Stake or Cross? How did Jesus die? What proof do we have?

[Guest Kurt]

Was Jesus Crucified on a Cross NO..mp4

 

[Ann O'Maly]

OK I lasted 16 seconds.

As soon as the video started using the 'Two Babylons' book as its source, I knew it was a dud.

Real research can be found here:

jwcross.pdf

[Evacuated]

 

7 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Real research can be found here

 

Very thorough article with an interesting acknowledgement:

"it will never be known beyond doubt what type of instrument was used to execute Jesus." 

[JW Insider]

27 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Very thorough article with an interesting acknowledgement:

This is pretty much the same acknowledgement made on the jw.org site:

"However, the Bible does not describe the instrument of Jesus’ death, so no one can know its shape with absolute certainty."  -- https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/did-jesus-die-on-cross/#insight[search_id]=457bee18-d809-4c69-8899-6c88cc0e738e&insight[search_result_index]=0

That was excellent research that Ann pointed to. Not so sure about how the presentation would convince anyone. Have never heard anyone tell me that Jesus must have died on the cross and one of the proofs is that the Watchtower used to believe it and has pictures of it. ????

[Ann O'Maly]

14 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Very thorough article with an interesting acknowledgement:

"it will never be known beyond doubt what type of instrument was used to execute Jesus." 

"It is true that it will never be known beyond doubt what type of instrument was used to execute Jesus. But there is evidence – strong evidence – that it may have been a cross." - p. 31.

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Not so sure about how the presentation would convince anyone. Have never heard anyone tell me that Jesus must have died on the cross and one of the proofs is that the Watchtower used to believe it and has pictures of it. ????

The Watchtower's prior beliefs about the cross and how it was depicted in the literature isn't used as a 'proof' that Jesus must have died on a cross, but is merely part of tracing Watchtower's attitudes about it. The author presents biblical, linguistic, archaeological and patristic evidence that is highly suggestive that Jesus' instrument of execution may well have been cross-shaped.

[Evacuated]

29 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

highly suggestive

 

29 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

may well have been

Sounds like an evolutionary science discussion

[JW Insider]

35 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

The Watchtower's prior beliefs about the cross and how it was depicted in the literature isn't used as a 'proof' that Jesus must have died on a cross, but is merely part of tracing Watchtower's attitudes about it.

I was referring to the "video" presentation that Kurt provided. Look at the point made at the 1 minute and 20 second mark in the video:  "Four main arguments used to prove Jesus died on a Cross" 1. Jehovah's Witnesses Believed in the Cross.

[Ann O'Maly]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I was referring to the "video" presentation that Kurt provided. Look at the point made at the 1 minute and 20 second mark in the video:  "Four main arguments used to prove Jesus died on a Cross" 1. Jehovah's Witnesses Believed in the Cross.

Oh I seeeee. I didn't watch after 16 seconds. I'm going to have to watch the whole thing now, aren't I? 

[Menrov]

Why is this topic always considered of great importance to JWs? The reason of His death is of importance. One is not a better Christian if he / she believes in a cross or not.

 

[Colin Browne]

Tiny Viking crucifix could rewrite history

By Arden Dier Published March 18, 2016  Newser  Facebook1193 Twitter0 livefyre408 Email Print

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2016/03/18/tiny-viking-crucifix-could-rewrite-history.html

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

I should dig deep in my pile of books really before writing this but :-

The GB of the JW Org make known that Jesus was put to death on a Stake. In the NWT (JW Bible) they use the expression 'torture stake'. Which is probably not a direct translation from the Greek.

In one of their publications they use a picture that shows Jesus hanging on a stake. His hands / wrists are  crossed over and he has one nail through the both wrists. 

In God's word we read about Thomas who doubted the resurrection of Jesus. Thomas said 

But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will never believe it.”

Jesus Appears to Thomas
24 Now Thomas called Didymus, one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.” 26 Eight days later, His disciples were once again inside with the doors locked, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”…

Berean Study Bible ·

Obviously there are many different translation of this scripture but it would appear that the word hands means hands, not wrists. And in some translations it uses the word nails = plural.  In the NWT it uses both, hands = plural, and nails = plural.  This refers to the hands only, not the feet.  

I wrote to the UK bethal and the reply i received was not good. Basically they told me not to bother them,  but to ask the elders.  If I can find the letter I would try to upload it but i may have binned it in disgust. 

So I am asking for people's opinions on this matter. Was Jesus killed on a stake or a cross  and how would you prove your point ?

 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

The book is What does the Bible really Teach 

Page 52.