1290 and 1335 days

[Noble Berean]

5 hours ago, John Houston said:

And as I understand my reading the scriptural account of how things began, Jesus was the one having insight, correct? He then taught ones who would go and teach others. He chose 12 close associates who had intimate knowledge, that the others did not have, and even among this group there were some who knew things that the rest did have privy to. Yet they were in union with the love that Jesus stated would be the identification mark of his true followers. These chosen ones, were given certain responsibilities of leadership, trained to do so from the beginning. We all know there has to be such leadership. Are theses ones, the 7 the only ones with this insight? No, by my last count, there were over 8 million of us in that unity of love as Jesus stated at John 13:34,35. We are all on the same page. Yet remember when the fish and bread was fed, how was it done? A run up on the baskets by the hungry people, or organized? Did not Jesus give it to these 'leader' and they passed it out among the people? Would you have turned it down because it came to you this way? Or are you humble enough to accept and let our imperfections take a back seat, because we are trying our very best to leave this plane of existence, either Heavenly or in the new world after the dust settles.

I for my part want this food, I am hungry and if theses 7 men are the ones with the responsibility to feed us let's eat. If they have squandered the responsibility, who will hold them accountable, us? Where have you read in Bible accounts that the people have successfully changed what was wrong theocratically in Jehovah's service? Did not He take care of things always? Patience, my friends. Love and patience. Eat and take in the spiritual food being served. Our studying of the Bible will show us if there is such deviation that many are searching for. This is Jehovah's organization, not theirs, they are custodians while here on earth. Jesus is the head, correct? If that is correct, then he is aware of all the misgivings everyone here sees! That is what humors me. Many forget that variable many times when the debate things having to with things that do not belong to them! We are not stockholders, we have no dog in that fight. Our own personal salvation is at stake, not theirs. What happened to Korah? I and my family are trying to serve Jehovah and his Son is set up as King. I pray to be among the many who will be there. The sanctification and vindication of Jehovah's name is what is paramount, even for Jesus. Nothing else matters! Comsider and pray about this. Good day, my friends!

I think the issue is not that people are taking the lead. That's understandable. The issue is that the GB has total, unchallenged control over scriptural interpretation. What scriptural basis can be used to defend that? Is there evidence that the apostles behaved this way?

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Gone Fishing said:

Once these time periods are properly understood, I have a feeling there will be no ambiguity at all, and a lot of people will be saying "There. I always said it was something like that!".

In the meantime, one might consider a missed date as the time you swung a hammer and missed the nail. And the dates all around as the frustrated swings you took thereafter, also missing each time.

[Anna]

38 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

In the meantime, one might consider a missed date as the time you swung a hammer and missed the nail. And the dates all around as the frustrated swings you took thereafter, also missing each time.

We've got to remember though that we are not swinging the hammer, that's left up to the Slave. All the dates we've ever had were put out there by the Slave. We just either agree with the dates or not...

[Anna]

1 hour ago, Noble Berean said:

The issue is that the GB has total, unchallenged control over scriptural interpretation.

Well, the answer to that I guess is if you don't agree with their scriptural interpretation you go and find a religion that you agree with. So really, the ball is still in your court. You don't have to believe anything they say. But I know what you mean. However, how would that work in a practical way....that kind of doctrinal democracy?

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

We've got to remember though that we are not swinging the hammer, that's left up to the Slave. All the dates we've ever had were put out there by the Slave. We just either agree with the dates or not...

Well...it is like when I am expected to lead the car group with all sisters who know the area better than me. "Just tell me what you want to do, Shelly, and I'll bless it."

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

However, how would that work in a practical way....that kind of doctrinal democracy?

I'm for 2333. It has a lot of 3's in it, my favorite number.

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

The people of God, in the past, believed many wrong things about his God and his purposes, and yet remained the people of God. The people of Judah believed that they had contracted a "pact with death" and believed that Jehovah would not have them never punished because they had the Temple. On many occasions the Israelites did wrong and had misguided ideas about God's personality.
So the point is not "change religion" because there is only one people of God.
Paradoxically some "people in the world" can be better and more spiritual than some brothers. In the Bible, we have many examples of non-Israeli people (Raab, Rut, the Roman soldier who shows more faith in the Israelites, the Syrian-Phoenician woman with his damned daughter, etc.) who were blessed for their faith and, on the contrary, many belonging to God's people who were rejected for taking everything for granted and not really "seeking Jehovah".
We must not think that every thought that is not in line with the governing body is apostasy or serves to weaken the faith.
We carefully study the Bible without having a stinging attitude towards any human being.
The Bible was written for each of us

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

 

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

This is roughly the map that indicates the sequence of events.
There are many other details that have not been written but it was not possible to write everything. It's incomplete.
Before criticizing or screaming "at the apostate", take the Bible and compare all the scriptures mentioned. Enlarge the image well.
Good meditations at all

[Noble Berean]

20 hours ago, Anna said:

Well, the answer to that I guess is if you don't agree with their scriptural interpretation you go and find a religion that you agree with. So really, the ball is still in your court. You don't have to believe anything they say. But I know what you mean. However, how would that work in a practical way....that kind of doctrinal democracy?

I don't want to leave the organization. There's many things I admire about it. I just don't understand why every JW has to be in 100% agreement with all GB directions. I don't think the organization would descend into chaos if more matters were treated as conscience decisions. There are already areas of conscience like entertainment and the religion hasn't fallen apart over that.

[Anna]

3 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

I don't want to leave the organization

I hope you weren't thinking I was suggesting you leave. I would never suggest that to anyone! It was meant in a general way, and as you probably know, I am in agreement with you on many things.

3 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

I don't think the organization would descend into chaos if more matters were treated as conscience decisions. There are already areas of conscience like entertainment and the religion hasn't fallen apart over that.

That is true, to an extent, and I agree with you that the issue is "that the GB has total, unchallenged control over scriptural interpretation". But there is nothing you and I can do about that right? I mean to make them change that. So the options are either to leave or do our own thing regardless (conscience). The second option sounds good to me . But one has to be mindful of the fact that if the GB were too lax about certain things we could end up just like every other denomination of Christendom, whose clergy tickle their ears,  and be of the mind that it doesn't matter where we belong since the "church of Christ resides in each individual anyway" ....It seems like it is the Church's cop out for not keeping the congregations spiritually and morally clean like the 1st Century Church was,  and as you know, JWs are trying hard to be like the 1st Century church...

https://www.allaboutreligion.org/first-century-church-faq.htm

 

 

[Noble Berean]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

But one has to be mindful of the fact that if the GB were too lax about certain things we could end up just like every other denomination of Christendom, whose clergy tickle their ears,  and be of the mind that it doesn't matter where we belong since the "church of Christ resides in each individual anyway" ....It seems like it is the Church's cop out for not keeping the congregations spiritually and morally clean like the 1st Century Church was,  and as you know, JWs are trying hard to be like the 1st Century church...

Yes, there is a balancing act that is necessary. I don't agree with the organization becoming tolerant of everything, but I think matters like the rejection of blood transfusions and shunning df'ed children are crossing a line of control. I just can't stand behind those things. It violates my Bible conscience. I know that puts me in a bad place in this religion.