Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level

[JOHN BUTLER]

Pearl Doxsey, an anointed one,  Do you know for sure this person is an Anointed One ? 

What proof do you have ?   I'm not about to jump from the frying pan into the fire. 

[JW Insider]

24 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Jesus said to His apostles (anointed) " You must be perfect just as your Father in heaven is perfect" (or something close to that) .

But they weren't were they? Paul admitted failings. Peter admitted failings. Paul chastised Peter, James and John. All of them had wrong ideas. We can think that they got all they needed at Pentecost to make them "perfect." But these failings lasted well beyond Pentecost. So we are forced to take a reasonable approach to what it means to be "perfect." There are scriptural principles which probably explain this saying of Jesus perfectly well in the context of the Christian congregation. For now, I think you will at least agree that the apostles were not perfect. Yet we can still imitate them in ways defined by scripture.

28 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Plus, the early teaching was that ALL of the Anointed are the Faithful and discreet slave class.

And the early teaching was that the great crowd were also anointed. Lately there have been articles that teach that many scriptures which were only recently applied just to the anointed, can now also be applied to the great crowd who have an earthly hope.

30 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So what gives 8 basically American men the right to suddenly exalt themselves above all the others ?

To the extent that they have exalted themselves, they are wrong. To the extent that they have tried their best be servants (a faithful slave class) they have perhaps seemed exalted, too. I don't think this is the criteria by which we accept or reject the doctrines they promote.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

They see themselves trying to organize the ......

I can understand and even accept how "they see themselves" in such role, position, call ....some sort of  leadership is needed for coordinate the work of many people.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

When those laws are not in our favor they have pushed to have them changed 

Such statement reveals hypocrisy of sort (on GB side, not Your's) . Namely, WT  literature explained how is  Strongly Unacceptable that JW members engages in any social change of this Old World, who was alienated and condemned by God. They illustrate this with picture of "sinking ship", and with; Why to try save or improve system that will soon be destroyed by god.

GB Involving in change of Legislative and Law of some Country is more then just looking for "social change", for example; solving medical problems, charity kitchen for poor, shelters for homeless people (or animal) ...etc. GB instructions say NO, for such activity of their members.  

WT qoutes:  When Jesus gave his preaching commission, he did not instruct his followers to preach social or political reforms, union of Church and State, or any other secular ideology. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012324#h=10  We do not lobby, https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2016288#h=36   Reformers try to get society to rethink its approach on issues. They do not just protest; they have ideas about how to improve things...                                                                                                    Yet, Christ did not initiate a campaign ... https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102004202#h=28    

As You said GB "HAVE PUSHED to have them changed". How they Pushed them? Asking for Law Changes. Who can making Law changes? Politicians? I believe how they are involved very much in this process.    

...to be continue

[JOHN BUTLER]

3 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

But they weren't were they? Paul admitted failings. Peter admitted failings. Paul chastised Peter, James and John. All of them had wrong ideas. We can think that they got all they needed at Pentecost to make them "perfect." But these failings lasted well beyond Pentecost. So we are forced to take a reasonable approach to what it means to be "perfect." There are scriptural principles which probably explain this saying of Jesus perfectly well in the context of the Christian congregation. For now, I think you will at least agree that the apostles were not perfect. Yet we can still imitate them in ways defined by scripture.

And the early teaching was that the great crowd were also anointed. Lately there have been articles that teach that many scriptures which were only recently applied just to the anointed, can now also be applied to the great crowd who have an earthly hope.

To the extent that they have exalted themselves, they are wrong. To the extent that they have tried their best be servants (a faithful slave class) they have perhaps seemed exalted, too. I don't think this is the criteria by which we accept or reject the doctrines they promote.

But they got it right in scripture and in giving praise to God. Unless you think we shouldn't believe what we read in the scriptures ? 

Quote "And the early teaching was that the great crowd were also anointed. Lately there have been articles that teach that many scriptures which were only recently applied just to the anointed, can now also be applied to the great crowd who have an earthly hope."

It makes me laugh, honestly. How can anyone believe any of it then ? Where is the firm foundation of a religion that keeps changing all it's teachings ?  And more importantly, where is the spiritual guidance ?  It proves there isn't any. 

The Apostles could prove that they had God's support through Jesus Christ, by their works. The GB can prove nothing.

There are lots of religions out there that are Earthwide. Catholics, Muslims, Jews and more. So it's no good saying how well the 'good news' has been spread earthwide, the bad news has been spread even further.  The GB have proved nothing other than they can organise people to spread a message. BUT they keep changing that message to suit themselves. 

The 'light isn't getting brighter' in the JW Org, it's just changing direction and colour constantly. 

 

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

They illustrate this with picture of "sinking ship", and with; Why to try save or improve system that will soon be destroyed by god.

I think that the exception has been pretty consistent. It has always been with respect to the primary goal of finding more ways to spread the Kingdom message more efficiently.

• (Philippians 1:4-7) . . ., 5 because of the contribution you have made to the good news from the first day until this moment. 6 For I am confident of this very thing, that the one who started a good work in you will bring it to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. 7 It is only right for me to think this regarding all of you, since I have you in my heart, you who are sharers with me in the undeserved kindness both in my prison bonds and in the defending and legally establishing of the good news.

