Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses

[Space Merchant]

5 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Nor disapproval.

Or that, some people forget God uses man in order for his Purpose and Will to go out to the people. There is tons of examples in the Bible as it is.

[JOHN BUTLER]

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.

You know exactly what i mean Tom.

You wrote : "Now, there is nothing significant that enters the meeting content without the express approval of Governing Body members," 

My point was that the GB are only men and therefore the content of the meetings being approved by men means nothing. It's not as if those GB members have any special link to God. So meeting content is just men talking to men, to decide what they will tell the congregants this time and next time etc. It is funny how they have to keep coming up with things for each meeting and each magazine.  

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 minute ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

You have redeemed yourself my son for your past transgression of being part of this world “Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me” (criticism) even if it means upsetting EVERYONE!

 

Too bad, allensmith34 is not around to see what the parrot already knows. Who’s who? This is why the GB are guided by God’s holy spirit instead of being guided by man’s earthly news. ?

 

What real honest proof do you have that the GB are guided by holy Spirit ? 

[JOHN BUTLER]

5 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

What real honest proof can be provided that they are not? If Jesus is the truth, and he himself invoked it and passed it to the apostles which in turned urged people to find reputable men to continue Christ teachings, then what is faith for the faithless.

 

I think I've given many reasons to show that the GB are not guided by holy spirit. If I repeat myself some on here moan at me for being repetitive. 

It's nice to see that you say Jesus is the Truth.   Many JW's say they are 'in the truth', but they mean they are in the JW Org. As you have said Jesus in the Truth, not the JW org. 

As for the 'reputable men' where are they ? Not the GB of the JW Org, nor the puppet elders. 

[Space Merchant]

8 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I think I've given many reasons to show that the GB are not guided by holy spirit. If I repeat myself some on here moan at me for being repetitive. 

But these are reason by a sole individual, which is you. One cannot know for certain, but the most obvious thing when it comes to one's spiritually and how it benefits him/her and those around him/her.

10 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It's nice to see that you say Jesus is the Truth.   Many JW's say they are 'in the truth', but they mean they are in the JW Org. As you have said Jesus in the Truth, not the JW org. 

But if I recall, Jehovah's Witnesses do speak of Jesus and do what is commanded by him and God. Examples would be adhering to the Great Commission and a list of other things. So when they say they are in the truth, it means they are on a path, their community as a whole, in a direction that is not bumpy or crooked, although all of them are imperfect.

It literally makes claim to this on their own website.

12 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As for the 'reputable men' where are they ? Not the GB of the JW Org, nor the puppet elders. 

Restorationist Christians are not puppets. If they were they'd be pushing the TR 1245 and ignore the fact that all Christians are of the New Covenant, those same Christians who make up the Spiritual House, furthermore, all members of that house have roles, in which it contributes to the church and her community.

[JOHN BUTLER]

⁶  Jesus said to him: “I am the wayf and the truthgand the life.h No one comes to the Father except through me.

Anyone that serves God properly through Jesus Christ is a follower of truth, because Jesus is the truth. 

But many JW's use the expression 'in the truth' to mean being part of the organisation, not as belonging to God through Christ.

 Quote : "Does this not apply to everyone, who follows in Jesus footsteps?"  So does a person have to be a JW then ?

Can we say, Christian sects that support hiding Child Abuse / Pedophilia in their organisation are reputable men ?  That accounts for a large percentage too. Should honest Christians follow suit?

To quote you Billy: , There needs to be a distinction otherwise, we’d be no better for being followers of Christ and unwilling to submit to God’s authority on earth. Where will we be then? if not in the hands of the devil that separates us from the truth.

You see Billy that is what I've found. The JW Org is no better than any other one.. And when I've said about the Child Abuse within the Org, others have said, yes but it happens everywhere. And here you are saying, as I've said many times, There needs to be a distinction... 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

10 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

⁶  Jesus said to him: “I am the wayf and the truthgand the life.h No one comes to the Father except through me.

Anyone that serves God properly through Jesus Christ is a follower of truth, because Jesus is the truth. 

Yes. To serve God properly. Also if you do not mind me asking, can you post the verses without hyperlinks.

11 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But many JW's use the expression 'in the truth' to mean being part of the organisation, not as belonging to God through Christ.

They express and say in the truth because they, within their whole faith community is actually professing the teachings of the church, for a church and a community is organized, thus prompting orderly worship. Technically the people who profess God and his Christ are of God, regardless, for we have examples in the Bible, especially John 4.

13 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 Quote : "Does this not apply to everyone, who follows in Jesus footsteps?"  So does a person have to be a JW then ?

It does not always apply to everyone because majority in Christendom do not follow what is true. True Christians are of organized faiths and or sole individuals, this also includes all Restorationist, be it an organized faith or a sole individual.

That being said, not everyone follows Jesus' footsteps, hence why some who put themselves to task actually attempts to or do so accordingly and correct like the early Christians have done.

