Chilean flag displayed in Kingdom Halls

[HollyW]

Are Kingdom Halls in Chile being allowed to display the Chilean flag on September 18th in order to avoid a fine?

[The Librarian]

See my response on this thread:

 

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, HollyW said:

Are Kingdom Halls in Chile being allowed to display the Chilean flag on September 18th in order to avoid a fine?

If the conscience of the local body of elders permits, then flags can be displayed in any country on any day if required by the state. It's a bit like meat offered to idols. It's the ritual of false worship Christians avoid, with due consideration for conscience.

[HollyW]

2 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

If the conscience of the local body of elders permits, then flags can be displayed in any country on any day if required by the state. It's a bit like meat offered to idols. It's the ritual of false worship Christians avoid, with due consideration for conscience.

Hmmm....would that be the appropriate comparison?   Isn't meat offered to idols a ritual of false worship?

[Evacuated]

6 hours ago, HollyW said:

 Isn't meat offered to idols a ritual of false worship?

As you are probably aware, the ritual of offering is the false worship bit. The meat....well that's just the edible bit. (Although likely unattractive to vegetarians regardless).

[HollyW]

48 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

As you are probably aware, the ritual of offering is the false worship bit. The meat....well that's just the edible bit. (Although likely unattractive to vegetarians regardless).

Your comparison of offering meat to an idol being the same as displaying a national flag means the Chilean JWs are engaging in false worship.  Didn't think you'd want to do that, but there it is.

[Evacuated]

50 minutes ago, HollyW said:

displaying a national flag

Is not a worshipful ritual. It is just what you said it is. It's like having a country insignia on one's car plate.

[HollyW]

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Is not a worshipful ritual. It is just what you said it is. It's like having a country insignia on one's car plate.

I dunno 'bout that, Eoin.  Obviously one isn't involved in what the government puts on your car's license plate, but someone is surely involved in going into a Kingdom Hall and draping a national flag in the window.

Makes one wonder how much "worshipful ritual" was required of JWs in Malawi when it came to purchasing a required political card.  Not much difference in getting a license for their car.....or pledging an oath to uphold a country's constitution to get a passport.

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, HollyW said:

what the government puts on your car's license plate

Is it compulsory to have the flag on a car license plate now in Chile?

2 hours ago, HollyW said:

Makes one wonder how much "worshipful ritual" was required of JWs in Malawi when it came to purchasing a required political card.  Not much difference in getting a license for their car.....or pledging an oath to uphold a country's constitution to get a passport.

Does make you wonder, I agree. I have talked to Malawi brothers many years ago, but without the insight I have now.

"worshipful ritual" required? Probably not much more than what was involved in getting the release document signed in the Nazi camps during Hitler's rule.

As for getting a license plate or passport? Yeah, probably not much more effort for those either, but "apples and oranges" with regard to the "worship" aspect. (for me, that is).

Are you connected with a Christian group that resisted the Nazis in this way? Or the MCP for that matter?

PS. Docs below not direct translation of each other. Just samples.

[HollyW]

4 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Is it compulsory to have the flag on a car license plate now in Chile? 

Does make you wonder, I agree. I have talked to Malawi brothers many years ago, but without the insight I have now.

"worshipful ritual" required? Probably not much more than what was involved in getting the release document signed in the Nazi camps during Hitler's rule.

As for getting a license plate or passport? Yeah, probably not much more effort for those either, but "apples and oranges" with regard to the "worship" aspect. (for me, that is).

No, it isn't compulsory to have the flag on a car license plate but it is compulsory to have a license plate on your car.  It's compulsory to display the Chilean flag at the Kingdom Hall on Sept 18-19 or pay a fine.  It was compulsory to have a political card in Malawi or be brutalized.  Even in countries where voting is not compulsory, JWs can go to the polls and even into the polling booth in order to avoid penalties and/or physical harm.  Were Malawi JWs asked to renounce their faith in Jehovah when they bought a political card?  No, so the release document in the Nazi camps is not the same thing as buying a political card in Malawi.  If JWs can give all the appearances of taking part in political elections in order to avoid harm, why would they not be allowed to buy a political card for the same reason?  There's no worshipful ritual involved in it.  And, really, as far as JWs voting, they would have to have registered to vote to even be able to go into a polling booth.  So there's that to consider as well.

[Evacuated]

13 hours ago, HollyW said:

No, so the release document in the Nazi camps is not the same thing as buying a political card in Malawi.

Not explicitly, but, for me, implied. And giving approval to the MCP's treatment of dissenters.

Unfortunately, in all these scenarios there is very little or no comment from any who have actually faced the issue. (Save 3rd party examples). I am not really clear on where you actually stand on the examples listed, and I certainly don't know what you would do in a real-life scenario. Not that you are in any way accountable to me.

Why are you so concerned about what JWs do anyway? Were you one once?

[HollyW]

On 6/10/2017 at 9:35 PM, The Librarian said:

See my response on this thread:

 

Thank you, Librarian.  From the WTS letter to the Chilean elders, it seems similar to their view of going to a 4th of July celebration here in the US...it's okay for JWs to attend and join in watching the fireworks, etc, as long as they aren't having feelings of patriotism.