• (1 Timothy 2:1-4) 2 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness. 3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

JW attorneys have not worked with the goal of fixing this world through better laws and more inclusive civil rights, but I see no reason why this would be condemned. Cases have been argued right up to the supreme court of the United States and in high courts elsewhere with the goal of legally establishing the preaching work. (See especially Covington, Moyle and some more recent cases.)

So while it's true that Jesus did not push for social reform directly, he was concerned about protecting as many as possible from the situation that was about to come upon the lost house of Israel. Paul, however, used political leverage to help establish the preaching of God's Kingdom.

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It makes me laugh, honestly. How can anyone believe any of it then ? Where is the firm foundation of a religion that keeps changing all it's teachings ?  And more importantly, where is the spiritual guidance ?  It proves there isn't any. 

We all have the choices of many possible religions to follow. Or we can follow our own understanding which can be very dangerous. Wisdom is best found in a multitude of counselors.

This organization has not changed all its teachings. But if it had, I can't see how that matters so much unless they are currently lying about all the changes. Still, even if all the teachings have changed over time, this could even be a good sign that a filtering and refining work is going on.

Ultimately, with all the choices, I would still look for a religion that attempts to preach the good news. The content of that preaching might change . . . I would expect it to. But I would still look for a successful worldwide implementation of a preaching work based on the words of Matthew 24:14.  I would also look for a religion that stays out of nationalistic conflicts both internal and external. There are very few religions that promote neutrality and are all conscientious objectors to violence and killing for nationalistic purposes. My own understanding of God and his purpose would make me look for a religion that opposes the Trinity doctrine and opposes the doctrine of Hellfire and eternal torment.

[FelixCA]

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Jesus said to His apostles (anointed) " You must be perfect just as your Father in heaven is perfect" (or something close to that) 

Can you explain how a mortal soul can accomplish this? Perfection means a sinless state just as was Christ. Adam and Eve lost that sinless state. How can an imperfect person be perfect?

[FelixCA]

This is how the GB explain themselves when stating they are not infallible.

It seems witness keeps misunderstanding the ramification. I guess he believes the Catholic POPE when they state they are infallible.

That’s one good point to trust in God’s spirit direction instead of trusting on your own.

Personally, I wouldn’t trust someone that doesn’t understand scripture and they think they are perfect. This becomes a problem when one shares falsehoods to appease themselves rather than serve Jah.

So, how would that differ from the criticism given toward the JWorg when people believe the Org spread falsehoods?

Was the Catholic Church wrong when it stopped using soldiers like the crusaders to win a holy war? Does this not mean changes were made? Which church can be side not to change their understanding when a new discovery makes it necessary to adjust previous understanding, such as in language or time?

[TrueTomHarley]

I don’t ‘like’ @JW Insider‘s comments too much because he usually manages to slip in a bit of mischief that I’m not too sure about, even if I don’t immediately spot it, so I don’t want to leave a track record as an ally. Having said that, Man! is he ever making good sense here...and the patience displayed...the angel on my right shoulder is saying: ‘Why can’t you be like that, TrueTom?’

[The Librarian]

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Heh.... but now,today, is 0 shares, confused i am now :))))

This can happen if a title of a topic is changed even slightly. (Because the URL changes and the service tracks via the URL)

[Witness]

9 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Pearl Doxsey, an anointed one,  Do you know for sure this person is an Anointed One ? 

What proof do you have ?   I'm not about to jump from the frying pan into the fire. 

I understand, especially since the GB has tainted everything about Christ’s Truth.

1 John 4:1 -  "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."

The anointed are compared to trees and their “fruit”, or teachings -

 “Be on your guard against false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves. ¹⁶ You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?¹⁷ In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. ¹⁸ A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. ¹⁹ Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰ So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.  Matt 7:15-20

It takes effort on our part, to find the good trees.  With God’s Holy Spirit, we will be able to discern “good fruit” from the “bad fruit”.  You are already on your way to doing just that.

Pearl Doxsey has a “Personal File”.  At the bottom of that page, she describes her anointing experience. 

pearl -  personalfile . blogspot . com

[Witness]

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Personally I don't think it's about any particular leaders at all, it's just a parable showing how easy it would be --due to the apparent delay of Christ's parousia-- to act unfaithfully and unwisely if we aren't putting the interests of the "household of faith" first. It's an illustration that spends a lot more time on the ways that this "servant" might be shown to be UNFAITHFUL rather than focusing on how faithful a particular slave might be. It's about one of the difficulties in remaining faithful, as we walk by faith not by sight, putting faith in the one who is unseen.

Every word of Christ was insightful, and valuable, warning us of the end and its circumstances.  The “wicked slave” is apparent in Revelation 13:11 who directs a “Beast” that conquers the anointed. Rev 13:1, 7 The “wicked steward/slave” “beats” his fellow servants. Matt 24:48-51   The anointed Temple (1 Cor 3:16,17)  is ruled over by the wicked slave's elder body/Beast.  Rev 11:1,2; 2 Thess 2:3,4 

Hopefully, the correlation comes clear that it all depicts the same scenario.  An entity lead by a false prophet coerces the remnant to fall for a delusion.  2 Thess 2:9-12   Jesus’ words were not “just a parable” but a warning of what was to come upon the anointed remnant during the last days.   False prophets were readily spoken of throughout the Greek scriptures.  Captivity to “empty philosophy” fits right alongside with the teachings of false prophets.  Col 2:8