15 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Can we say, Christian sects that support hiding Child Abuse / Pedophilia in their organisation are reputable men ?  That accounts for a large percentage too. Should honest Christians follow suit?

They are not a sect, for sects are a group of people with somewhat different religious beliefs (heretical) from those of a larger group to which they belong. Honest Christians are aware of sin, and they are aware that they themselves are not immune to the sins of the world, outside and what comes inside the church. Churches who follow the early Church are bounded by a type of ruling that is technically a Nazareth Vow, and if you read in the Bible what that is, it is something serious, hence why Church Disciplinary action and or investigation is a type professed by churches.

Pedophilia/child abuse is very low among a community of 8.5 million adherents.

that being said, I remember saying the faith ones follows such things will not stop them from being committed to their faith.

Child abuse is across the aboard and there are some forms of it that is very grim, even such committed by people in government and politics. It is everywhere.

23 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You see Billy that is what I've found. The JW Org is no better than any other one.. And when I've said about the Child Abuse within the Org, others have said, yes but it happens everywhere. And here you are saying, as I've said many times, There needs to be a distinction... 

Child abuse is everywhere... Yes this has been said, and what was always spoken of that it is globe and no one is immune to it, not even JWs. On the other side of the spectrum you have those prompting pedophilia and see it as no problem.

Regardless, it won't stop someone from professing a faith, especially Restorationist, for it should be known by now according to their history, they adhere to the faith as hardcore as a game addict to video games, nothing will stop them, perhaps slow them down a bit, but it will not stop the engine they are filling with coal.

Now if you want honesty, the only thing that can hinder all denominations, even JWs is strong, a very strong change in something in government and or the laws, example would be the 1st amendment in the US as to which the UN nearly got a hold of to alter, if that had been changed, it will not effect JWs, but all Americans, rich and poor. I am sure you guys in the UK have your laws of which Ms. May, who isn't clean herself, is strict on, should you lose such there would be chaos in London and many parts of the UK.

Russia is an example, think of that on a grander scale when Government, the State and a Sole Religion becomes a Triad of Power that wants to control and conquer - it will not fair well for the British or the Americans and the both of them know that it is a line they cannot cross, for if they do they cannot come back, we already see an example as of recent with the Saudis, your ally and the US' ally. A hero knows he or she cannot kill for if they do, they will go to the point of no return, in that same sense, it would be disastrous for you and JWs and everyone else should that happen - but such is inevitable.

[Judith Sweeney]

 No offense to anyone, per se...but, what I am seeing from John Butler is attention seeking and spreading of Toxicity.     Bottom line.   I mean, this topic is just being mulled over again and again to the point of redundancy.    Whew!   

[JOHN BUTLER]

Firstly SM it was Billy i was quoting when i said 'sects'. It was also Billy I was quoting when I said There has to be a distinction'.

But it seems Billy is ok with the idea when it suits him. Such as when Billy says " Can we say, Christian sects that support the killing of others are reputable men?" 

Again I quote Billy : " There needs to be a distinction, otherwise, we’d be no better...... "

But Billy, (and SM it seems), does not want to accept this need for distinction when it concerns Child Abuse. The JW org is as much in the bad news for Child Abuse as the Catholic church and others, so there is no distinction. 

However in the case of the JW Org, who promote God's name Jehovah, they are now bringing shame on that name and on God Himself. 

Plus, and I'm sure many do not think of this, they are endangering the lives of the congregants by not informing them of the increased danger of assault, either verbally or physically due to the public awareness of the Child Abuse scandal. There are such people in the world around us that do not think twice about assault and I feel the congregants should be warned and no secrets kept. 

There having been a murder in the Kingdom Hall of what was my local congregation, I'm more aware of the danger now.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-42027285

[JOHN BUTLER]

3 minutes ago, Judith Sweeney said:

 No offense to anyone, per se...but, what I am seeing from John Butler is attention seeking and spreading of Toxicity.     Bottom line.   I mean, this topic is just being mulled over again and again to the point of redundancy.    Whew!   

Thank you, you have proved my point exactly. If you scroll up to an hour ago you will see that i said 'if i repeat myself then someone will moan about it' and rightly so. I agree with you. But, different people are asking me to defend my position and my comments, so am I supposed to say no ? 

What you are actually seeing is what you don't want to see, that is, truth....  Sorry if it hurts you. 

But it's 11pm here in beautiful Devon, England, so I'm off to bed. Good night.

[Judith Sweeney]

  I know this is the Truth....i am not hurt.   I see these wonderful posts that are based on logic...from others, not you.  Your heart is seared...move on.   Bottom Line.     "England swings like a pendulum do"        Pray about this....You have been jaded by Satan...the "Father of the...what??? Yes.....the Lie.   And You bought it.    I feel sorry for you, John.     

 

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

My point was that the GB are only men and therefore the content of the meetings being approved by men means nothing.

Oh. Okay. Now I see where you are coming from. The same place that you always come from.

But it is so entirely irrelevant to the post that it threw me. My bad, of course.

3 hours ago, Judith Sweeney said:

Whew!   

Exactly.