Forced "new light", but only slightly

[Shiwiii]

4 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I do not think God or Christ would put this pressure on young children. 

I agree with you, there is NOTHING Christ-like about allowing CSA or any abuse to continue because the "laws" of men don't require reporting it to the police. 

Can you even imagine, when the time comes, and Jesus is standing there asking each and every one of us about our life choices. When He asks, are some people really going to say "well, there wasn't a law stating we had to report CSA/abuse to proper authorities" 

Romans 14:10"...For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; ¹¹ for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
    and every tongue shall confess^[b] to God.”

¹² So then each of us will give an account of himself to God."

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

Any comments on JW Elders using Clergy Privilege to withhold information of child abuse ?

Just a paragraph form a report online :-

The two elders didn’t tell police. They, and the congregation, now face a lawsuit from the Delaware attorney general accusing them of violating the state’s mandated reporting laws. The defendants claim the elders were protected from having to report the abuse by a legal exemption for clergy.

Is this a massive loophole ? 

[Shiwiii]

1 minute ago, Anna said:

This was not what we were discussing. We were talking about the elders being mandated or not mandated to report. What you have mentioned above has nothing to do with that. And I have no idea why you would think I thought it was ok for the victim not to report, ...

Anna, it IS what we are discussing, what made me think this:  this:

38 minutes ago, Anna said:

If the victim doesn't speak out, then there is nothing to report, is there?

 

2 minutes ago, Anna said:

What you have described happens in ALL spheres of society, religious or non religious.

And so that makes it ok???????? are you serious?!?!?!?!?   As people who profess to follow the BIBLE shouldn't the conduct be that above other spheres of society? Or do you feel its ok because everyone is slime? so we might as well be slime too. Sheesh

 

4 minutes ago, Anna said:

Who is covering up?

the wt/gb/etc. For reference you can research all of the surrent and past court cases involving CSA in the US/Canada/Australia/England/Germany/Norway/......shall I continue? 

 

6 minutes ago, Anna said:

If it is not up to the elders to report (by law) then it is up to the victim/survivor/family/friends/ or anyone else (like John Butler) to report.

there is NOTHING Christ-like about allowing CSA or any abuse to continue because the "laws" of men don't require reporting it to the police. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Anna said:

If these people do not want to report, as I have already mentioned, it is their right not to. And if it is someone other than the victim/survivor,  they will have to consider whether or not they will honor the wishes of the victim/survivor who does not want it reported.

So when the ms or elder molests a child and tells the child that he/she will kill them or their family or the family dog , scares them into submission, its ok because they didn't want to tell. Is this what you are saying? Or how about the wife that is getting the crap beat out of her and fears for her life, let it continue because she is scared to report for fear of more abuse? Riiiiight. Sounds like a good plan Anna. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

Paragraph 17. What is the role of the judicial committee?

" The elders do not interfere with law enforcement; they leave criminal matters to the secular authorities. "

But they may withhold paperwork / documents /notes, from the police or authorities, even when requested to hand them over. 

[Shiwiii]

6 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Any comments on JW Elders using Clergy Privilege to withhold information of child abuse ?

Just a paragraph form a report online :-

The two elders didn’t tell police. They, and the congregation, now face a lawsuit from the Delaware attorney general accusing them of violating the state’s mandated reporting laws. The defendants claim the elders were protected from having to report the abuse by a legal exemption for clergy.

Is this a massive loophole ? 

Of course it is. It is the MO of the wt in general. Sadly the good people who belong to this org can't see it yet. They will when the wt/gb pins the onus on the individual instead of the group. Loopholes are common in wt and often used in supporting their view of scripture. 

[Anna]

14 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Yes but if there are not two witnesses then there will be 'no case to answer', especially if the accused is an Elder. 

And if there is 'no case to answer' then there will of course be nothing to report to the authorities. 

Do you think secular authorities need some kind of proof? I am sure you know they do. You have experienced that yourself.

Let's think of a hypothetical case. Let's say a single mother of a child, whom she knows well, notices that her child has been acting strangely recently. She becomes suspicious something is not right, and eventually her mother's instincts tell her someone has been messing with her child. She has no idea who, or she might have suspicions. She talks with her child, and eventually the child tells her that elder "touchy-feely" has been putting his hand up her skirt. She finds out more details, like perhaps since when, and how often and, where. All this depends on the age of the child of course. What do you think the mother should do now?

[Anna]

8 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

If the victim doesn't speak out, then there is nothing to report, is there?

Ok. What would you do if the victim doesn't speak out?

[Shiwiii]

1 minute ago, Anna said:

Ok. What would you do if the victim doesn't speak out?

you're taking us down a hypothetical right? 

If nothing is said and no one knows anything, then yes on your technicality there is nothing to report ( see John, its the loophole thing again). However, we're NOT talking about hypothetical, we're talking about real life and real people and real situations, or else there wouldn't be any lawsuits....right?   

[Anna]

6 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

you're taking us down a hypothetical right? 

If nothing is said and no one knows anything, then yes on your technicality there is nothing to report ( see John, its the loophole thing again). However, we're NOT talking about hypothetical, we're talking about real life and real people and real situations, or else there wouldn't be any lawsuits....right?   

We are  talking about real life, you said it yourself:

47 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

 *So when the ms or elder molests a child and tells the child that he/she will kill them or their family or the family dog , scares them into submission, its ok because they didn't want to tell. Is this what you are saying? Or how about the wife that is getting the crap beat out of her and fears for her life, let it continue because she is scared to report for fear of more abuse?

therefore as you say: "If nothing is said and no one knows anything, then yes on your technicality there is nothing to report" And that's all that I was saying. It wasn't my technicality was it? Read your quote above*

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

2 minutes ago, Anna said:

Do you think secular authorities need some kind of proof? I am sure you know they do. You have experienced that yourself.

Let's think of a hypothetical case. Let's say a single mother of a child, whom she knows well, notices that her child has been acting strangely recently. She becomes suspicious something is not right, and eventually her mother's instincts tell her someone has been messing with her child. She has no idea who, or she might have suspicions. She talks with her child, and eventually the child tells her that elder "touchy-feely" has been putting his hand up her skirt. She finds out more details, like perhaps since when, and how often and, where. All this depends on the age of the child of course. What do you think the mother should do now?

Go directly to the police or a local authority. Do not go to the body of Elders. Trust no one, but know that God allows those secular  authorities to be there to do His work. 

Now I'm presuming that the single mother and child has good standing in the congregation of course, so that no accusations can be 'slung' at them by the Elders in retaliation. 

Not so in my case, as I've already been accused of slander and was threatened of being disfellowshipped before i left..  

I never did hear back from the Police that i contacted online.  

[Shiwiii]

1 minute ago, Anna said:

We are  talking about real life, you said it yourself:

 

so then there you have it, it should be reported because it is abuse and sometimes the victim will not come forward based on fear of more abuse. How is that to happen in your scenario? not a single person knows of the abuse, not one. But when elders do know about it they refuse to report based on no mandatory reporting laws. 

Again, there wouldn't be lawsuits if this weren't real. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

11 minutes ago, Anna said:

Ok. What would you do if the victim doesn't speak out?

I just wish i knew the Name of that young girl. I would have more to act on then.