JW OPPOSERS GROUPS

[Anna]

18 hours ago, Outta Here said:

"Better use of dedicated funds" is a phrase I hear frequently. Isn't that more appropriate? "Saving" money implies hoarding it up somewhere. I think we are more in the business of using resources aren't we?. Compare Matt.25:24-27 😊

Yes, that is better put, and I have heard brothers say this. Of course we aren't going to hoard any money because we know what the scriptures say about that. But that wasn't really what I was talking about. It was more to do with it being Jehovah's direction. But then JWI will probably remind me that since we are a faith based organization, then anything we do will ultimately be seen as God's direction, even if something isn't.. I don't really have a problem with that. What I don't like seeing is this being used as some kind of tool to make people acquiesce, or as a kind of passive aggressive manipulation by some, or as a cause for being judgemental. ie. If you don't obey, you must be less spiritual than me. With so many unbalanced individuals around, this could cause unnecessary stress I think. What I'm trying to say is I would prefer if it was presented as it really is: a sound financial decision which "makes better use of donated funds" and in order for it to work, your cooperation and support is needed and appreciated, and thank you.  🙂

14 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Because it's a mind controlling technique to brainwash you into believing that the governing body is Jehovah.

That’s not what I had in mind. In fact every Witness knows that the GB is not Jehovah. But they also know that the Bible talks about obeying those taking the lead, i.e. the elders in a congregation which includes members of the GB since they are also elders. Do you have something against that scripture?

14 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

It is good that you are questioning their tactics.

I don't need your approval 🙂

 

 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

going to hoard any money

I think a person should put money away for certain projects. We know that most projects go over the projected budget because of inflation, unexpected problems, rising costs, etc.. So a discreet person that is busy with a large project will put away money where it can gather interest until it is needed.  The GB is often involved in large projects- they would not be smart to not factor this in.

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

think that here in the UK half of every congregation is old peopl

Yes, less and less are looking to God for solutions. Wicca, Islam and atheism taking over....... but I suspect that many more honest-hearted people will find the truth when one world religion (Satans's moral standards)  is forced on all of us.

How far Agenda 21 and Agenda 2030 of the UN will get  one cannot tell........ but it will improve public transport exponentially. 

"On every corner like gas stations" ...... or on every corner a "different designer church."  When I lived in USA it was a joke to me how many churches there were catering for the different groups of peoples and their desires.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I think a person should put money away for certain projects. We know that most projects go over the projected budget because of inflation, unexpected problems, rising costs, etc.. So a discreet person that is busy with a large project will put away money where it can gather interest until it is needed.  The GB is often involved in large projects- they would not be smart to not factor this in.

The ONLY environment I know of where it would be smart NOT to factor this in is religion, where apparently contributed money NEVER stops flowing in, like a Japanese Tsunami.

Double negatives make my head hurt!

It appears that Kingdom Halls, like old people, and radioactive materials, have a "half life".

I am 73, so statistically, half of people my age will be dead in 10 years. At 83, half of those people will be dead in ten years.

Then it speeds up.

At the end, I hope to read about it on the Internet .... BECAUSE ... I read FOXNEWS, and not CNN.

[JW Insider]

On 11/11/2019 at 5:15 AM, Outta Here said:

"Better use of dedicated funds" is a phrase I hear frequently. Isn't that more appropriate? "Saving" money implies hoarding it up somewhere. I think we are more in the business of using resources aren't we?. Compare Matt.25:24-27 😊

They should definitely be always finding better ways to use dedicated funds. I agree. But I never thought that doing something because it "saves money" implies hoarding money up somewhere. When the GB and accounting offices at Bethel have announced cost-cutting measures, they are saying that it "saves" money to be used elsewhere. When they have announced that money coming in isn't keeping up with money going out, they are definitely not in a position to hoard money.

But I have never had the impression, as Anna has, that they are completely hiding this idea of needing to find new ways to save money. It also seems like a bit of a sacrifice for some of us in more affluent countries is helping to fund new and better Kingdom Halls in countries where the Kingdom Halls are in need of repair. I also think that some funds had been put into several translation offices which has obviously paid good dividends in terms of results.

I don't know if I mentioned it before, but because of my son's work project in Anguilla, I have been going there just about every year for a few years now, and last year spent a week of the time in St. Maarten, where most jets land, because Anguilla's airport is so small. The Kingdom Halls in St. Maarten were still in terrible shape even after some remodeling and rebuilding, and I was surprised at this. I saw one on the French side of the island, too, in bad shape. The brothers told me that it's not good to build something that looks so much nicer than the neighborhood around you. Perhaps Melinda knows if this is typical in the Caribbean.

[Anna]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

But I have never had the impression, as Anna has, that they are completely hiding this idea of needing to find new ways to save money

I don't think they're hiding that we need money, (periodic reminders of how much things cost). I just think that sometimes creating new ways of saving money is put forward as a spiritual benefit, rather than what it is, a financial benefit. There's a rumour going round where I live that 25 elders have been demoted because they wouldn't cooperate with the arrangement. I wonder what was on the elders minds? The spiritual benefit, or the financial?

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

The brothers told me that it's not good to build something that looks so much nicer than the neighborhood around you.

