JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"

[Equivocation]

@Witness That's a very weak response. That also throws into question Discples and Apostles who took the lead in the early congregation, i.e. some in Christendom equating Paul, Peter, and several others who were taking the lead, even some brothers who had some kind of authority, equating to God and Christ. So technically, you just jumbled together your own conclusion.

And..... You're not too hot on what was said in the letter to Timothy, or what Outta Here has mentioned. 

On the other hand, Matt was throwing out a claim that the governing body actually said this.

But let's be real here, as in, as real as a box of legos here, no one is claiming to be or being equal to God, not even an imperfect man or the governing body. You're just fitting the bill with the Scriptures talking about.

@Outta Here Pretty much if you point this out people will ignore it and won't believe it.

They'll have that "I can't believe it's not butter" reaction 🤣

[Arauna]

Yes, let every person in the organization come with their own theories of how a scripture should be interpreted. Let any person say they are anointed and then take disciples for themselves and preach their own interpretations. Yes let each one become their own God. 

This is a truly a united way of thinking - it will be similar to the world which is now so irreconcilably "united".

I just love the way these so-called bible experts think - so illogical and impractical...... quick to accuse others of being "gods" but wanting to replace those gods with their own ludicrous ideas. And quite ready to replace those gods with their own godlike opinions and authority.

 

[Witness]

On 10/30/2019 at 6:53 PM, Equivocation said:

That's a very weak response. That also throws into question Discples and Apostles who took the lead in the early congregation, i.e. some in Christendom equating Paul, Peter, and several others who were taking the lead, even some brothers who had some kind of authority, equating to God and Christ. So technically, you just jumbled together your own conclusion.

Which response?  I gave more than one.  There goes another JW, comparing the GB to the apostles.  They were inspired, the GB is not.  The elders, except for a minuscule number, are not even anointed.  

It was Peter and the apostles who said, "We must obey God rather than men!"  Acts 5:29

Our obedience is to truth.  If an anointed leads in truth, then that one leads another to Christ.  Since the GB have flunked leading people in truth, then who should we obey?  We obey Christ's teachings.  That way, we won't be found a fool.  Matt 7:26

Outta Here did a fine job listing the variations of 2 Pet 2:16

"madness"

"irrationality"

"foolishness"

"insane"

As an example of madness, irrationality, and foolishness, please consider this:  your GB has targeted the "King of the North" as Russia.  This was in 2018.  This should mean to JWs that Armageddon is nigh. Today, the wonderful announcement has been made that a media center the size of Warwick will be finished in about 5 years.  On the cusp of a raging King of the North pouncing on JWs, business goes on as usual and the excitement is hardly containable.  

"We're ramping up production in response to heavy demand" of audio-visual offerings, Zick said. "People find these materials to be useful, so we're putting more resources behind them, and we're putting everything under one roof."  Newsweek Sat, Nov 02, 2019

Then He spoke a parable to them, saying: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded plentifully. 17 And he thought within himself, saying, ‘What shall I do, since I have no room to store my crops?’ 18 So he said, ‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build greater, and there I will store all my crops and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, and be merry.” ’ 20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?’

21 “So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.”  Luke 12:16-21

 

13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit”; 14 whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. 15 Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that.” 16 But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.  James 4:13-16

 

Do YOU believe that THEY believe Armageddon is nigh?

 

[Equivocation]

8 hours ago, Witness said:

Which response?  I gave more than one.  There goes another JW, comparing the GB to the apostles.  They were inspired, the GB is not.  The elders, except for a minuscule number, are not even anointed.  

The comment in general and you kinda went off in a tangent. There goes another JW comparing? Lol, no amigo, estas siendo delirante ahora 😑. All that was said is what is read in the Scriptures is as what is said, therefore the term  "mentally diseased" concerning Apostates, especially the ones looking for some action, fits like a puzzle piece.

Ok and your point is? Not one from the Governing Body ever made a claim to be inspired at all. That was something brought up by people who assume with evidence to what was really said, in addition to that, I think some people here grilled you on this before.

