Is the Governing body still "spirit directed"?

[Space Merchant]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

well, finally you agree with me that he in fact told a lie. :)) thanks

That is ironic, I could have sworn I said this before to you and you said something entirely different, take a good read at the other page and read it til you reach this point. Just know what you assumed to have been guiding Abraham and you making no mention of Abraham's as well as Sarah's reasoning.

Alas poor, Screcko Sostar, this time you didn't bother to clean the bread crumbs you left behind when everyone can see it and now see what you say now, therefore, you proven my point over and over and over again, and will continue to do the same every time and it goes all the way back to what you said to @Gone Away and what he addressed to you. Now that is what they say, the cookie crumbles, and next time don't make it obvious.

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

hehe?, but politicians is in group of those who belong to "secular authority" about which Bible spoke how Christian must obey (Romans book) so if you consider self as Christian you should to care about what they have to say, at least to some level. As brief example of that is when Joseph and Mary went to Bethlehem in order to obey "secular authority" command. In their case we see how they care about "politicians" :)) and what they say.

And here we go with this again, my politician comment was in regards to your so called Health Minister. I do not trust politicians for a variety of reasons and a great deal of experience. But you are incapable of knowing what I know because you are not the type of person to look into such things, let alone can stomach the things I see and know to which at this point do not faze me, but still brings concern.

But allow me to enlighten you:

Caesar Augustus, also Octavius, was the 1st Emperor of the Roman Empire. His full name, Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus (or either Octavius or Octavian). Around 2 B.C.E. a decree was issued by Caeser Augustus, and this decree is in regards that all were to be registered, which resulted in the people traveling there, each of his or her own city is to be in the system they had back then.

This decree allowed Jesus to be born in Bethlehem in, which is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. However, other than the registration itself, Caesar Augustus did very little to nothing with with local government and law. Furthermore, for his policy continued after his death, which enabled The Jewish Sanhedrin ability and or powers for some sort of control. This imperial leniency gave the people less provocation to rebel and we all know what happens to rebels.

Note: Herod was somewhat of a Politician also, what do you think he'd do to Jesus and his parents only for  them to be warned by an Angel of God to literally make haste in a whole other direction. Surely Mary and Joseph were not going to indirectly hand over a baby, born in Bethlehem to a mad man.

Slightly off topic to response,

But surely Caesar's decree didn't go after people in Las Vegas who witnessed and survived, only to be killed again by those who work for politicians, one by one they were kill and sometimes by the two until they stop talking about the shooting, nor did Caesar kill children, take their bodies, sell it to Al-Qaeda to bring forth forced propaganda in order to provoke their enemy to attack another nation to cause an all our war of 5 nations vs. another 5 nations, one of which who was the target by a terrorist group. All this because of politicians and you expect me to trust them? And in my cause, they are not too keep of people of a specific race, and or color and we know what happens when the politicians say and or do things, mainly force people into famine and poverty and I do not know if you ever been to America, but you can see the actions of politicians when it comes to violence and famine, what you do not here is what they do to homeless people, where they bring them and what they do to them, it is as grim as what the Nazi's have done to the Jews and no one speaks of the matter. Let's not forget children to young adults being taken for their blood and organs, there was a case where a teen was found with no organs, but newspapers in his stomach. There is a lot of things in regards to the Dark Web and the shadow government of which really cannot be spoke that much here, mainly in full detail, so I stand true to what I say: I do not care about politicians, nor do I trust them, and knowing what I know you will end up as the same, which is the case with millions of people. Granted this is around the world, most likely your country is effect as is all of each to his own nation.

Surely if Mary and Joseph were alive today, they'd be taken, and disappear for those in the shadows come to realize who they are, and they will end up like Rich and Ebrewein and many, many others - for that is how grave things are.

Lastly, sure they did so for such was part of prophecy regarding Bethlehem, and it is silly for you to even mention Mary and Joseph as well as Jesus because you were literally on the side of Abraham might end up being killed for what he said thus Joseph, Mary and Jesus would not have existed. Srecko Sostar, you, in your own mind and understanding have created a paradox in what you speak of in your own complex form of exegesis.

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

quote is from Andrija Hebrang, he was Minister of Health in those time when said this famous quote.

 https://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/da-li-je-hebrang-lagao-ili-govorio-neistinu/2828324/

https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrija_Hebrang_(sin)

Okay, we got the name, but if the quote is so famous, can you cite where it originated from? At least a year of the so called famous quote so it is easier to narrow it down? You just post 2 links of Herang, the Son, but the famous quote should be there and or looked up? Unless you are looking for it now?

Every quote someone and or some character has made in a show and or game is always cited and it either orginates from something directly, and or the actual source is given, all these quotes from real life people to not so real people can easily be found for these quotes are indeed famous.

Some examples:

Actual quotes that can be found and or looked up

Quote

 

• “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.” ~ According to Luke (Gospel), written in Caesarea; of Jesus the Messiah (The Christ) at the Synagogue of Nazareth, (account, not the entire book, possibly around the 3 B.C.E. to/between 33 C.E.)
• Make no mistake, I have a $70,000 silver of a radioactive meteor to stop the one from Metropolis... All I need for you is a penny for a book of matches. ~ Batman, Justice League: The New Frontier (2008)
• Diet of bankrupts... To-day, Messer Paolo is to visit me, and to-morrow there will be the cardinal; and thus they think to befool me, at their pleasure. But I, on my side, am only dallying with them. I listen to all they have to say and bide my own time. ~ Cesare Borgia, Cesare to Macchiavelli about his contempt for the Orsini (October, 1502), as quoted by Rafael Sabatini, 'The Life of Cesare Borgia', Chapter XV: Macchiavelli's Legation
• I have a Dream... ~ Martin Luther King Jr. delivering the speech at the Washington D.C. Civil Rights March (Aug. 28, 1963).
• “I find your lack of faith disturbing.” – Darth Vader, Star Wars (1977)
• The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason ~ Benjamin Franklin (1987). “Poor Richard's Almanack: Being the Choicest Morsels of Wisdom, Written During the Years of the Almanack's Publication”, p.16, Peter Pauper Press, Inc.
• Wise man say: "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza." ~ Michaelangelo, TMNT the Movie (1990)
• Since Rook's is a Supes Fan: Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound! ~ Announcer, Adventures of Superman (1952–1958)
• God isn't the author of confusion [1 Cor. 14:33] ~ Apostle Paul's first letter to the Corinthians from Ephesus (possibly between AD 53–57)
• The British are coming! ~ Paul Revere to mintuemen, British Invasion of 1775; The American Revolution (1775)
• Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value ~ Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

 

So now we know the person's name, Andrija Hebrang (The Son), you mentioned he said this quote: I never lie, but sometimes I say untruth, and that is much more polite. (possible translation: Nikada ne lažem, ali ponekad kažem istinu, i to je mnogo pristojnije.)

