Matthew 24. Is the INVISIBLE PAROUSIA doctrine based on less likely, special definitions of SIGN, PAROUSIA, CONCLUSION, LIGHTNING, GENERATION, and "GENTILE TIMES"?

[JW Insider]

On 8/23/2017 at 11:10 PM, Nana Fofana said:

“Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” as Jehovah’s executioner at the war of Armageddon, the Greek word erkhomenon is used. 

 

(Revelation 1:7) Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen.

(Matthew 24:30) And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(Mark 13:26) And then they will see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory.

(Luke 21:27) And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

What is most interesting is that Jesus refers to coming in great power and glory after his disciples ask for a sign. Jesus is more likely saying that they won't get a sign because he is coming to perform this judgment event in power and great glory. There is no need for a sign because it will be sudden and without warning as to the time. The coming is the same as the parousia. Remember:

• (2 Thessalonians 2:8) . . .whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.

• (1 Thessalonians 4:15, 16) 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet. . .

   

 

[JW Insider]

On 8/23/2017 at 11:10 PM, Nana Fofana said:

PRESENT BUT NOT VISIBLE:

(Genesis 11:7) Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another’s language.”

(Exodus 3:8) And I am proceeding to go down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land to a land good and spacious, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the locality of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.

(Exodus 33:14) So he said: “My own person will go along and I shall certainly give you rest.”

(Exodus 33:20) And he added: “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.”

(John 1:18) No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

Of course it is quite possible for spirit creatures and God himself to be present but not visible. I notice that two of the most distinct and appropriate verses to this discussion were left out:

• (Matthew 18:19, 20) . . .. 20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.”
• (Matthew 28:20) . . .And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

Here Jesus says he will be present with us wherever two or three are gathered in his name. And after he received "all authority in heaven and on earth" he says he is present with us until the Synteleia [final conclusion].

Of course, these verses must be studiously avoided if we are trying to make a case that Jesus is not present until his Parousia in 1914. Also because we probably don't wish to remind people that this would mean that Jesus is only present UNTIL 1914 when he for some reason receives MORE authority, after he already received ALL authority. So what is the need for a "presence" after 1914 is there if he is already present up until 1914? All this makes more sense of course, when we realize that Parousia did not mean a simple presence when used with reference to a king or ruler. It referred to a special visitation event that could include a display of power and glory, and could also include displays of judgment. If Jesus was already present in 1913 according to the two verses quoted above, then what is the more likely meaning of the Parousia? Presence or Visitation/Advent?

 

[bruceq]

20 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

 

I believe in Jehovah's Witnesses teaching not Christendom's or your "special interpretations".

What Is the Coming of Christ?

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The Bible’s answer

The Scriptures make dozens of references to the future time when Christ comes to judge the people of the earth. * For example, Matthew 25:31-33 says:

“When the Son of man [Jesus Christ] comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.”

This time of judgment will be part of a “great tribulation” unlike anything in human history. That tribulation will culminate in the war of Armageddon. (Matthew 24:21; Revelation 16:16) Christ’s enemies, described in his illustration as goats, “will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction.” (2 Thessalonians 1:9; Revelation 19:11, 15) In contrast, his faithful servants, the sheep, will have the prospect of “everlasting life.”—Matthew 25:46.

When will Christ come?

Jesus said: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows.” (Matthew 24:36, 42; 25:13) However, he did describe a visible, composite “sign” that would identify the period leading up to his coming.—Matthew 24:3,7-14; Luke 21:10, 11.

Does Christ come in a body of spirit or of flesh?

Jesus was resurrected with a spirit body, so he comes as a spirit creature, not in the flesh. (1 Corinthians 15:45; 1 Peter 3:18) For this reason, Jesus could tell his apostles on the day before his death: “In a little while the world will see me no more.”—John 14:19.

Common misconceptions about Christ’s coming

Misconception: When the Bible says that people will see Jesus “coming on the clouds,” it means that Jesus will come visibly.—Matthew 24:30.

Fact: The Bible often associates clouds with something hidden from view. (Leviticus 16:2; Numbers 11:25; Deuteronomy 33:26) For example, God told Moses: “I am coming to you in a dark cloud.” (Exodus 19:9) Moses did not literally see God. Likewise, Christ ‘comes on the clouds’ in that people perceive his coming even though they cannot literally see him.

Misconception: The expression “every eye will see him,” used at Revelation 1:7 when speaking of Christ’s coming, is to be understood literally.

Fact: The Greek words in the Bible for “eye” and “seeing” are sometimes used in the sense of discerning or perceiving rather than referring to literal sight. * (Matthew 13:15; Luke 19:42; Romans 15:21;Ephesians 1:18) The Bible says that the resurrected Jesus is “the one . . . who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man . . . can see.” (1 Timothy 6:16) Thus, “every eye will see him” in that all people will perceive that Jesus is the one who brings God’s judgment.—Matthew 24:30.

Misconception: The words of 2 John 7 show that Jesus will come in the flesh.

Fact: That Bible verse states: “Many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh.”

In the apostle John’s day, some denied that Jesus had come to earth in the flesh as a man. They were called Gnostics. Second John 7 was written to refute their false claim.

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, The Librarian said:

@JW Insider please split this discussion off into this new topic elsewhere :-)

Good idea. Please note that I have begun to split off some of the posts from several recent threads (like this one) that have been attracting a lot of discussion about whether questioning a teaching of the Governing Body is disloyal. Some apparently see testing/questioning/proving as a sign LOYALTY, because in areas where we may be concerned that current teachings might differ from the Bible, we are primarily concerned with truth, honesty, reasonableness, and showing primary loyalty to Jehovah and Jesus and the teachings found in the Bible. Some apparently see ANY questioning of the Governing Body as DISLOYATY and the equivalent of returning to the teachings of Christendom.

If you have made posts HERE in this topic, but they were primarily about this Loyalty/Disloyalty issue, or discussing Christendom's teachings in general, or if they discussed the propriety of questioning the Governing Body, then your post is probably going to be found in this NEW TOPIC linked here. J.R.Ewing was not the originator of the topic or the person who came up with the title for the topic, it's just that in creating a new topic, the first post you take is the top post in that new topic:

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/43613-governing-body-does-it-show-loyalty-or-disloyalty-to-question-the-gb/