Being anointed is like an invitation of God, so how are you so sure you are all knowing in this sense when you haven't even confronted or talked to them?

Plus you are going off into another subject, one, I believe another fella here who says he's anointed too, corrected you on a while back.

8 hours ago, Witness said:

Do YOU believe that THEY believe Armageddon is nigh?

Yes. That is why we have to remain awake and keep on doing the work, fortifying our faith in the process. Because the day of Jehovah is like a thief in the night, unexpected and no one knows the day  not even the Angels, not even Jesus, etc. It is something like this that even drew a late intellectual mind into the Scriptures, and my professor loves talking about him.

[Witness]

On 10/30/2019 at 6:53 PM, Equivocation said:

But let's be real here, as in, as real as a box of legos here, no one is claiming to be or being equal to God, not even an imperfect man or the governing body. You're just fitting the bill with the Scriptures talking about.

Yes, when the shoe fits.

9 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Being anointed is like an invitation of God, so how are you so sure you are all knowing in this sense when you haven't even confronted or talked to them?

Do you really believe the GB listen to the anointed found all across the world?  Do you really believe they read ANY letter from ANY of them?  Do you think they have an open door policy, allowing other anointed to voice their opinion by appointment at Warwick?  

9 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Ok and your point is? Not one from the Governing Body ever made a claim to be inspired at all.

 

Yet, their “taking the lead” is continually compared to the apostles and Moses.  They highlight both the apostles and Moses’ mistakes, to excuse their own mistakes.  

Of course, those taking the lead in the earthly part of God’s organization are not perfect—but neither was Moses. Even so, the pillar provided constant evidence of his divine appointment and of God’s approval. Note, too, that it was not for each Israelite to determine when to start moving. Instead, the people acted “at the order of Jehovah by means of Moses.” (Num. 9:23) Thus Moses, God’s channel of direction, likely gave the signal to move. Today, Jehovah’s steward class gives a clear signal whenever it is time to make a move. How does the steward do that? By means of articles in The Watchtower and Our Kingdom Ministry, new publications, and talks at assemblies and conventions. Instructions are also conveyed to the congregations through traveling overseers or through letters or training sessions attended by brothers having congregation responsibilities.  W 11/4/15 pg 4,5

…"neither was Moses”.  Uninspired men compare themselves to the prophet Moses, giving a “clear signal” when it is time to move, despite their mistakes, and comparing  this signal to the pillar of fire that God provided to lead Israel.  All of the sources of “instruction” mentioned, comes from their mouth, and not from God.  It can’t come from God, because they are not inspired as Moses was, or the apostles.  Is their signal given to all of you to “move”, really a clear one?  To believe this is madness and foolishness. Your history shows clear evidence it is not possible.  Your failed history shows how your leaders have strayed from truth.  Does a person with gangrene or a disease happily live with it, or do they make the effort to stop its progress, even cutting off the infected limb, or removing a diseased organ to save their life?  Apostates who are "mentally diseased" are numb to the effect the disease has on one's spiritual mind and body.  They allow themselves to continue to "feed" on proven madness.  To fight a spiritual disease that leads to death, a change of spiritual diet is vital.  Matt 7:15-20

16 But shun profane and idle babblings,("empty chatter") for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 2 Tim 2:16-19

Many have departed from WT's "empty chatter", failed and changed doctrine, knowing to stay would bring their spiritual downfall.  They turn to Christ and yet your organization calls them, the "mentally diseased".  

 

9 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Plus you are going off into another subject, one, I believe another fella here who says he's anointed too, corrected you on a while back.

I don't know who "corrected" me in the past, or if that person was an anointed one.    But, the majority of JWs here, do make the effort to correct me on this forum.  

9 hours ago, Equivocation said:

It is something like this that even drew a late intellectual mind into the Scriptures, and my professor loves talking about him.