Any chance you know when and where he said it because I really do not see it anywhere, so that would be nice.

Anyways, back to what is being talked about because I know where you tend to do and it is obvious,

And now back to topic

All in all, what was said about Abraham and Sara was indeed correct, you need to learn and realize the conclusion to their actions of which you not making mention of, let alone you not mentioning Sarah who complied to this plan to begin with. I give you a link to the sister-wife narrative so you understand what is going on here. You can say Abraham and lied, okay, but to avoid why he did it, what he truly wanted to protect and how he was in fear of his life as the one who calls him Lord also fears for him for they BOTH know that the Egyptians do not know God, we see the conclusion, as is with the other situation that began very different compared to the deal with the Pharaoh.

Take a read here, Sostar, if you do not want to read verse after verse from a passage in the Bible, after all, quotes here CAN be found and this may be easier for you to read and understand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wife–sister_narratives_in_the_Book_of_Genesis

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

What Abraham and Sarah did was indeed a form of Spiritual Warfare

 

11 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Therefore, what they did was an act of Spiritual Warfare/Civil Disobedience.

 

11 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Both Abraham and Sarah had the same reasoning and it was in good intentions in regards to Spiritual Warfare,

 

11 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

So Spiritual Warfare regarding both couples was justified

AND NOW some quotes what means "Spiritual Warfare" according WT JWORG, organization you support and defend. So, let read some clear meaning in sentences: (source- https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1957327

Perhaps some will wonder as to where the line is to be drawn between use of theocratic war strategy in hiding the truth and the telling of lies. First of all, let it be noted that whenever one takes an oath to tell the truth he is obligated to do so. ...Likewise, when a Christian is placed on a witness stand he is obligated to speak the truth if he speaks at all. At times he may prefer to refuse to speak and suffer the consequences rather than betray his brothers or the interests of God’s work. And, of course, there is no occasion for use of war strategy when dealing with our Christian brothers. In dealing with them we tell the truth or tactfully remind them that what they seek to know does not concern them.......Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent.........So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good.....................Today God’s servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. ........ At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work.

If somebody want to justifies Abraham act by this WT explanation, let he do it, but i do not have to join.

1) Using arguments how Abraham never "give an oath" to Pharaoh or Abimelek, that he will answer them with truth on their questions.

2) Abraham not choose to "refuse to speak and suffer the consequences", but to speak what he think it is suitable to speak.

3) Lies are untruths told for "selfish reasons" and which work "injury to others." Did Abraham been selfish or not it depends on our perspective and is subjective. Did his act injury others?? Yes, because reports told us what was happened with Pharaoh's and Abimelek's family and people. 

4) "hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him", Again, reports told what suffers came on Abraham's "enemy". 

5) So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to "misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth." It is done unselfishly; "it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good." Misdirect the "enemy" by hiding the truth is what Abraham have done. He was hiding the truth. And that did harm them. What is so "much good" in to be killed, infertility, terrible plagues because somebody not told you the truth??

6) "they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy." Abraham used tactic to reveal information that makes confusion in "enemy" lines. With result that "harm people" whose hospitality he ask for. 

7) "Perhaps some will wonder as to where the line is to be drawn between use of theocratic war strategy in hiding the truth and the telling of lies."  

I can see this line between , and you Mr Merchant, as patron, protector of WTJWORG teaching and techniques on this issue, try to convince me how lie and line is somewhere else. No, this time you are in position to stand for a distorted attitude on what is a lie and what is the true. 

 

11 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

really do not expect much from you because regardless o anyone says, granted you seem to be in somewhat of an agreement with someone elsewhere on this topic.

This goes in conspiracy theory :))) dear friend. I have no accomplices, collaborator or supporter on this or any else public or not public forum, web site and so on. if someone give me like or up-vote that is not because i and such person have some deal/arrangement. 

Cheers!

[Srecko Sostar]

14 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Any chance you know when and where he said it because I really do not see it anywhere, so that would be nice.

i hear that on radio station loong ago, and it is in link i send, Jutarnji list.

 

14 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

(possible translation: Nikada ne lažem, ali ponekad kažem istinu, i to je mnogo pristojnije.)

" ponekad kažem istinu"  - wrong translation, have to be - "samo ponekad govorim neistinu"

ponekad kažem istinu = sometimes i tell  the true

samo ponekad govorim neistinu =sometimes i  talking the untruth

[Space Merchant]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

AND NOW some quotes what means "Spiritual Warfare" according WT JWORG, organization you support and defend. So, let read some clear meaning in sentences: (source- https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1957327

Oh really now? Spiritual Warfare, as I made it mention to you months ago and I mention it to you now is what it is, you do not need a link to the Watchtower to tell you what it is because they know, as to MANY others know what Spiritual Warfare is as well as Civil Disobedience, which is enforced and made know and in use, according to Apostle Paul and his own actions that comes from Civil Disobedience. This same action was expressed by several in the Bible, as well as a majority of them being women, since we know Sarah is in the discussion, I mention she is seen as a HERO for if she and Abraham didn't do what they did, there would be no Promise and they did what they could to protect that promise by preserving their lives by means of their own reasoning only for God to not only intervene, but allow them to continue living so that promise can prosper - Jesus Christ, is what came from said Promise.

Are you that daft, Serecko? But I guess to you if you had to put your hands in this passage, you probably have Abraham, and or his Son be no more, perhaps Rehab and you, being in Johnathan's place would have sold out David to Saul and every man and women who originated from David would not have existed, again, the Christ would have never came and God's Promise, by means of Abraham's Seed would be gone for good.

You fail to understand what Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience is.

For Spiritual Warfare is what it is as well as what Civil Disobedience, two peas in the same pod, is what it is and yes I defend what is said of these things and how our early Christian counterparts, and those we came from, did the same to preserve one thing and one thing only, anything pertaining to God's Purpose and Will.

