Legal Protection Offered by JW.org

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

If I can find it, I will post the photos I have of the Watchtower Society Lawyers, after they failed to secure religious liberty for the Witnesses in Russia, despite $80 million dollars in international postage, and $3 million dollars in legal fees and expenses, at the Moscow Salt Water Aquarium having an "after case" party and dinner at a fine Russian restaurant, and swimming freely with the sharks ... both men and sharks having a GREAT time together!

Although they made MANY excellent rational arguments before the Russian Supreme Court, their arguments were not as pointed as the Russian bayonets

Sharks everywhere know about "points", but even in Russia, even THEY show the Society's Lawyers .... Professional Courtesy.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

*coff*

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

*coff*

Yes! No wonder you are coughing when you see the amazing accomplishment of those eight dear men you have pictured! 

Look at the witness they have given! And all of our brothers worldwide who wrote in have a share! And, of course, our 175K brothers in Russia are the real heroes. 

Note the two pronounced and permanent spikes in web traffic to jw.org following the April 20th verdict and the July 17th appeal! You have good reason to praise these men, @James Thomas Rook Jr. I understand why you would do it. Millions of people check to see if jw.org is truly extremist as reported. Of course, they see it is not. What an amazing service they have rendered to Jehovah - almost as much as certain ones who go online and do nothing but bitch!

However, James,, you should remember that they are but men, who give all glory to Jehovah. You should not be worshiping these guys.

 

.    https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/jw.org

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

TTH:

I will TRY to hold my genuflection down to a reasonable level ...

[Srecko Sostar]

 

7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

amazing accomplishment of those eight

 they had hard time while defending "The Truth" of JW church. They must be very worried about expenses of the trip/voyage) and Court and if they fail to free Russian WT org/corp.

I had also some expenses while before Military Court in 1980 in Belgrade (ex Yugoslavia) because of "neutrality" issue. They gave me lawyer (attorney ex officio) but i stand by my self in fact. In those time first man of Yugoslavia Bethel  (in Belgrade) told me to not tell that i refuse military service because i am JW, but because my "bible trained conscience", ---that switch on little lamp inside me, but hey, who am I to question things??:))))))

All at all to make long story short, I get 3 years prison time, and have to pay all expenses from my pocket. Not from WT black days funds ahahahaa.        

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In those time first man of Yugoslavia Bethel  (in Belgrade) told me to not tell that i refuse military service because i am JW, but because my "bible trained conscience",

That sounds like good counsel to me.

 

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

in Belgrade (ex Yugoslavia)

My father-in-law was born in Zagreb. My son has been to Belgrade many times.

 

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I get 3 years prison time,

I have never been imprisoned. I do not know if I would hold up well or not.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

...

 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

like good counsel

Hi Tom! I was born in Zagreb and living here. 

Prison is not hard, but prisoners :)))))

Counsel from late brother Miloš Knežević was because not to bring problems to society in YU, so from other perspective we can talk now how WTorg was/is ready, determined to instruct rank and file members in that way to protect corporation, and to put all responsibility on "personal decision"  which, whose are product, not primarily in members clear perception and understanding that came from his inside, from that person,  and by that  is his/her unique and only one possible choice made on foundation of conscience.

Such or similar decisions in JW world, are made on "bible trained conscience" as product of doctrines and instructions of society. Not because I or you or anyone else come to such conclusion by inspired revelation inside our mind in one crucial and inimitable moment  of life. I can agree on religious, pacifists, humanitarian or philosophic reasons to not to go to war. JW are not unique in refusing military service as they claim (preaching service too) Members of Adventist church and Nazarian church was with me in the same prison also. And they do that also from the same main reason as JW, because members doing that what they have to do as members. 

Religious people as JW, have two sort of conscience. One is Natural, God given sense, from birth. Second sort of conscience is "trained" by WT org, by bible, by society, by tribe, family, books .... So, as one person growing, he/she forming mix of rules what is acceptable and what is not. Sometimes first and main natural sense can not go on daylight because of learned, trained, instructed, artificial conscience. And that artificial conscience is on work when they do not want to say hello to ex members. How i know that? I looked into the face of such person and  see amalgam of pride, hidden shame, stubbornness, guilty, fear of men, fanaticism. 

 

 

 

 

 

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[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Thank You so VERY much Sereko Sostar:

I have been looking for a rational explanation for this for many years, and was not able to discern it.