Perhaps you are going off on a tangent.   But, it’s okay with me. 🙂 

[Matthew9969]

Didn't the watchtower say that some of the self appointed anointed may have mental illness?

[Equivocation]

@Witness But you are just making assumptions, nothing more. 🤔

Also no, because the focus was on the term, Mentally Diseased, but we see that you're adding quite a bit.

Why not start another thread instead of adding on?

But the question still remains, if the term Mentally Diseased is in connection with what we see in Scripture correlating with this term, Mentally Depraved concerning specific individuals, why consider us in the wrong for pulling from the Scriptures itself?

In a simple term, do you agree with what is read in the letter to Timothy or not?

I like to add that this isn't anything new, others will simply term it as, Mentally Broken or Mentally Lost, Ill Minded, Diseased Mentality, and the list goes on. An odd one I heard that even alludes to the Scriptures is "A Broken Basket". This I only heard once lol, I dunno where the girl I met learned that from but when I talked to her, she only says this about people who is quick to start something without having all their facts in order, which is no different from an Apostate starting problems for Christians.

On 11/4/2019 at 2:23 PM, Matthew9969 said:

Didn't the watchtower say that some of the self appointed anointed may have mental illness?

Do you at least have a citation or a source? 🤔

I still couldn't find that "God" source of yours, so I am just going to check "False" on that multiple choice paper.

And again, you're quite on the passage mentioned earlier and what Outta Here mentioned.

[Witness]

14 hours ago, Equivocation said:

But the question still remains, if the term Mentally Diseased is in connection with what we see in Scripture correlating with this term, Mentally Depraved concerning specific individuals, why consider us in the wrong for pulling from the Scriptures itself?

In a simple term, do you agree with what is read in the letter to Timothy or not?

Of course I do. I am sure my comments support the scripture.  If you’ll reflect on the title of this post, it gives hint that it is your leaders who utilize 1 Tim 6 to label those who question the organization’s teachings as “unruly men who cook up wicked reasonings, season their brew with poisonous lies that deceive minds”.  This quote comes from one of your conventions: 

 

 You have heard the saying, “when you point a finger, there are three fingers pointing back to you”.  Jesus said it like this:

“Hypocrite! First take the beam of wood out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the splinter out of your brother’s eye.”  Matt 7:5

JWs easily forget the false doctrines that the organization is built on, and which will eventually bring it to the ground.  Matt 7:24-27    We have a choice today, one that involves our spiritual health.  It is our obligation to heed the words of Christ and the apostles.  If we notice any deviation from these teachings, the apostle Paul says:

“Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith.”  2 Cor 13:5

If a JW is taught, admonished, expected to adhere to a new teaching that must replace an old teaching because your leaders were WRONG to begin with, who is the mentally diseased one?  It is the one who expects you to follow their guidance even though they persist in wrong teachings.  Would you keep buying a product from a retailer that has a track record of producing bad products?  Of course not!  How much more should we test, and REJECT the teachings of those who have been consistently WRONG?  If you continue to spend your spiritual life in a haven of spent teachings scattered around you, what progress have you made toward developing genuine faith?  If you continue to eat “fruit”/teaching that is rotten, you also, become mentally diseased. Matt 7:15-20

 “If anyone teaches false doctrine and does not agree with the sound teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the teaching that promotes godliness, ⁴ he is conceited and understands nothing, but has an unhealthy interest in disputes and arguments over words. From these come envy, quarreling, slander, evil suspicions, ⁵ and constant disagreement among people whose minds are depraved and deprived of the truth, who imagine that godliness is a way to material gain. From such people withdraw yourself.” 1 Tim 6:3-5

False doctrine is deprivation of truth. Truth in Christ imparts life. John 14:6  They cannot reside together.  2 Cor 6:14

Jesus was considered mentally diseased also, for speaking against the teachings of the Pharisees.  Mark 3:21; John 10:20; 8:48   Those of us who leave the organization to follow in Christ’s footsteps will find the same to be said about us.