But is is very sad to see you attempt to pull a Watchtower publication or article on the matter when everyone around the world knows what this means and will say the same thing. But according to you, Abraham should have said Sarah was his wife, and should Abraham die, it is on you.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If somebody want to justifies Abraham act by this WT explanation, let he do it, but i do not have to join.

Unfortunately, anyone who knows Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience, will say the same thing and know when it is justified, you can cry about Watchtower all you want but the reality is they, as do all persons, know about what I speak of which originated from the very Bible itself, both in action and terminology. It does not take a  rocket science, or perhaps in this case, a Jehovah's Witness, to understand that because they do know it like the rest of us who know exactly know what  it entails.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

1) Using arguments how Abraham never "give an oath" to Pharaoh or Abimelek, that he will answer them with truth on their questions.

Granted if the actually truth would put God's Purpose and Will in Jeopardy, thus putting a killing blow to God's Promise and Prophecy regarding of the coming Prophet. No Abraham = No Prophet = No awaiting of a Savior = No said Messiah to sit on David's Throne.

Abraham, as well as Sarah's actions pretty much helped them dodge a bullet or two (or what I like to say: dodged the hornet's nest) in order to preserve that Promise, the very reason why even some to this day consider Sarah Fearless God fearing woman, a hero, and a number of other things.

QUOTE: Sarah  - Sarah demonstrated faith and obedience while believing God's promises. She left her comfortable and familiar surroundings to launch her journey with God. ~ (Women of The Christ)

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

2) Abraham not choose to "refuse to speak and suffer the consequences", but to speak what he think it is suitable to speak.

Abraham preserved his life for the Promise of God comes from him, Sarah, who complied with her Lord, Abraham, for she and her husband knew that they have enemies who do not know God and do not fear God, they also had people outside of their own people who have no ideas of who God is and will do and can do vile things to God's people. It is also known that Abraham's and Sarah's people are the most hated are often the ones to be targets by others, for such ones usually kill the men and take the women and girls as plunder to be servants, slaves and or wives, having them believe in false gods, rather than the True God, and by means of their offspring because they are taken by these people, their children and their children's children end up believing in false gods also.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

3) Lies are untruths told for "selfish reasons" and which work "injury to others." Did Abraham been selfish or not it depends on our perspective and is subjective. Did his act injury others?? Yes, because reports told us what was happened with Pharaoh's and Abimelek's family and people. 

Jesus being Born from the line of Abraham is not selfish, in fact, God was the one who spoke of this Promise to Abraham, why else you think Jesus talks about Abraham seeing the light of his day and or that he was before Abraham? By means og God, Jesus was able to be born of a woman, Mary, due to Abraham being alive for his people to even exist, we know how Israel came to be, why consider it as selfish?

The only reason Pharaoh and Abimelech were affected was not because of Abraham's reasoning and or of Sarah' who didn't say anything to preserve Abraham alive, but rather, they, being people who clearly didn't believe and or know God, eventually found out when God intervened for Sarah, as well as Abraham, moreover, this only happen when they were either about to touch her and or marry her when she already has husband (the one she calls her brother), in Abimelech's case, God read his heart and sees him as a good man and he spoke to him, the very reason we can see the conclusion to this second sister-wife narrative, and clearly Abimelech was pretty much cool with Abraham at the end, whereas in their conversation, Abraham revealed his intentions and when he and Sarah actual spoke of the whole brother-sister thing, for technically, she is really his sister. Abraham even prayed for Abimelech and Abimelech said he can live anywhere he wants on his land.

So it is a HALF-TRUTH, as some would say.

And now I see you care about some of the conclusion, you shy away from it before and it was asked.

• So a quote: (Genesis 12:10-20) Abram (later called Abraham) is pressured to move to Egypt in order to evade a famine. Because his wife (also his half-sister), Sarai, is very beautiful, Abram asks her to say that she was only his sister lest the Egyptians kill him so that they can take her. On arriving before the Pharaoh, the Egyptians recognise Sarai's beauty, and the Egyptian princes shower Abram with gifts of livestock and servants to gain her hand in marriage. Sarai thus becomes part of "Pharaoh's house", but God sends a plague. Pharaoh restores Sarai to Abram and orders them to leave Egypt with all the possessions Abram had acquired in Egypt.
• Quote: Genesis 20:1-16 narrates the story of Abraham emigrating to the southern region of Gerar, whose king is named Abimelech. Abraham states that Sarah, his wife, is really his sister, leading Abimelech to try to take Sarah as a wife; however, God intervened before Abimelech touched Sarah. Abimelech complains to Abraham, who states that Sarah is his half-sister. Abimelech rebuking Abraham by Wenceslas Hollar. Abimelech asks Abraham, "What has thou done unto us?" Abimelech then restores Sarah to Abraham, and gives him gifts of livestock and servants by way of apology, and also allows Abraham to reside anywhere in Gerar. Abimelech also gives 1000 pieces of silver to Abraham to reprove Sarah by a "covering of the eyes". Abraham then prays for Abimelech and the king and his wife and concubines are able to conceive children; they previously could not.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

4) "hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him", Again, reports told what suffers came on Abraham's "enemy". 

And yet he and Sarah feared those who didn't know God and those who are enemies to their people, who are already know to have done some damage. His people had enemies and his people knows about those whom they never been in contact with. We see the Egyptians, over the years have indeed become enemies of Abraham's people for they feared that his people will surpass them and we already know even in prior to that how brutal the Egyptians were, therefore, it is no question to understand Abraham's fear.

In a sense, it is like being among a room of those who hate you for your race and or color, you know who hates you, but you do not know who if someone in that room will strike at you and or harm you, on the other side of the spectrum, it results in the victim in question to see all men like this, but soon realizing that there are those who are unaware of the struggle and battles the victim faces.

Abraham was not obvious to unknown nations and enemies of his people and of God. If he comes to an alien in region not of his own, he, and his wife already had a plan in motion because he feared for his life for his life is what is a piece to the puzzle in regards to God's Promise, and Sarah, who was with her husband and knows of the Promise, did everything to comply with Abraham, thus keeping him alive, calling him his brother, when really Abe is her half-brother and she is his half-sister.

They are nor reports, they are scriptural passages and or biblical accounts. Yes they find out who God is because both men were about to touch Sarah. Now if God didn't come through and Abraham was discovered, these people, who do not know God, would have had their way with the both of them for they didn't think much of such a people to begin with, perhaps Pharaoh would have been far more brutal to live up to how his people operated.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

5) So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to "misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth." It is done unselfishly; "it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good." Misdirect the "enemy" by hiding the truth is what Abraham have done. He was hiding the truth. And that did harm them. What is so "much good" in to be killed, infertility, terrible plagues because somebody not told you the truth??

