Relations between different numbers and their symbolic meaning regarding to the number 144000

[Guest Kurt]

Relations between different numbers and their symbolic meaning regarding to the number 144000 - PDF

 

[The Librarian]

Thanks Kurt!

See also:

 

[JW Insider]

On 7/17/2016 at 2:19 PM, Kurt said:

Relations between different numbers and their symbolic meaning regarding to the number 144000 - PDF

I don't really get what this is or what it "proves."

You can do almost anything you want with numbers by making up "meanings" behind the factors that make up the number.

In fact, just for fun, notice that 144,000 divides evenly by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10. So the only digit that isn't a perfect factor of 144,000 is 7. Therefore 7 must mean imperfection. (But it doesn't, of course.)

Also, there are some mistaken ideas in the pdf. These things are interesting, and sometimes fun, but you can't really ever find a consistent meaning using numerology, no matter how tempting.

[Evacuated]

On 7/22/2016 at 13:27, JW Insider said:

I don't really get what this is or what it "proves."

I agree with this statement.

If anyone wants a really meaty example of attempting to use numerology to underpin the Bible's authenticity, try Ivan Panin's work. I would be interested in anyone's response to the paper attached  below.  

Ivan Panin.pdf

[JW Insider]

http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/panin_mark.html

I think the link provides a good part of the answer.

 

Reminds me of a time when I wasted a few hours writing a program that showed that the so-called "Bible Codes" in the Hebrew Scriptures were not useful in showing that Jesus would be the Messiah, or that Yitzhak Rabin would be assassinated. Turns out you can feed any official version of the Masoretic Text or Dead Sea Scrolls text into a "Bible Code" program and ALSO prove --in the exact same way-- that Jehovah is Satan, God is the Devil, Jesus is Satan, Christ is the Devil, etc. Of course all of these ones are ignored and only the "good" examples are used.

Similarly, atheists (who have more at stake in this argument) have shown that Panin's methods can also prove that all the works of Edgar Allen Poe are inspired. Just one example is the portion of Mark that the 2013 Revised NWT finally removed. It's discussed in the link that I put at the top of this post. It shows how Panin merely adjusted whatever was necessary to make the numbers work.

Part of the work on Matthew might be a bit more complex, because Matthew ( according to the Aid Book and the 9/1/1970 Watchtower - Question From Readers) was likely creating a mnemonic in chapter 1 to help readers remember the basic structure of the sets of 14 generations. These are NOT the same names found in the Hebrew text, and not even the same names found in all different versions of the LXX.

 

 

 

 

[JW Insider]

Brothers Russell, Rutherford and Fred Franz were big on this kind of numerology, too. But when you look closely, all of their examples, too, reveal a similar "fudging" of numbers to make these ideas work. The 59th Gilead Graduation speech is the one where Fred Franz used his time slot to "condemn" the idea of a decision-making "Governing Body" and spoke out even against "committees"  and indicated that we are opposing the arrangement of Jesus if we support a Jerusalem-council-like "governing body."

But what is often missed from this speech is the fact that Brother Franz also incorporated just a small bit of numerology to add to the feeling of significance for the year 1975. Here is the relevant portion of the transcript below. Notice how he first ties the 59th Gilead class to the 60th so that he can speak about how amazing it was that the 59th class was the first one that reached the 60th century since man was created, so that the 60th class would start in the first year of the 7th millennium, or the beginning of the 61st century since Adam. 

To Brother Franz, even though he was technically off by one from the common perspective, he was still able to speak of the numerical coincidence as "surprising, startling, happifying" and "grand."