The Holy Spirit

[Evacuated]

3 hours ago, Cos said:

it appears that all you have for your belief is the ever shifting and inconsistent teaching of men who hide behind a magazine, with NO Scriptural backing.

Sadly, unsubstantiated opinion.

3 hours ago, Cos said:

Can “force/ power” have feelings, a mind and intellect? These are traits of a real Person not a thing

Repetition may emphasize, but, as with the similar, cathechismal assertion of such ideas by other historic groups, fails to establish truth. ¿<>< 

[Cos]

19 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

unsubstantiated opinion

 

Gone fishing, 

 

This is really very simple, my “opinion” as you say, is easily validated by the simple fact that you have no Scriptural backing for your position.

 

19 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

 fails to establish truth

 

Maybe for you, but certainty is via the Scriptures only, not from the pages of a bogus magazine which blinds the minds of its adherents. ¿ ~~><>

[Cos]

 

The Holy Spirit has a will, and decides which gifts to give believers:

 

“But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.” (1 Cor. 12:11)

 

The Greek word βουλεται (translated “will”) is the present indicative of βούλομαι and grammatically is referring to the Holy Spirit. The present tense of the word in this verse “emphasizes the habitual or repeated action. He gives not according to the merit or wishes of men but according to his own will.” (Linguistic Key to the Greek New Testament p429)

 

“The Present Indicative is used to express customary actions and general truths” (Syntax of Moods and Tenses of New Testament)

 

Strongs Greek Dictionary

 G1014 βούλομαι boulomai

boo'-lom-ahee

Middle voice of a primary verb; to “will”, that is, (reflexively) be willing: - be disposed, minded, intend, list (be, of own) will (-ing). Compare G2309.

 

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

 1014: βούλομαι
…to will, wish;  to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded: …of the will electing or choosing between two or more things…

 

Abbott-Smith's Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament

βαύλομαι,

to will, wish, desire, purpose, be minded, of the will making choice between alternatives

 

Dodson Greek-English Lexicon

G1014

βούλομαι

Verb

I will, intend, desire

 

Strong's Electronic Concordance

boulomai: to will

Original Word: βούλομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: boulomai
Phonetic Spelling: (boo'-lom-ahee)
Short Definition: I will, intend, desire
Definition: I will, intend, desire, wish.

 

Discovery Bible Word-studies

1014 boúlomai – to plan with full resolve (determination). See 1012 (boulē).

1014 /boúlomai ("resolutely plan") is a strong term that underlines the predetermined (and determined) intention driving the planning (wishing, resolving). In contrast, 2309 (thélō) focuses on the desire ("wishfulness") behind making an offer (cf. TDNT, 1, 629).

[While God's "thelō-offers" can be rejected (see 2309 /thélō), His 1014 /boúlomai ("planning") always works out His purpose, especially in conjunction with presetting the physical scenes of history.]

 

Vines Dictionary

Verb,1014,boulomai

"to wish, to will deliberately," expresses more strongly than thelo (No. 6) the deliberate exercise of the will

 

Hastings New Testament Dictionary

When we turn to βούλομαι we find that the verb is always used of man, except in Luk 22:42, Heb 6:17 (the only case where the word occurs in Heb.), 2Pe 3:9, and Jam 1:18 Mat 11:27, 1Co 12:11… The verb thus denotes plan and settled deliberate purpose

 

How can an a mindless active force make decisions?

 

The word βούλομαι appears in the Bible 34 times and used only for persons. The Holy Spirit is a person. For in 1 Cor. 12:11 He acts as a person; distributes favors, confers gifts as He wills. It would be absurd to say a “force” bestows favors, and distributes the various gifts, and raising the dead.

 

Here is a clear and full proof of the personality of the Spirit, who is not only distinguished from His gifts, and the distribution of them, which is a personal act  described to Him; but this is said to be done according to THE WILL of the Holy Spirit, which shows an intelligent person, capable of choosing and willing.

 

The NWT has for boulomai “it wills”. Yet how can a thing, an active force, a mindless power, have will?

 

It is also quite clear that poetical personification, as you JWs always imagine when it comes to the Holy Spirit, would be quite out of place here because of the personal deeds attributed to the Holy Spirit in the context. <><

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I think everyone just needs to step back, and re-evaluate ....

 

[Evacuated]

On 1/19/2018 at 11:56 AM, Cos said:

certainty is via the Scriptures only

Agreed entirely. And yet to be demonstrated in connection with the holy spirit being a person separate from it's originator, the Father, Jehovah.

[Cos]

20 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

And yet to be demonstrated in connection with the holy spirit being a person separate from it's originator, the Father, Jehovah.

 

This is a typical response from someone who follows the shifting teachings of a magazine. Scripture demonstrates the distinction and personality of the Holy Spirit from the Father in many places, Matthew 28:19 and 2 Cor. 13:14 are two such examples. <><

[Evacuated]

7 hours ago, Cos said:

Scripture demonstrates the distinction and personality of the Holy Spirit from the Father in many places

Distinction of course, personality?...........afraid not.

[Cos]

13 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Distinction of course, personality?...........afraid not.