Jonathan saved his best friend, David from being killed like a dog in the street by his Father, who would most likely toss David into a shallow grave, and Johnathan will most likely be punished, badly, for hiding his friend, seen as an enemy of his Father.

• Jonathan was the son of Saul, king of Israel, of the Tribe of Benjamin, and David was the son of Jesse of Bethlehem, of the Tribe of Judah, and Jonathan's rival for the crown of Israel's King. This man, who is best friends with and loved him like a brother, saved David by tricking his own Father and helping David flee and avoid death by the hands of Saul,he even drove his Father mad by saying the following: ‘It would be a sin for you to kill David; he has done nothing wrong.’. For if he had not done so, he would have been punished and David would have been killed, dead, by a man who seeks him out like a wild animal. No David, No Jesus being born in Bethlehem, no one to stick on his Throne and the Prophets who spoke to David would have been made out to be lairs of what the Seed is all about.
• Rebhab the Prostitute, should she had spoken the truth with the guards sent by the King of Jericho, she would have been killed alongside the spies, and her WHOLE household would have been killed, granted she wanted to save herself and her family because they believed in the God of Israel, the only reason she helped the spies, thus having lied to the guards who didn't think much of her because she was just a prostitute. The situation would be far worse because The King of Jericho, who had killed the spies if Rehab complied, would have had the upperhand on Joshua and the HEREM (חרם) would have been on not the King's side, but Joshua's side, for no spy was able to give any information because the spies were already dead, alongside Rehab and her family.
• The situation could have been another way, but still equality as bad whereas spies were never sent, and when the Battle of Jericho began it would have ended differently, but this time no red cord hanging out the window because Rehab have been indirectly slain with her family in the city, thus resulting in those who were for God, killing those who were also for God, again, for Rehab believed in the God of Israel, heard of him and what he has done and wanted to to serve him, and wanted her whole family to be saved also, but again, no spies, she ends up slain, and even if the spies came and she didn't lie, she would have been slain alongside the spies, perhaps brutally too for spies were not the thing that a King likes.
• Now we have Apostle Paul, he speaks of being obedient to the government and authorities, which is indeed what we must do. But he also spoke of any of whom of these two who puts God's Purpose and Will, be it preaching the gospel, serving, reading the Bible, and or other, you are to take action, thus paves way for Civil Disobedience, and Paul was very concise in this action and it's justification, for Paul would turn on a power in order to defend God's word and truth and what his Son, Jesus had professed, and he stood firm til death in this, the very reason why the practice is done today regarding Spiritual Warfare.

Therefore it is not a surprise to see such a thing happen.

The list goes on and on and on, and a majority among the list is women of the Bible. Such as Miriam, Deborah, Jael, Ester, and look, we also have Sarah, among this group of God fearing women and dozens more, so you are kind of outmatched by the likes of women, Sostar.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

6) "they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy." Abraham used tactic to reveal information that makes confusion in "enemy" lines. With result that "harm people" whose hospitality he ask for. 

Him being alive resulted in Issac being alive, down the road, we have David being alive, to the days of Mary being alive, and oh look- The Birth of Jesus Christ in Bethlehem.

The fact you before mention Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem but have issue with Abraham's actions shows you contradict your own self, let alone show you have flaws and a confusion of things.

Take out Abraham and that path to Jesus is gone and God's promise would be both the first and the last Promise broken.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

7) "Perhaps some will wonder as to where the line is to be drawn between use of theocratic war strategy in hiding the truth and the telling of lies."  

When it comes to protecting anything pertaining to God, Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience is most undoubtedly, justified and always and will ever be as so until the End Times lead into Great Tribulations into the God's Day of Judgement, H'Armageddon. During a time of peace no man would be able to and or commit to threatening their authority on to God's actual authority within his purpose and will, by means of the one he placed as King of HIS Kingdom, and most likely when the specter is given back, no one would be able to box with God at that point - That is a battle not only you cannot win, but neigh infinity impossible to even commit.

So I do the same as Apostle Paul had done.

I agree with Paul, but do you agree with him also?

• There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
• No unbelief made him [Abraham] waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,

I agree with Jesus, do you?

They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I can see this line between , and you Mr Merchant, as patron, protector of WTJWORG teaching and techniques on this issue, try to convince me how lie and line is somewhere else. No, this time you are in position to stand for a distorted attitude on what is a lie and what is the true. 

I concur, you can't see any line because you stopped at saying Abraham lied 2 times boom, you're done, but never spoke of what took place afterwards, only when it was mentioned to you, you briefly speak on the matter, you didn't even acknowledge of what God told the ruler of Gerar for God read his heart, and in the end, God restored his people. You have no idea of the sister-wife narratives of Genesis, that happen 3 times, mind you, and you do not know that Jesus Christ himself being on the earth was the result of Abraham's actions, and Abraham has been spoke of very highly for why else and where else to you think the phrase "The God of Abraham, and of Issac, and of/or Jacob (Israel)" came from? We don't have to stop at Jesus either, for if Abraham died, no 12 Tribes, Israel would not have existed and so will Jerusalem, not there.

You have to be really, really weak in biblical understanding to not see the actions of a man and his wife and what it actually led to in Bethlehem and what is soon to come, and you continue to do everything in your power to shift and evade and try to go around as to what is being said.

And here we go with WT this and that, the sister-wife narrative has been talked about for years, Sostar, everyone knows it and it is not a surprise the JWs know it too, and we also have Muslims and Jews, even Samaritans who know this account because they know the Tanakh very well and perhaps more compared to you, Sostar, and they will say the same thing when it comes to Abraham and Sarah, which ironically, can be found by searching, it is not that hard, if you can find a publication from the WT as if it was a breeze in the wind, what is stopping you from looking into the sister-wife narrative in the Bible committed by the family of Abraham? Perhaps fear of being in the wrong, as usual and sudden things go missing without  trace. For if you have forgotten, you tend to have a such a view on lies, but we cannot forget what you had said a while back which was indeed a lie, just a reminder. Wouldn't it put you in a hypocritical light but in contradiction to what is professed by you here in regards to Abraham's account? But has for the topic had hand, and knowing of their origin, Restorationist are NOT inspired nor have they EVER claimed to be inspired; even predating the Great Awakening, such claims are unfounded and alien to the world of Christian history.