“A disciple is not above his teacher, or a slave above his master.  It is enough for a disciple to become like his teacher and a slave like his master. If they called the head of the house ‘Beelzebul,’ how much more the members of his household!”  Matt 10:24,25

^“ When we apostles told you about the powerful coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, we didn’t base our message on clever myths that we made up. Rather, we witnessed his majesty with our own eyes. ¹⁷ For example, we were eyewitnesses when he received honor and glory from God the Father and when the voice of our majestic God spoke these words to him: “This is my Son, whom I love and in whom I delight.” ¹⁸ We heard that voice speak to him from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain. ¹⁹ So we regard the words of the prophets as confirmed beyond all doubt. You’re doing well by paying attention to their words. Continue to pay attention as you would to a light that shines in a dark place as you wait for day to come and the morning star to rise in your hearts. ²⁰ First, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation. ²¹ No prophecy ever originated from humans. Instead, it was given by the Holy Spirit as humans spoke under God’s direction.”  2 Pet 1:16-21

Now, consider your long list of changed teachings, of failed Armageddon dates…”Beliefs Clarified”.  Whose teachings do you really follow?  Those sourced in the Spirit of God, or in human interpretation – clever, ungodly myths that have captivated and corroded any true faith one may have in God and Jesus Christ?  Col 2:8  They are "clever" because JWs stay captivated to what will be produced as "new light" to come. They are "ungodly", because a lie is always, a lie.  

2 Thess 2:9-12:  "The man of sin will come with the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous and wonderful signs. But they will be lies. 10 He will use everything that God disapproves of to deceive those who are dying, those who refused to love the truth that would save them. 11 That’s why God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie. 12 Then everyone who did not believe the truth, but was delighted with what God disapproves of, will be condemned."

I know I have said similar things in previous posts on this thread, with the hope something said will "click" in the mind of some JW.

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

Mentally diseased (mental illness) 

Why would one religious magazine (with non medical educated authors of article) using Medical Terminology for dealing/clash with dissenters, opponents, members who are in "awakening mode"?

What sort of "credentials" this people have (authors of article) who making medical expertise and conclusions about other people mental health? How they making "spiritual " observations for purpose of bringing "medical" diagnose? Or "medical" observation for "spiritual" diagnose"?  

@Outta Here speaking about, JW.org  is reflecting the Bible's view.... and made pictures with madness of prophets. What ex JW or apostates or mentally ill JW/ex JW talking about self as "prophet"?? WT Society is known as exactly showing such idea about self as "prophet for JHVH".

  This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).

Well please, what reason we have to believe in such Organization  who think about self to be individual - group prophet/s and in same time giving label to other people around them that they are mentally ill? In what ever context you want to put it, Literal or Spiritual.

 

Definition of mental illness

: any of a broad range of medical conditions (such as major depression, schizophrenia, obsessive compulsive disorder, or panic disorder) that are marked primarily by sufficient disorganization of personality, mind, or emotions to impair normal psychological functioning and cause marked distress or disability and that are typically associated with a disruption in normal thinking, feeling, mood, behavior, interpersonal interactions, or daily functioning

- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mental illness

[Witness]

25 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well please, what reason we have to believe in such Organization  who think about self to be individual - group prophet/s and in same time giving label to other people around them that they are mentally ill? In what ever context you want to put it, Literal or Spiritual.

Especially since their "record" shows them to be "false prophets". 

26 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).

 

[Arauna]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

since their "record" shows them to be "false prophets". 

We happen to disagree on that. What record I have seen from those who claim to be individual "teachers" of god's word is merely an emission of hate-filled rhetoric against JWs and no true positive teaching methods or message.  

Most do not give any prophecy because they only criticize.  "Prophecy' about future also totally lacking because they spend time only criticizing JW timeline but their own timelines happen to prove that jehovah is NOT the perfect timekeeper we expect him to be. ....

[Evacuated]

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What ex JW or apostates or mentally ill JW/ex JW talking about self as "prophet"??

All do, specifically or otherwise, as soon as they speak or write about God.