24 YEAR OLD BETHELITE WOMAN RECENTLY DISFELLOWSHIPPED FOR APOSTASY COMMITS SUICIDE!

[JW Insider]

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

@JW Insider can top your experience any day with one he knows about. I half fear that he will.

I know of only about 7 suicides that provide some kind of instruction or lesson, in some way:

• (Judges 9:54) He [Abimelech] quickly called the attendant bearing his weapons and said to him: “Draw your sword and put me to death, so that they may not say about me, ‘A woman killed him.’” So his attendant ran him through, and he died.

• (Judges 16:30) Samson called out: “Let me die with the Phi·lisʹtines!” Then he pushed with all his might, and the house fell on the lords and all the people in it. So he killed more at his death than he had killed during his life.

• (1 Samuel 31:4) Then Saul said to his armor-bearer: “Draw your sword and run me through with it, so that these uncircumcised men may not come and run me through and deal ruthlessly with me.” But his armor-bearer was unwilling, because he was very much afraid. So Saul took the sword and fell on it.

• (1 Samuel 31:5) When his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he too fell on his own sword and died with him.

• (2 Samuel 17:23) When A·hithʹo·phel saw that his advice had not been acted on, he saddled a donkey and went to his house in his hometown. After he gave instructions to his household, he hanged himself. . . .

• (1 Kings 16:18) When Zimʹri saw that the city had been captured, he went into the fortified tower of the king’s house and burned the house down over himself, and he died.

• (Acts 1:18) This very man, therefore, purchased a field with the wages for unrighteousness, and falling headfirst, his body burst open and all his insides spilled out.  (Matthew 27:5) . . .Then he went off and hanged himself.

18 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Just curious and please forgive me if this is a morbid question to some, did anyone ever commit suicide while working at Bethel?

I'm not sure what lesson could be learned from knowing. I knew about two persons who committed suicide while I was there and a couple other suicides just before and after. The long-time factory overseer, Brother Wheelock, was the most well-known. I have not tried to track whether there were others, or even whether the suicide mentioned in the original post is true.

However, even if rates had been higher than usual, and I don't know that they were, it would not mean that we have a dangerous spiritual paradise as @Srecko Sostar posited. Brother Couch once suggested that too many congregations were purposely sending their emotionally disturbed young brothers in the hopes that Bethel would cure them.  I have heard an elder recommend that we encourage a young brother who was considered to be homosexual to apply to Bethel because, supposedly, he would be "cured" just by being that close to the center of Jehovah's holy spirit. I cringed, but said that Bethel was not likely the right environment for such a brother.

 

[Arauna]

I agree - Bethel will not cure people who already have problems.... Immature to think that.

However, some of the examples mentioned above was a way out - to not face severe physical torture at the hands of enemies..... and also pride.  I guess this can also be a motivation today but young people are usually motivated by other reasons.

I knew of one handsome young man who was in love with a worldly girl at school and for some reason became depressed.  He impulsively committed suicide and ruined his poor mothers life.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

https://philbarbey.jimdo.com/jws-rolf-furuli/

This study shows that JWs have about a THIRD of the mental illness rate of the general population, and I would suspect that that would equate to about a THIRD of the suicides of the general population.    Just a guess ... NO MORE.

I am of the very considered opinion that just in the case of King Saul, Sampson, and Jesus ... by willingly walking into a known death trap ... that these suicides are NOT counted as self murder by Jehovah God., any more that soldiers who willingly volunteer for "suicide missions" for some greater good would be considered to have murdered themselves.

Consumed with grief and  a broken heart and many tears, I have had to execute by proxy many of my dogs over the years, and lament when "my time comes" .... and it will ... that there will be  no one to show me that kindness.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

58 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

This study shows that JWs have about a THIRD of the mental illness rate of the general population, and I would suspect that that would equate to about a THIRD of the suicides of the general population.

Brilliant, James.

They are a quarter of a percent of the U.S. population, yet they account for one third of all suicides! There may be something to your observation, though. Just Saturday as I was entering the assembly hall, I had to step over ten dead bodies.

I mean, some viewpoints are too stupid to countenance.

[Anna]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

https://philbarbey.jimdo.com/jws-rolf-furuli/

 

 

Rolf Furuli?

[JW Insider]

1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I mean, some viewpoints are too stupid to countenance.