Interesting

@JW Insider let me illustrate what I mean, I have mentioned this on here before. After the fall of communism the brothers of one small town in Europe got together and with their own hands and own resources built a beautiful Kingdom Hall. The congregation was thriving well for the next 30 years. Then two years ago, one night at the midweek meeting, it was announced that the KH would be put on the market. No one knew anything about it and it came as a shock. There was a lot of upset, not only about the KH but also about the logistical aspects. There were many old timers there, who did not drive, and relied on the friends in the town to swing by and pick them up for the meeting. Now, the KH everyone was assigned to was 1 hour away.....

This is not an isolated case. I have heard of many other cases similar to this here in the US. We just had a married couple move into our hall for the same reason. They were given a choice where they wanted to go, but every KH was 2 hrs away, so they moved into our territory. It wasn't too much trouble for them as they are a young couple and both pioneers. Not so sure what the older ones did....by the way, the territory this pioneer couple lived in was very country. I guess now it will become one of those once a year worked territories.

PS. I wanted this last bit to be separate, but it still got merged with the previous reply...

[TrueTomHarley]

13 hours ago, Anna said:

On 11/11/2019 at 8:55 AM, Matthew9969 said:

It is good that you are questioning their tactics.

I don't need your approval 🙂

“Bless you, my daughter.”

Lord, spare us from condescending people.

[JW Insider]

37 minutes ago, Anna said:

rumor where I live that 25 elders have been demoted because they wouldn't cooperate with the arrangement.

Don't know if it's related, but I heard of a lawsuit or two where a Hall and property were just recently remodeled and spiffed up to be worth, 3 million, for example, but the Society was so anxious to cover financial expenses that they forced a quick sale for only one million, and now the congregations are separated to various Halls, not-so-nearby. A brother was removed because he wanted to raise this into a financial issue. But there might also be a kind of problem showing up that some get too attached to the properties that they have helped to find and fund. (Like a rich person that donates a lot for a church, or buys a pew to get his name on it.)

As you say, I'm not sure that each of these cases has been handled with proper communication. Also, I'm not sure the term 'financial benefit' is fully appropriate either. In some cases the impression was 'financial necessity.' I heard talk of financial instruments (bank loans) that would have been embarrassing not to be able to meet. The Catholic church is not afraid to announce that they have had a diocese here and there on the verge of bankruptcy, which is sometimes really no more than loan restructuring. But I don't think anyone is ready for terms like this to be used about us, yet I believe that there was a real concern about one such loan. If it becomes public elsewhere, I will post some of the information I base this idea on. If not, consider it just unsubstantiated rumor. Not worth repeating.

[Anna]

2 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The Catholic church is not afraid to announce that they have had a diocese here and there on the verge of bankruptcy, which is sometimes really no more than loan restructuring. But I don't think anyone is ready for terms like this to be used about us,

Well that is what I had in mind. I agree, we are not ready to have terms like this applied to us. That is why I think that kind of situation is "glossed over" with other terms, such as "Jehovah is guiding this" and "it's for our spiritual benefit to cooperate".

On the other hand, to be fair, I bumped into a couple of single sisters from said KH and they seemed to be pretty happy in their new one. But who knows what the reason is....new hunting grounds perhaps? 😀

[JW Insider]

Just now, Anna said:

But who knows what the reason is....new hunting grounds perhaps? 😀

Well, aren't you the cynical one?

[Anna]

7 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Well, aren't you the cynical one?

Lol, no, just realistic 😀

I've learned in life, that most decisions, no matter how noble or spiritual they appear, revolve around sex or money or both. Now call me cynical, lol.

[TrueTomHarley]

27 minutes ago, Anna said:

I bumped into a couple of single sisters from said KH and they seemed to be pretty happy in their new one. But who knows what the reason is....new hunting grounds perhaps?

The expression, I believe, is “fellowshopping.” They had disfellowshopped the old place out.

[Guest Tom Henry]

I have not experienced where the organization has told anyone what they should do with their money. Contribute, yes, how much no! Perhaps I’m attending the wrong Watchtower.

Does any witness need to get a second job to contribute, no. Are there witnesses that have a second job to expand themselves beyond their means, yes? Are there witnesses that have a second and third job in order to support their family needs, yes. Not everyone was forged with the economic ease as certain people might. Are those better off in the organization better than anyone else, no.

It seems the message of riches is being lost with what scripture meant as a simple life. The organization has advised witnesses to prepare themselves financially in case of an emergency. Doesn’t that imply, saving money and using money wisely just in case?

*** g 6/14 p. 15 How to Control Spending ***

DAVID AND NATALEINE

“Plan ahead. Don’t assume that all the money you have in the bank is available to spend. If you don’t keep money in reserve, you’ll never be prepared for emergencies, such as car repairs.

Wouldn’t that spiritual food be in line with scripture?

Luke 14:28

28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it?

I don’t see the difference when it comes to smart spending with the organization. I would be critical if it was just my money, but then again it isn’t. I have no doubt, there are better qualified people at the headquarters to handle the Watchtower financial portfolio than any ordinary witness.

The day each GB member sports a 10 million dollar mansion, or fly on a personal 15 million dollar jet, or have a 1 million dollar car to drive them 10 miles (ca. 16 km), then I will complain.