in death.  He will give all a resurrection who may change - so there is hope.... we are not without hope - especially those who have acted rashly and stupidly because of inexperience or youth. 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 11/17/2017 at 19:48, Srecko Sostar said:

Other single sis works in kitchen. Very hard job for her and she was and still is very depressed because of working condition.  I said still is, because have saw her (she is in my ex congregation) on street preaching. Not looking happy or satisfied, but she share "good news" - that is irony. You speaking about bright future but with unhappy face.

Just to update this information. She worked in Bethel kitchen before "perestroika". After global reduce of Bethel workers she went to pioneer service. So i supposed how she was as pioneer preacher that day when i saw her. 

[TrueTomHarley]

On 11/17/2017 at 1:48 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

One elder, my good friend, hung himself in the age 61. In the basement of building. Wife found him, she just had a feeling how something is wrong that morning.

@JW Insider can top your experience any day with one he knows about. I half fear that he will.

Suicides happen. They are tragic. These days in the greater world they have become all the rage among the young, who do not buy the rosy reports enthusiasts of this system are trying to sell them. Surely there can be no greater condemnation of this world than the stampede among the young to leave it.

On 11/17/2017 at 1:48 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

but she share "good news" - that is irony. You speaking about bright future but with unhappy face.

It is better than an idiot sharing the dismal news of this system of things with a happy face.

[Matthew9969]

Just curious and please forgive me if this is a morbid question to some, did anyone ever commit suicide while working at Bethel?

[Arauna]

I do not know.  But I would comment that a person who has certain problems can commit suicide wherever they are and as soon as the right circumstances appear.  It does not matter what the religion and the people around one.

I have read quite extensively about physical issues that can contribute to mental issues.  We all know that continuous stress, as an adult or  a child, can change the chemistry of the body.  There is enough evidence to show that chemical imbalances can trigger schizophrenia, is responsible for autism and many more conditions that can relate to mental illness.

There is a doctor who healed her child from severe autism by replenishing the bodies' flora' - and with this I mean the good bacteria that was non-existent.  There are many hormones produced in the intestines that rely on good bacteria in the intestines.  (They found a shortage of serotonin in schizophrenia.)  Over use of antibiotics and chemicals in water etc... has decimated many people's first line of defense regarding mental and physical health in the intestines. No wonder the digestive system has been called the 'second brain'.  Pollution and many other factors are starting to surface as major contributing factors to mental illnesses.  I honestly believe that mental illness is not just a psychological disease but has its origins in the imbalance of chemicals/hormones in the body. 

Of course, not all mental illness comes from physical diseases as there are other contributing phenomena.  People who dabble in satanism and drugs (which can cause schizophrenia) or other forms of entertainment /practices forbidden by God, know that they are treading a fine line where their conscience can be severely damaged as well.  So, what we expose ourselves to mentally of course will also affect us spiritually and we can lose our spiritual balance if we reject the guidelines of Jehovah.

But we do know that Jehovah is a just god - and he knows us all intimately.  We cannot bamboozle him - only ourselves.... So he is the final judge of all and he will take all things into consideration. Our knowledge is very limited - and he knows this - for sure!

It has been found that people who commit suicide can be impulsive and lose sight of reality...temporarily. It is this impulsive streak which has contributed to many young people's deaths by their own hand - similar to risk taking.  They are not yet mature to recognize this in themselves. (Serotonin is known to give calmness to a person...)

[TrueTomHarley]

17 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Just curious and please forgive me if this is a morbid question to some, did anyone ever commit suicide while working at Bethel?

What do you plan to do with this information you are just curious about?