My only concern is truth and being close to the truth, and nothing but the truth, and profess it (said this several times to you before). I even told you before, I am well aware of others who either speak of and or attempt to be close to what is true and those far from it, as well as being against those who teach the accursed (as far as anyone can see I detest the Trinity because it is unbiblical, far more than my dislike of the KJV/TR/1245/JC), anything that is not of the Early Church, but rather, of the mainstream, of this I refute and I am against it, but should anyone speak of deceit and or a lie regarding the Early Church and or some Christology be of of Christendom and or Islam (my only reasons is because of racist, and haters on those that have nothing to do with terror), expect to get a critical answer, as is done with the account of Abraham and his situation.

Distorted attitude? That is unfounded. I am serious, strict, have some odd way of speaking, tends to briefly make remarks,at times in Ye Ol English (Anglo-Saxon-like), a truth seeker be it religious and or other, low-key humorous, knowledgeable and concerning, as well as collected, I do not distort anything, nor do I speak on behalf of man's understanding on a variety of things, nor do I profess deceit because even my own culture detests/HATES deceits and ill actions of men, that Cultural Shield (bouclier culturel/Boukliye Kiltirèl) is unbreakable and upheld very strongly, even by infants, therefore, you can't do as much (why I like the fact that I am and will always be a true islander at heart). Once again, Srecko Sostar, I like to see you prove this claim vs. the amount of evidence, supporting evidence, practices and the like, even regarding this account on Abraham's behalf, of which can and will be used against you with a strong case of hermeneutics, for such will be to much for you to the point that even Watchtower publications cannot save you out of the dark box you put yourself in and that would be quite the ignoble - on your part.

That being said, I side with Abraham's decision, for he did what he did for reasons that are known and understood. He did so in order to persevere not only his life, but God's Promise of which will come by means of Abraham's own seed and the prophet whom everyone awaits - Lord Jesus Christ for HE is that Seed and the Heirs are part of this Seed, both being of the Spiritual House, both under the New Covenant, both of Spiritual Israel, both of Heavenly Jerusalem. You keep yourself closed from what comes from one man, and should that one man have died for not being subjected to Spiritual Warfare/Civil Disobedience, his wife who also did this for she is seen as a Hero by women today who read the Bible, the things mention would have been there to begin with.

I will put this example for and you below,  and in this example you are in a position of which pertains to your own understanding when others around you commit Spiritual Warfare/Civil Disobedience that is somewhat in similar fashion of that which was expressed by others in scripture in a position of when is Spiritual Warfare - Justified, when in a position to commit Civil Disobedience - Justified, and as usual, you will not answer, so I will answer what will be in display below for you - it will not be in your favor if we are to include your understanding of what Abraham and many others, have done:

Quote

If you had only the Bible in your house and you know you can be killed for it, and people come for the Bible, the only one you have and the only one in you country, for they want to destroy it, thus removing the Bible entirely from a whole country,a whole nation, and they began to sweep the homes and one by one families end up killed, arrested and some who do not have anything to do with God get to live another day, some who know God disowns him, self-excommunicated themselves of him.

And now they come to your home. Will you preserve God's Word that is the Bible from those who seek to destroy it? Or will you confess that you have the Bible hidden within the floor boards of your home specifically in bird decorated office, knowing very well that not only they will purge that only Bible existing in that nation of which you live in, but they will kill you and your household because you had that Bible hidden inside, and because of that book death looms on your back.

What do you expect will happen, now they are searching your home? Your family will go about Spiritual Warfare in order to defend the Bible's location, not giving any ideas or a clue to the people sent to destroy it, they will say they do not have it as well as other things, thus saving their own lives and the Bible itself for without it they have no Words of which allows them to continue learning of God, at the same time, they enact Civil Disobedience, which is justified in this situation, to protect themselves and the Bible even further. But surely, by your logic, you, believing in your own cloud-filled opinion of things, revealed the Bible to these people when others in your home did the opposite of what you did. Your actions got you and all in your household lined up outside in front your home, on their knees and bounded and blind folded, at this point you know exactly what will happen and the Bible itself was destroy by means of fire caused to your home by those who were successful in their endeavors.

The nation continues on, no Bible, or talk of God, and as for you, you are no more because although your family did knew when Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience is justified, mainly in a dark era of a time that befell such a nation (it will come in some form one day), you didn't adhere to such a thing, and your actions befell the perishing of not just yourself, but of others.

In the example above, the family clearly took the position of Abraham, Jonathan, Sarah and Rehab in order to protect the last Bible in that country, you on the other hand, in this example, jeopardized everything, for if you complied with your own household, in a Dark Era of a time would have actually learn of who God is in secret, about his Kingdom, about his Son, everything while enemies loom to seek to destroy every trace and every word that connections to the Bible. But you do not see, and therefore you yield among your own understanding, and the end result. I can tell you this much, real tribulations are nothing compared to this example and will be far worse.

So in short, Abraham and the others, were in the right here.

[Space Merchant]

55 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

i hear that on radio station loong ago, and it is in link i send, Jutarnji list.

 

But you said it is a famous quote? All famous quotes are easily traced back, but when searching for this one nothing could really be found, so to say it is famous is not true, but perhaps just one of those quotes this man tends to say. If quotes from olden times can be found easily by various means, it should not be different for this guy.

• I can say I have a dream, famous quote, can be looked up within seconds, MLK.
• I can say, No woman, no cry, famous quote from a song, look it up, Bob Marley, easy
• I can say Turtle Power, famous quote from a cartoon series, Teenage Mutant  Ninja Turtles, easy look up, easy find

Now when I attempt to find this so called famous quote, nothing, therefore, it is probably something he said and not much of a famous quote.

I gave you examples, Sostar....

Also the link takes me to a main page, not to the quote directly. Attempt with no success, therefore, not as famous as you make it to be.

55 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

" ponekad kažem istinu"  - wrong translation, have to be - "samo ponekad govorim neistinu"

ponekad kažem istinu = sometimes i tell  the true

samo ponekad govorim neistinu =sometimes i  talking the untruth

That is why I said possible translation. Now that you put it together, you may as well traced back the source itself of said famous quote.