The concept of NATURAL and ARTIFICIAL conscience, with the evidence, which I have also seen, was the key to understanding.

I only knew from my observations that "something" was polluting the system, as REAL Justice, reasonableness and common sense  does not exist, anymore, within our ranks ... and with the clear Bible trained conscience ... I did NOT see the painfully obvious with the clarity you just now provided.

THIS ALONE has made the years I have been bashing my head against the JW-Archive wall worth while, and I appreciate it.

Your experiences and insight  answer that all important question ...

... WHY?

JTR

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

like good counsel

Hi Tom! I was born in Zagreb and living here. 

Prison is not hard, but prisoners :)))))

Counsel from late brother Miloš Knežević was because not to bring problems to society in YU, so from other perspective we can talk now how WTorg was/is ready, determined to instruct rank and file members in that way to protect corporation, and to put all responsibility on "personal decision"  which, whose are product, not primarily in members clear perception and understanding that came from his inside, from that person,  and by that  is his/her unique and only one possible choice made on foundation of conscience.

Such or similar decisions in JW world, are made on "bible trained conscience" as product of doctrines and instructions of society. Not because I or you or anyone else come to such conclusion by inspired revelation inside our mind in one crucial and inimitable moment  of life. I can agree on religious, pacifists, humanitarian or philosophic reasons to not to go to war. JW are not unique in refusing military service as they claim (preaching service too) Members of Adventist church and Nazarian church was with me in the same prison also. And they do that also from the same main reason as JW, because members doing that what they have to do as members. 

Religious people as JW, have two sort of conscience. One is Natural, God given sense, from birth. Second sort of conscience is "trained" by WT org, by bible, by society, by tribe, family, books .... So, as one person growing, he/she forming mix of rules what is acceptable and what is not. Sometimes first and main natural sense can not go on daylight because of learned, trained, instructed, artificial conscience. And that artificial conscience is on work when they do not want to say hello to ex members. How i know that? I looked into the face of such person and  see amalgam of pride, hidden shame, stubbornness, guilty, fear of men, fanaticism. 

 

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

59 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The concept of NATURAL and ARTIFICIAL conscience

Dear friend James,

Thank you very much for your response.

This clarity and reveal, answer about this issue came to me recently, so do not feel sad for your mind opening so late in life, hehehe.

I found how very important thing is to get out of WTJWorg thinking box (that has been my life/religious space all this decades). Between, inside boundaries of WT theology, often is not possible to see more than WT scholars let for average JW to see. Reasons for that can be many, on behalf/side of WT and every member of course. 

Some ex-JW lamentate on YT how WT do not gave them to celebrate Christmas, birthdays. To me such things are not of crucial importance. But is example of slavery for members. It seems more important to me to let ourselves permission to freely investigate, search and listen pro et contra facts and opinion. I was reading some of your thoughts and found it very new to me and important.  

Thanks!            

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

I still think  Jehovah's Witnesses are "the only game in town"  as far as the 15% core theology goes ... but the 85% complete drivel and artificial tyranny has a very high cost in the loss of innocent lives of those who recognize the difference, and cannot stand it.

I probably endure injustice and tyranny better than most ... BUT I DON'T LIKE IT.  

Not so much for me, but for the innocents who can't handle it, and are CHASED AWAY!

With BILLIONS of hours witnessing globally, the "churn", or turnover rate of we who are blessed with true basic core theology is here in the United States about 77%.

It SHOULD be very close to ZERO.

It currently takes about 25 MAN YEARS of witnessing to get ONE convert, who stays.

It's more effective to get married, have three children, and raise them correctly to ignore the tyranny, to about age 30.

[TrueTomHarley]

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Counsel from late brother Miloš Knežević was because not to bring problems to society in YU, so from other perspective we can talk now how WTorg was/is ready, determined to instruct rank and file members in that way to protect corporation, and to put all responsibility on "personal decision"

No. I do not think your take is correct. 

There is no way proscecuting authorities are not going to know what religion you came from, and this will make "problems" for them regardless of what you say. That is especially true when young men of that religion routinely refuse military service as they come of age. It won't matter what they say - the fact that they come from a certain religion will cause problems for that religion in the eyes of YU government.

He was probably giving you your highest chance of success, for the Bible is more respected in the country than is the JW religion. Attach your refusal to the highest cause possible if you want to maximize chances of success.