Baptism of Children by Jehovah's Witnesses

[Evacuated]

6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Works for baptism IS UNBIBLICAL. 

Acts 2:37-38 +Acts 26:20

[Evacuated]

8 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

obverse and meditate it

Stop saying "obverse" which means "the opposite or counterpart of a fact or truth."

You mean "observe". This is a critical error in a discussion like this.

[Space Merchant]

14 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Stop saying "obverse" which means "the opposite or counterpart of a fact or truth."

You mean "observe". This is a critical error in a discussion like this.

My bad, typed too fast. But yes, observe and meditate.

[Equivocation]

@Space Merchant How fast is your words per minute? Back on subject. I see what you are saying about Baptism being a requirement vs. people who make the decision to be baptized. I just googled baptismal regeneration because I didn't know that was a heavily discussed term.

You also make point about the origin of baptism, so from there the view you have is mostly clear.

[Equivocation]

1 hour ago, Outta Here said:

Acts 2:37-38 +Acts 26:20

It's always Acts. I remember there was a guy who went on a rant, jumping up and down in total rage about it lol. 🤣

[Space Merchant]

@Equivocation Faithful Word Baptist Church Pastor Steven L. Anderson. He is also a fundamentalist pertaining to mainstream Christendom ideologies. This guy had quite a few words to say about Biblical Unitarians that only come back to bite him in the end.

Quote

It is not just verses in Acts that irks this man.

Full context in regards to baptism, yes?

Other than that baptismal regeneration is not such an unknown term, for it relates to those in support of baptism requirement in which what pertains to what that doctrine consist of. Clearly if one is seeking to be baptized and makes this decision on their accord, it does not relate to or conflict with the latter belief. Also, one has to take into account those that never got the chance to or have yet sought baptism, ending up in a situation, loss of life, etc. Which is why we have the example of the thief who was crucified and was hung next to Jesus. Drawing context from Jesus' interaction with him, and his interaction with the command he gave, clearly the support of baptismal regeneration isn't there as some denominations would have you believe.

[Evacuated]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

the support of baptismal regeneration isn't there

Baptismal regeneration is just another of the pompous terms giiven by apostates to a distorted interpretation of scripture presented as a "doctrine". It is not a bilble teaching.

Baptism is a necessary part of the action of anyone  wishing to come into an approved relationship with Jehovah through his Son Jesus Christ of course. But it is an act that, whilst directed by Jesus Christ (Matt.28:19) and therefore essential, has a symbolic significance and does nothing in a physical way to the individual. Peter made that clear at 1Pet.3:21.

[Shiwiii]

19 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Again, what I said exactly is the following:

When a person has been studying the word diligently, becoming hearers of the word and embraces it, they will most likely seek baptism on their own accord, and as stated before, in doing so, they accept the teachings of the teacher, Lord Christ Jesus (Acts 2:38, 41).

The verse in question regarding encouragement in this domain

[38] And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [41] So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Right, and look at it. Does the verse you mention state that anyone needs to study to become baptized? No it doesn't, but you made the statement and I disagreed.

 

 

No one is questioning this part of your statement:

 

19 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Bible encourages us to obverse and study.

I just disagree that one needs to study to become baptized. The Bible does not state that one must study to be baptized, and thus the idea that a person would need to, is unbiblical. 

 

I'm not going to keep going around in circles and obscure definitions with you,  I stated my point very clear. You seem to dislike that, so what. 

[Shiwiii]

18 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Acts 2:37-38 +Acts 26:20

none of the verses you posted state anything close to having to study to become baptized. please explain. 

[Evacuated]

4 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

none of the verses you posted state anything close to having to study to become baptized. please explain. 

Keep on seeking.....................

[Shiwiii]

8 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Keep on seeking.....................

ahh I see, no problem. IF you ever do want to explain, I'll listen and respond. 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

On 3/15/2019 at 2:04 PM, Shiwiii said:

Right, and look at it.

Ok, I am looking.

On 3/15/2019 at 2:04 PM, Shiwiii said:

Does the verse you mention state that anyone needs to study to become baptized?

Context of passage of Peter's sermon shows us that the people heard the teachings of the Christ that day, others, who were present were already students of God's Word. Clearly, one who hears takes up wisdom of all things concerning the Christ and his God, hence why when it came to baptism, water immersion, which is a public declaration in this sense, proves otherwise.

On 3/15/2019 at 2:04 PM, Shiwiii said:

No it doesn't, but you made the statement and I disagreed.

I really do not care if you agree with me, I agree to what the Bible says and what lessons and examples we as Christians draw from it. My response is based purely on biblical hermeneutics, as is with most of my comments when it comes to explaining something or someone.

Acts 2:38, or the passage itself gives context of what you are reading. For we know that those at Pentecost are Christians, embracing on what was being professed to them regarding the Christ, the references in connection to that verse (or verses), as well as the helper of whom was promised. Not only the people were baptized regarding repentance of sin, but they were baptized in Christ.