I do not speak that Language by the way so not very easy to get an exact translation vs. a possible one, I speak English, French, Creole, Hebrew, Greek, Japanese, and Spanish, very little Russian (only learned it a bit because of some cheeky insult some guy said to a friend of mine a while back - the jokes on him when I knew now what he said).

[Srecko Sostar]

3 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

But according to you, Abraham should have said Sarah was his wife, and should Abraham die, it is on you.

perhaps i am "daft" according to your judgement.....but your upper statement reveal something strange  :)))))

[Srecko Sostar]

11 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Abraham preserved his life for the Promise of God comes from him

Where is Bible verse that say how Abraham choose to lie because of given promise. Bible verses we used until now show how he lie because of fear for his life. He is not mentioned any promise in context with Pharaoh or Abimelek. 

[Srecko Sostar]

41 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

The only reason Pharaoh and Abimelech were affected was not because of Abraham's reasoning and or of Sarah' who didn't say anything to preserve Abraham alive, but rather, they, being people who clearly didn't believe and or know God

this is so strange! and you have authority to call me names and say how i am "daft" :)))))))))))))

[admin]

@Srecko Sostar and @Space Merchant  please start a private message to each other or on each other’s walls. 

This thread is about a different topic. Thank you. 

Please learn to start new threads on new tooics.  

[Space Merchant]

32 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

perhaps i am "daft" according to your judgement.....but your upper statement reveal something strange  :)))))

Then take a good look at as to what I made the response to. And no it is not of my own judgment, it is of what we actually know of what God's Promise consist of, and that is, The Abrahamic Seed, otherwise known as The Seed of Abraham.

Strange? Care to share? For everything that is of the Bible you have something to say that connects with your opinion, as you so claim before over the biblical standpoint itself, not the first time you have done this, nor will it be the last.

26 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Where is Bible verse that say how Abraham choose to lie because of given promise. Bible verses we used until now show how he lie because of fear for his life. He is not mentioned any promise in context with Pharaoh or Abimelek. 

And if Abraham were to die, that Promise (The Christ and the Heirs) would have existed. Even you said, out of your own understanding, that God will probably have some other way to produce this promise, but at the same time, God has never had his Promises broken, yes he intervened in some situations, but never has his word been broken. I have already spoke on said verses, pages back, take a look, it is an eye-opener, moreover, you have the words of others.

20 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

this is so silly! and you have authority to call me names and say how i am "daft" :)))))))))))))

Is it now? Name any of the Pharaoh's in Abraham's Day who knew the God, soon to be called the God of Israel?

Being called daft isn't name calling. Daft means foolish, silly, absurd and crazy,mainly to the response you have given to which I have stated.

@admin will do.

[Srecko Sostar]

30 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Oh really now? Spiritual Warfare, as I made it mention to you months ago and I mention it to you now is what it is, you do not need a link to the Watchtower to tell you what it is because they know, as to MANY others know what Spiritual Warfare is as well as Civil Disobedience, which is enforced and made know and in use, according to Apostle Paul and his own actions that comes from Civil Disobedience. This same action was expressed by several in the Bible, as well as a majority of them being women, since we know Sarah is in the discussion, I mention she is seen as a HERO for if she and Abraham didn't do what they did, there would be no Promise and they did what they could to protect that promise by preserving their lives by means of their own reasoning only for God to not only intervene, but allow them to continue living so that promise can prosper - Jesus Christ, is what came from said Promise.

Are you that daft, Serecko? But I guess to you if you had to put your hands in this passage, you probably have Abraham, and or his Son be no more, perhaps Rehab and you, being in Johnathan's place would have sold out David to Saul and every man and women who originated from David would not have existed, again, the Christ would have never came and God's Promise, by means of Abraham's Seed would be gone for good.

You fail to understand what Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience is.

For Spiritual Warfare is what it is as well as what Civil Disobedience, two peas in the same pod, is what it is and yes I defend what is said of these things and how our early Christian counterparts, and those we came from, did the same to preserve one thing and one thing only, anything pertaining to God's Purpose and Will.

But is is very sad to see you attempt to pull a Watchtower publication or article on the matter when everyone around the world knows what this means and will say the same thing. But according to you, Abraham should have said Sarah was his wife, and should Abraham die, it is on you.

Unfortunately, anyone who knows Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience, will say the same thing and know when it is justified, you can cry about Watchtower all you want but the reality is they, as do all persons, know about what I speak of which originated from the very Bible itself, both in action and terminology. It does not take a  rocket science, or perhaps in this case, a Jehovah's Witness, to understand that because they do know it like the rest of us who know exactly know what  it entails.

Granted if the actually truth would put God's Purpose and Will in Jeopardy, thus putting a killing blow to God's Promise and Prophecy regarding of the coming Prophet. No Abraham = No Prophet = No awaiting of a Savior = No said Messiah to sit on David's Throne.

Abraham, as well as Sarah's actions pretty much helped them dodge a bullet or two (or what I like to say: dodged the hornet's nest) in order to preserve that Promise, the very reason why even some to this day consider Sarah Fearless God fearing woman, a hero, and a number of other things.

QUOTE: Sarah  - Sarah demonstrated faith and obedience while believing God's promises. She left her comfortable and familiar surroundings to launch her journey with God. ~ (Women of The Christ)

Abraham preserved his life for the Promise of God comes from him, Sarah, who complied with her Lord, Abraham, for she and her husband knew that they have enemies who do not know God and do not fear God, they also had people outside of their own people who have no ideas of who God is and will do and can do vile things to God's people. It is also known that Abraham's and Sarah's people are the most hated are often the ones to be targets by others, for such ones usually kill the men and take the women and girls as plunder to be servants, slaves and or wives, having them believe in false gods, rather than the True God, and by means of their offspring because they are taken by these people, their children and their children's children end up believing in false gods also.

Jesus being Born from the line of Abraham is not selfish, in fact, God was the one who spoke of this Promise to Abraham, why else you think Jesus talks about Abraham seeing the light of his day and or that he was before Abraham? By means og God, Jesus was able to be born of a woman, Mary, due to Abraham being alive for his people to even exist, we know how Israel came to be, why consider it as selfish?