Some would think, that by purposefully misunderstanding the summary of the study JTR quoted, that you are setting up your own sidekick routine, with the punchline prepared in the part I just requoted.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

This study shows that JWs have about a THIRD of the mental illness rate of the general population, and I would suspect that that would equate to about a THIRD of the suicides of the general population.    Just a guess ... NO MORE.

I think that you are right in that the purpose of this study by Furuli was intended to show that JWs have only a third the mental illness based on the rate of the general population, and extrapolating, only approximately only a third of the suicide rate of the generation population. From what I know about Furuli, however, I wouldn't trust his numbers in the slightest. Also, Norway has privacy laws and practices that would only allow a health care professional to access data about medications and psychological treatment. Furuli is not a health care professional. If Bergen claims that such health issues are only 10% to 16% higher in JWs than the general population, I would not think this is so surprising in the time period that he tried to measure. Mental illness is more of a stigma among those who place a lower value on secular education. Those who place a higher value on secular education begin to understand that mental illness should carry no more stigma than intestinal illness. If there is a stigma, then it supposedly reflects badly on the reputation of the organization to admit it and therefore many JWs have gone untreated. I dare say that most of us are aware of such cases.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

27 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Brilliant, James.

They are a quarter of a percent of the U.S. population, yet they account for one third of all suicides! There may be something to your observation, though. Just Saturday as I was entering the assembly hall, I had to step over ten dead bodies.

I mean, some viewpoints are too stupid to countenance.

It is clear, TTH that your understanding of statistics is that it has something to do with numbers, and not Lego blocks in the hallway at night, as you have completely misconstrued what I stated ..... as usual.

It seems clear to me, now that the absurd extrapolations you make are the lenses you read through., and that to misunderstand EVERYTHING means you have a learning disability of some sort, predominately a lack of reading comprehension.

As a last resort, follow the link I posted ... perhaps you just go insane when you read anything that Ah has written.

I have that effect on many people.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

4 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Some would think, that by purposefully misunderstanding the summary of the study JTR quoted, that you are setting up your own sidekick routine, with the punchline prepared in the part I just requoted.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

This study shows that JWs have about a THIRD of the mental illness rate of the general population, and I would suspect that that would equate to about a THIRD of the suicides of the general population.    Just a guess ... NO MORE.

I addressed only his remarks, which are the dumbest remarks I have heard even from him.

I did not follow the link, for I already seen a YouTube of Fureli refuting the perception and I imagined JTR was misrepresenting it. Unfortunately, I was raised with Sesame Street and I must have whiz-bang action or else I get bored. The YouTube was a bit plodding and I only scratched the surface before quitting. (a transcript I would read, if JTR made one available. A dull video simply takes too much time, which at the moment, I do not have. maybe later I will.) 

But now I see that the link is to something purporting to be academic. It may even be that the YouTube I saw was Fureli's attempt to clear up misconceptions from this report. At any rate, I saw enough of the YouTube to see that Fureli meant to speak in defense of the faith and not try to undercut it. 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

9 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It is clear, TTH that your understanding of statistics is that it has something to do with numbers, and not Lego blocks in the hallway at night, as you have completely misconstrued what I stated

I remarked only on what you actually said. Didn't you say once that you had been an engineer? With such command of numbers - one third of all suicides from a group that represents .25 of the population! - if you were given any engineering responsibility in your city, there will not be found therein a single toilet that flushes.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

 

I remarked only on what you actually said. Didn't you say once that you had been an engineer? With such command of numbers - one third of all suicides from a group that represents .25 of the population!

 

There is nothing anyone can do for you, TTH, when you determinedly misconstrue what is being said, and cannot visualize what MUST be the case, when people don't use puppets and crayons to explain things to you.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

 

.... I addressed only his remarks, which are the dumbest remarks I have heard even from him.

I did not follow the link....

 

I felt sorry for a man who had no shoes ... until I met a man who had no feet.

I felt sorry for a man who could not read ... until I met a man who WOULD NOT READ.

.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

(Judges 9:54) He [Abimelech

Judges 16:30) Samson

(1 Samuel 31:4) Then Saul

 

i would not consider this as suicide.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

I knew of one handsome young man who was in love with a worldly girl at school and for some reason became depressed.

Based only on this facts you provide - He is JW, She is "worldly" = Love is forbidden among this two person according to WT. So yes, as to my logic this proved "spiritual paradise" seems dangerous.