Simon Peter, when professing the inspired sermon, the teachings to the people heed the command of the Christ, the same verse you yourself said we are to follow since it was Jesus who gave this command (Matthew 28:19), and in this history of early Christianity, God’s people would seek repentance and be baptized in the name of God's Son, Jesus Christ, for forgiveness of sins, such echos back to John the Baptist, hence references. It is known that at this point in time that the Jews had rejected the Messiah, God’s Christ and by means of repenting and exercising faith in the Christ, one is capable of seeking and receiving forgiveness from God, granted that the New Covenant was already in effect. Public declaration as mentioned of such faith by being immersed in water in the name of Jesus Christ.

Christians today applies what is learned in the passage of Acts 2 and understand what Simon Peter conveyed when he talked to those at Pentecost, who were of the Church of the Christ. These people knew what they were being taught and applied it; they heard it, no doubt. Moreover, the Holy Spirit, the helper, was poured to the people, inspired them, 120 persons who are disciples, later that day, thousands more, who accepted the teachings of the Christ and understood said teaches concerning about the very person of whom God made both Lord and Christ, according to Peter (32, 36). Such ones show a public declaration of faith by being immersed in water in the name of Jesus Christ, their teacher (death unto life), not to mention that such ones were like pupils, students concerning God’s Word; reading The Coming of the Holy Spirit (1-13) should have been obvious to you, let alone the references in connection to passage.

Christians today applies what is read in Acts 2, especially when it comes to Peter's Sermon at Pentecost (14-41). Peter knew very well what Jesus had taught and these teachings were presented to the people in the city, and said teachings was conveyed to those who sought baptism after hearing and accepting the sound truth about the Christ. Likewise, for us, like the early Christians of Pentecost, we too can accept the truth of the Christ by hearing and learning about all and everything that Jesus had taught, mainly when it came to the good news gospel and the Messianic Age, said teachings professed by the Christians of that day. This is why when I said we are to study the word, it is in relation to the teachings of Christ Jesus, for when it comes to becoming his servant, his follower, his disciple, we are to fully understand what he says, what he commands, and we make disciples by teaching what the Christ has taught unto the people who hears the word, in doing so, like our Eunuch friend, such ones can embrace the message concerning the Christ, and in doing so, they make declaration to the Church of the Christ, and glorify God, rejoice in such as well. Such efforts will enable such ones to do what those 120 persons have done.

That being said, clearly those at Pentecost knew what they were conveying afterwards, and what they had been teaching to the people, vice versa, what the people were learning and accepting from them. A follower of the Christ understands the teachings, mainly when it comes to those who has that chance.

The promise is to us, after all.

On 3/15/2019 at 2:04 PM, Shiwiii said:

No one is questioning this part of your statement:

And yet when something is said, suddenly you wanted a verse with that exact mention of something when clearly the context is being drawn from such verse.

On 3/15/2019 at 2:04 PM, Shiwiii said:

I just disagree that one needs to study to become baptized.

Concerning what Jesus taught, according to you, how does one convey if they is no need to study, read, observe, etc? Example regarding Jesus in his childhood, he read, studied, recited, and observed the laws found in the Old Testament because in doing so, he, as with all Jews, learned about the God of Israel. Why is it suddenly different according to you about those of the New Covenant; Christians?

On 3/15/2019 at 2:04 PM, Shiwiii said:

The Bible does not state that one must study to be baptized, and thus the idea that a person would need to, is unbiblical. 

So what would you say in regards to those being hearers of the word? actually disciples and students of God's Word in Bible times, especially those at Pentecost?

How would the early Christians teach and preach the good news gospel and the Messianic Age if they did not understand or observed what the teachings were to begin with?

Taking in wisdom is indeed biblical not. So if Jesus urges us to take in knowledge by coming to know the True God is wrong? Let alone what was said about taking in accurate knowledge? Trying to understand you.

On 3/15/2019 at 2:04 PM, Shiwiii said:

I'm not going to keep going around in circles and obscure definitions with you

Obscure definitions?

On 3/15/2019 at 2:04 PM, Shiwiii said:

I stated my point very clear. You seem to dislike that, so what. 

You haven't really brought much here. In short you are having an issue with the taking in of wisdom concerning God and the Christ. Unless you can make your point clearer on how does one heed command from Jesus to know who God is and who he [Jesus] is if they do not hear any sort of teaching, or read and obverse anything from Scripture?

Jesus put high importance in observing the word hence why we have the foremost commandments, and by reading and understanding, we understand why he holds such this high and why we as Christians must apply such.

No, it is not that I dislike what you are saying, rather not much has come from you thus far, but I am speaking from what the Bible conveys here to which you are calling unbiblical, not to mention that random assumptions and accusations when there is no evidence of such, and the lowkey no mentions for what was talked about before i.e. The Eunuch.

That being said, if you have some points to make, then do so, aside from that, I speak on what the Bible says regarding those who are in union with the Christ and what they've done, in which we as Christians today can emulate and apply.