The only reason Pharaoh and Abimelech were affected was not because of Abraham's reasoning and or of Sarah' who didn't say anything to preserve Abraham alive, but rather, they, being people who clearly didn't believe and or know God, eventually found out when God intervened for Sarah, as well as Abraham, moreover, this only happen when they were either about to touch her and or marry her when she already has husband (the one she calls her brother), in Abimelech's case, God read his heart and sees him as a good man and he spoke to him, the very reason we can see the conclusion to this second sister-wife narrative, and clearly Abimelech was pretty much cool with Abraham at the end, whereas in their conversation, Abraham revealed his intentions and when he and Sarah actual spoke of the whole brother-sister thing, for technically, she is really his sister. Abraham even prayed for Abimelech and Abimelech said he can live anywhere he wants on his land.

So it is a HALF-TRUTH, as some would say.

And now I see you care about some of the conclusion, you shy away from it before and it was asked.

• So a quote: (Genesis 12:10-20) Abram (later called Abraham) is pressured to move to Egypt in order to evade a famine. Because his wife (also his half-sister), Sarai, is very beautiful, Abram asks her to say that she was only his sister lest the Egyptians kill him so that they can take her. On arriving before the Pharaoh, the Egyptians recognise Sarai's beauty, and the Egyptian princes shower Abram with gifts of livestock and servants to gain her hand in marriage. Sarai thus becomes part of "Pharaoh's house", but God sends a plague. Pharaoh restores Sarai to Abram and orders them to leave Egypt with all the possessions Abram had acquired in Egypt.
• Quote: Genesis 20:1-16 narrates the story of Abraham emigrating to the southern region of Gerar, whose king is named Abimelech. Abraham states that Sarah, his wife, is really his sister, leading Abimelech to try to take Sarah as a wife; however, God intervened before Abimelech touched Sarah. Abimelech complains to Abraham, who states that Sarah is his half-sister. Abimelech rebuking Abraham by Wenceslas Hollar. Abimelech asks Abraham, "What has thou done unto us?" Abimelech then restores Sarah to Abraham, and gives him gifts of livestock and servants by way of apology, and also allows Abraham to reside anywhere in Gerar. Abimelech also gives 1000 pieces of silver to Abraham to reprove Sarah by a "covering of the eyes". Abraham then prays for Abimelech and the king and his wife and concubines are able to conceive children; they previously could not.

And yet he and Sarah feared those who didn't know God and those who are enemies to their people, who are already know to have done some damage. His people had enemies and his people knows about those whom they never been in contact with. We see the Egyptians, over the years have indeed become enemies of Abraham's people for they feared that his people will surpass them and we already know even in prior to that how brutal the Egyptians were, therefore, it is no question to understand Abraham's fear.

In a sense, it is like being among a room of those who hate you for your race and or color, you know who hates you, but you do not know who if someone in that room will strike at you and or harm you, on the other side of the spectrum, it results in the victim in question to see all men like this, but soon realizing that there are those who are unaware of the struggle and battles the victim faces.

Abraham was not obvious to unknown nations and enemies of his people and of God. If he comes to an alien in region not of his own, he, and his wife already had a plan in motion because he feared for his life for his life is what is a piece to the puzzle in regards to God's Promise, and Sarah, who was with her husband and knows of the Promise, did everything to comply with Abraham, thus keeping him alive, calling him his brother, when really Abe is her half-brother and she is his half-sister.

They are nor reports, they are scriptural passages and or biblical accounts. Yes they find out who God is because both men were about to touch Sarah. Now if God didn't come through and Abraham was discovered, these people, who do not know God, would have had their way with the both of them for they didn't think much of such a people to begin with, perhaps Pharaoh would have been far more brutal to live up to how his people operated.

Jonathan saved his best friend, David from being killed like a dog in the street by his Father, who would most likely toss David into a shallow grave, and Johnathan will most likely be punished, badly, for hiding his friend, seen as an enemy of his Father.

• Jonathan was the son of Saul, king of Israel, of the Tribe of Benjamin, and David was the son of Jesse of Bethlehem, of the Tribe of Judah, and Jonathan's rival for the crown of Israel's King. This man, who is best friends with and loved him like a brother, saved David by tricking his own Father and helping David flee and avoid death by the hands of Saul,he even drove his Father mad by saying the following: ‘It would be a sin for you to kill David; he has done nothing wrong.’. For if he had not done so, he would have been punished and David would have been killed, dead, by a man who seeks him out like a wild animal. No David, No Jesus being born in Bethlehem, no one to stick on his Throne and the Prophets who spoke to David would have been made out to be lairs of what the Seed is all about.
• Rebhab the Prostitute, should she had spoken the truth with the guards sent by the King of Jericho, she would have been killed alongside the spies, and her WHOLE household would have been killed, granted she wanted to save herself and her family because they believed in the God of Israel, the only reason she helped the spies, thus having lied to the guards who didn't think much of her because she was just a prostitute. The situation would be far worse because The King of Jericho, who had killed the spies if Rehab complied, would have had the upperhand on Joshua and the HEREM (חרם) would have been on not the King's side, but Joshua's side, for no spy was able to give any information because the spies were already dead, alongside Rehab and her family.
• The situation could have been another way, but still equality as bad whereas spies were never sent, and when the Battle of Jericho began it would have ended differently, but this time no red cord hanging out the window because Rehab have been indirectly slain with her family in the city, thus resulting in those who were for God, killing those who were also for God, again, for Rehab believed in the God of Israel, heard of him and what he has done and wanted to to serve him, and wanted her whole family to be saved also, but again, no spies, she ends up slain, and even if the spies came and she didn't lie, she would have been slain alongside the spies, perhaps brutally too for spies were not the thing that a King likes.
• Now we have Apostle Paul, he speaks of being obedient to the government and authorities, which is indeed what we must do. But he also spoke of any of whom of these two who puts God's Purpose and Will, be it preaching the gospel, serving, reading the Bible, and or other, you are to take action, thus paves way for Civil Disobedience, and Paul was very concise in this action and it's justification, for Paul would turn on a power in order to defend God's word and truth and what his Son, Jesus had professed, and he stood firm til death in this, the very reason why the practice is done today regarding Spiritual Warfare.

Therefore it is not a surprise to see such a thing happen.

The list goes on and on and on, and a majority among the list is women of the Bible. Such as Miriam, Deborah, Jael, Ester, and look, we also have Sarah, among this group of God fearing women and dozens more, so you are kind of outmatched by the likes of women, Sostar.

Him being alive resulted in Issac being alive, down the road, we have David being alive, to the days of Mary being alive, and oh look- The Birth of Jesus Christ in Bethlehem.

The fact you before mention Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem but have issue with Abraham's actions shows you contradict your own self, let alone show you have flaws and a confusion of things.