 

I’m afraid you have abandoned any sense of reason in an effort to cling to a false idea. How can you maintain the contradictive teaching of the Watchtower without any Scriptural support? You admit Scripture only but you don’t have Scriptural backing…why is that?

 

 Anyway stay tuned, I will continue providing Scriptural proof that the Holy Spirit is a real Person who has a will, emotions and intellect. <><

[Evacuated]

10 hours ago, Cos said:

stay tuned, I will continue providing Scriptural proof that the Holy Spirit is a real Person who has a will, emotions and intellect.

I will, but on the basis of what has been provided so far, I think we are in for a long haul.................................................                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

 

[Cos]

13 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

I will, but on the basis of what has been provided so far, I think we are in for a long haul.................................................                                                                                                                                         

 

......………….particularly when compared to no Scriptural backing. <><

[Cos]

The apostle Paul confirms for us that the Holy Spirit is a real Person by declaring that the Holy Spirit possesses a mind (Romans 8:27).

 

“But He that searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is...”

 

The Greek word in this verse translated “mind” is φρονημα  (phronéma). The word appears 4 times in the NT, and in these other 3 passages (all in Romans 8) the word is only applied to persons.

 

Let’s take a look at what some dictionaries and Lexicons have to say about and how they define “phronéma”.

 

Abbot-Smith Manual Greek Lexicon of the NT; “ φρόνημα, -τος, τό that which is in the mind, the thought: Rom 8:6-7; Rom 8:27.”

 

E.W. Bullinger, A Critical Lexicon and Concordance of the English and Greek Testament; “φρόνημα what one has in mind, what one thinks and feels; hence, mind, thought, feeling, will; knowledge or wisdom, as being the product of the mind”

 

Mounce Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament

“φρόνημα phronēma frame of thought, will, aspirations”

 

A Manual Greek lexicon of the New Testament has;

“φρόνημα that which is in the mind, the thought”

 

Hastings New Testament Dictionary, phronema denotes “thoughts and purposes”.

 

Vines Dictionary; Noun,5427,phronema denotes "what one has in the mind, the thought" (the content of the process expressed in phroneo, "to have in mind, to think"); or "an object of thought…"

 

Dodson Greek-English Lexicon; “ φρόνημα, ατος, τό Noun, Neuter thought, purpose”

 

Strong’s Greek Dictionary

φρόνημα phronēma, fron'-ay-mah

From 5427 (mental) inclination or purpose:--(be, + be carnally, + be spiritually) mind(-ed).

 

THAYER'S GREEK LEXICON 5427: φρόνημα
φρόνημα, φρονηματος, τό (φρονέω, which see), what one has in mind, the thoughts and purposes (A. V. mind): Romans 8:6f, 27. (Hesychius φρόνημα. βούλημα, θέλημα. In various other senses also from Aeschylus down.)

 

Strong's Electronic Concordance; phronéma: the thought (that which is in the mind)

Original Word: φρόνημα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: phronéma
Phonetic Spelling: (fron'-ay-mah)
Short Definition: thought, purpose
Definition: thought, purpose, aspirations.

 

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin from phroneó
Definition the thought (that which is in the mind)
 

Edward Robinson, A Greek and English Lexicon of the New Testament.

“φρόνημα  what one has in mind, what one thinks and feels;' hence, mind, thought.”

 

Samuel G. Green Vocabulary definition in, “Handbook to the Grammar of the Greek Testament, has, “φρονημα, thought, regard”

 

W. J. HICKIE, Greek-English Lexicon to the New Testament,

“φρόνημα τό, thought, mind.”

 

Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich: A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, " way of thinking, mind(-set), aim, aspiration, striving.”

 

The Watchtower’s own Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures has “minding” as the translation for phronéma at Romans 8:27.

 

All other Interlinear I consulted all had “mind” as the translation of phronéma.

 

Interesting how the Watchtower tries to cover how the word phronéma is understood in the NWT. In Romans 8:6-7 the NWT has the word “minding” at the other three places where phronéma appears but not in Romans 8:27, note how the word in Romans 8:6-7 clearly indicates the mindfulness or thought patterns of persons; worldly (fleshly) ones in contrast to those persons who are near to God. 

 

We also note in Romans 8:27 that there is a distinction between the first Person “who searches the hearts” and “knows” the thoughts of this other Person who in turn is pleading on behalf of the saints. <><

[Cos]

The Bible provides many ways to help us understand that the Holy Spirit is truly a Person rather than impersonal thing.

 

Matthew 28:19 teaches us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is a collective reference to one Triune God.

 

Also, we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit  (Eph. 4:30). The Spirit can be sinned against (Isa. 63:10). And most important of all we are to obey Him (Acts 10:19-21).

“And as Peter pondered concerning the vision, the Spirit said to him, ‘Behold, three men are seeking you. But rising up, go down and go with them, not discriminating, because I have sent them.’ And going down to the men, the ones sent from Cornelius to him, Peter said, ‘Behold, I am the one whom you seek. What is the cause for which you are here?’” (Acts 10:19-21) <><