Take out Abraham and that path to Jesus is gone and God's promise would be both the first and the last Promise broken.

When it comes to protecting anything pertaining to God, Spiritual Warfare and Civil Disobedience is most undoubtedly, justified and always and will ever be as so until the End Times lead into Great Tribulations into the God's Day of Judgement, H'Armageddon. During a time of peace no man would be able to and or commit to threatening their authority on to God's actual authority within his purpose and will, by means of the one he placed as King of HIS Kingdom, and most likely when the specter is given back, no one would be able to box with God at that point - That is a battle not only you cannot win, but neigh infinity impossible to even commit.

So I do the same as Apostle Paul had done.

I agree with Paul, but do you agree with him also?

• There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
• No unbelief made him [Abraham] waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,

I agree with Jesus, do you?

They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did.

I concur, you can't see any line because you stopped at saying Abraham lied 2 times boom, you're done, but never spoke of what took place afterwards, only when it was mentioned to you, you briefly speak on the matter, you didn't even acknowledge of what God told the ruler of Gerar for God read his heart, and in the end, God restored his people. You have no idea of the sister-wife narratives of Genesis, that happen 3 times, mind you, and you do not know that Jesus Christ himself being on the earth was the result of Abraham's actions, and Abraham has been spoke of very highly for why else and where else to you think the phrase "The God of Abraham, and of Issac, and of/or Jacob (Israel)" came from? We don't have to stop at Jesus either, for if Abraham died, no 12 Tribes, Israel would not have existed and so will Jerusalem, not there.

You have to be really, really weak in biblical understanding to not see the actions of a man and his wife and what it actually led to in Bethlehem and what is soon to come, and you continue to do everything in your power to shift and evade and try to go around as to what is being said.

And here we go with WT this and that, the sister-wife narrative has been talked about for years, Sostar, everyone knows it and it is not a surprise the JWs know it too, and we also have Muslims and Jews, even Samaritans who know this account because they know the Tanakh very well and perhaps more compared to you, Sostar, and they will say the same thing when it comes to Abraham and Sarah, which ironically, can be found by searching, it is not that hard, if you can find a publication from the WT as if it was a breeze in the wind, what is stopping you from looking into the sister-wife narrative in the Bible committed by the family of Abraham? Perhaps fear of being in the wrong, as usual and sudden things go missing without  trace. For if you have forgotten, you tend to have a such a view on lies, but we cannot forget what you had said a while back which was indeed a lie, just a reminder. Wouldn't it put you in a hypocritical light but in contradiction to what is professed by you here in regards to Abraham's account? But has for the topic had hand, and knowing of their origin, Restorationist are NOT inspired nor have they EVER claimed to be inspired; even predating the Great Awakening, such claims are unfounded and alien to the world of Christian history.

My only concern is truth and being close to the truth, and nothing but the truth, and profess it (said this several times to you before). I even told you before, I am well aware of others who either speak of and or attempt to be close to what is true and those far from it, as well as being against those who teach the accursed (as far as anyone can see I detest the Trinity because it is unbiblical, far more than my dislike of the KJV/TR/1245/JC), anything that is not of the Early Church, but rather, of the mainstream, of this I refute and I am against it, but should anyone speak of deceit and or a lie regarding the Early Church and or some Christology be of of Christendom and or Islam (my only reasons is because of racist, and haters on those that have nothing to do with terror), expect to get a critical answer, as is done with the account of Abraham and his situation.

Distorted attitude? That is unfounded. I am serious, strict, have some odd way of speaking, tends to briefly make remarks,at times in Ye Ol English (Anglo-Saxon-like), a truth seeker be it religious and or other, low-key humorous, knowledgeable and concerning, as well as collected, I do not distort anything, nor do I speak on behalf of man's understanding on a variety of things, nor do I profess deceit because even my own culture detests/HATES deceits and ill actions of men, that Cultural Shield (bouclier culturel/Boukliye Kiltirèl) is unbreakable and upheld very strongly, even by infants, therefore, you can't do as much (why I like the fact that I am and will always be a true islander at heart). Once again, Srecko Sostar, I like to see you prove this claim vs. the amount of evidence, supporting evidence, practices and the like, even regarding this account on Abraham's behalf, of which can and will be used against you with a strong case of hermeneutics, for such will be to much for you to the point that even Watchtower publications cannot save you out of the dark box you put yourself in and that would be quite the ignoble - on your part.

That being said, I side with Abraham's decision, for he did what he did for reasons that are known and understood. He did so in order to persevere not only his life, but God's Promise of which will come by means of Abraham's own seed and the prophet whom everyone awaits - Lord Jesus Christ for HE is that Seed and the Heirs are part of this Seed, both being of the Spiritual House, both under the New Covenant, both of Spiritual Israel, both of Heavenly Jerusalem. You keep yourself closed from what comes from one man, and should that one man have died for not being subjected to Spiritual Warfare/Civil Disobedience, his wife who also did this for she is seen as a Hero by women today who read the Bible, the things mention would have been there to begin with.

I will put this example for and you below,  and in this example you are in a position of which pertains to your own understanding when others around you commit Spiritual Warfare/Civil Disobedience that is somewhat in similar fashion of that which was expressed by others in scripture in a position of when is Spiritual Warfare - Justified, when in a position to commit Civil Disobedience - Justified, and as usual, you will not answer, so I will answer what will be in display below for you - it will not be in your favor if we are to include your understanding of what Abraham and many others, have done:

In the example above, the family clearly took the position of Abraham, Jonathan, Sarah and Rehab in order to protect the last Bible in that country, you on the other hand, in this example, jeopardized everything, for if you complied with your own household, in a Dark Era of a time would have actually learn of who God is in secret, about his Kingdom, about his Son, everything while enemies loom to seek to destroy every trace and every word that connections to the Bible. But you do not see, and therefore you yield among your own understanding, and the end result. I can tell you this much, real tribulations are nothing compared to this example and will be far worse.

So in short, Abraham and the others, were in the right here.

Ok, you have your way, i have my way.We agree that we disagree. All best!

[Srecko Sostar]

9 minutes ago, admin said:

@Srecko Sostar and @Space Merchant  please start a private message to each other or on each otherÂ’s walls. 

This thread is about a different topic. Thank you. 

Please learn to start new threads on new tooics.  

Hi. I decide few  moments before not to discuss more. Thanks for intervention