You shall not murder vs You shall not shun

[Srecko Sostar]

In the OT, there is a direct command, “Thou shalt not kill (murder)!” This command should contain God's view of human life, which emphasizes that life is holy, sacred before God, but also that people must have the same feeling about the lives of other people around them.

By reading the Bible, which describes the events before and after the occurrence of this commandment, we can see that this commandment has no absolute power. Within the same set of legal provisions, there are other commandments that were binding on the Israelites, too. For example, commands like; "Don't steal, don't lie, don't commit fornication ...". These commandments should never have been ignored or mitigated by some extraordinary circumstances.

The specificity of this commandment, "You shall not kill," is evident in the fact that it was not of valid, obligation for all men and for all circumstances. Powerful individuals in Israel sometimes making their own decisions to go on military campaigns against others (Israelis and non-Israelis) The law also justified killing for revenge.
In some other places, God commands the death penalty against an individual. Also, the Bible describes that God instituted great actions that justified killing of other people. These were most often military actions aimed at killing soldiers of the enemy army, but also their families. The killings of these other tribes and people were justified on the basis of several facts: 1) they were not Israelis  2) they lived in territory that the Israel nation were to conquer for themselves, 3) they belonged to other religions.

The execution of the death penalty for a crime still exists today in some societies and legal systems. Obviously, the death penalty decision is based on balance. The one who killed must be killed. But from some other biblical examples we have seen that murder is not the only crime punishable by death. The disobedient child was also sentenced to death. Different religious affiliations or different religious beliefs also led to the death penalty. Adultery was punished by death.

From what we have described so far, we can see how the command, "shall not kill," had a stretched meaning. It is therefore necessary to look at religious practices that are not new but may draw some parallels in symbolism and meaning. As you may already guessed, it is about an act of symbolic "killing" that is carried out in such a way to exclude (disfellowship) another person from a particular social (religious) group in a specific way - by ignoring aka shunning. Shunning (this is about JW organization in particular) can be made because of two conclusions.

The first conclusion is reached by an individual JW member who believes that another member of the congregation has wronged/sinned against the Bible and its principles to the extent that he / she personally presents a spiritual anomaly (in the form of a spiritual illness or threat) and decides to "label" particular person as inappropriate for him to have socializing contacts. He seeks to avoid contact and minimize any literal and spiritual communion.

In second conclusion, the conviction of the inappropriateness of a member is made by the body of the elders. The judgment may be based on the morally inappropriate behavior of an individual member, or it may be that an individual no longer agrees with the ideological and organizational structure or with the theological solutions of the organization what made him/her as "hostile element".

This is when a person is removed from congregational members aka "spiritually killed" in such a way to excommunicate (dfd) them (he,she) from the community and impose a ban on almost every contact with the dfd person. The ban has few variations and interpretations of how the shunning should be carried out. But the very core of such a demand not to contact the excluded person is evident from the widespread practice that JW members have consistently implemented - the excluded (dfd) is not even greeted with the simplest “Good afternoon” greeting (hallo) on the street.

JW's want to be peaceful people who go to jail in some countries because not want even to carry weapon in mandatory military service. They don't want take self-defense courses even for protect themselves when attacked. But they are motivated to be active in using spiritual weapons and warfare against ex members who are in a disagreement with doctrinal issues. And "killing" them with shunning.  

What are your thoughts? 

 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What are your thoughts? 

They are that these are not your words. Who wrote this?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

It would be nice to see any written 'rules' made by the GB or others in regard to shunning a person that has left the JW Org. Maybe JW congregants should be issued with a GB rule book of do's and don'ts. That way every one would know exactly what procedure is right when serving the GB and it's Org.  

My feeling is that in the first century, all those that became true Christians, serving God through Christ, were of the Anointed, heavenly calling. Therefore it was more important for them to be 'without spot from the world'.  So stricter discipline would be more acceptable to those of the Anointed class. 'To whom more is given, more will be demanded'.  Hence IMO, the scriptures are written for the Anointed, and then the Anointed should teach the earthly class. (The GB are not of the anointed. By their works you will know them).  So then @Srecko Sostar the questions would be more complicated. Should stricter rules apply to the Anointed than to the earthly class ?  The Anointed should be inspired of holy spirit and capable of more self control........ All those scriptures were written by Anointed ones for Anointed ones at that time.  

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

It would be nice to see any written 'rules' made by the GB or others in regard to shunning a person that has left the JW Org. Maybe JW congregants should be issued with a GB rule book of do's and don'ts. That way every one would know exactly what procedure is right when serving the GB and it's Org.

We have had a very detailed policy and rule book, organizationally, since 2010, if memory serves, ."Shepharding the Flock of God"

Unfortunately it is only "Elder Eyes Only", and Sisters are not supposed to read it.

Most JWs do not even know this book exists.

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

They are that these are not your words. Who wrote this?

I used Google translator for all text this time, perhaps that is the reason :)))))) Do you want my Croatian original?

Examples, instructions and advises are published on many places in WT magazine study articles mainly, and some specifics are in "Flock" rule book. All we need is time and patient to find it and make a list of them (by chronology, by subject...)

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

'To whom more is given, more will be demanded'.  Hence IMO, the scriptures are written for the Anointed, and then the Anointed should teach the earthly class. (The GB are not of the anointed. By their works you will know them).  So then @Srecko Sostar the questions would be more complicated. Should stricter rules apply to the Anointed than to the earthly class ?

To whom more is given, more will be demanded' - this is fine proverb. What i see in this verse is not how "classes" come to existence. 

You open interesting question. Does some "rules" are obligated to specific "class" of people inside same group of people. Or, are they "same group" if they have "classes"? Is JW one "flock" with two separate groups? It can depends on Who is the Source and Creator of structure and how He/They imagined it have to look like...... and so on.

To be inside topic, we should ask your question in this way: Does practice of shunning is only mandatory for one sort of people, "class" of JW (elders for example)? And how other JW's are not obligated to follow such strict rule in this subject?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

We have had a very detailed policy and rule book, organizationally, since 2010, if memory serves, ."Shepharding the Flock of God"

Unfortunately it is only "Elder Eyes Only", and Sisters are not supposed to read it.

Most JWs do not even know this book exists.

@James Thomas Rook Jr.

I believe this 'Rule Book' shifts the goal posts quite often, with updates on certain matters. 

Also as you say it is Elder's eyes only. So how do the congregants know proper the 'rules' then ? 

Surely each Elder could 'translate' the rules according to His own needs. 

And as you say 'Most JWs don't even know about that book. 

What does that show ? It shows that congregants are naive and blindly follow the words of the Elders. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Separate comment 

@Srecko Sostar

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

To whom more is given, more will be demanded' - this is fine proverb. What i see in this verse is not how "classes" come to existence. 

You open interesting question. Does some "rules" are obligated to specific "class" of people inside same group of people. Or, are they "same group" if they have "classes"? Is JW one "flock" with two separate groups? It can depends on Who is the Source and Creator of structure and how He/They imagined it have to look like...... and so on.

To be inside topic, we should ask your question in this way: Does practice of shunning is only mandatory for one sort of people, "class" of JW (elders for example)? And how other JW's are not obligated to follow such strict rule in this subject?

John 10:16 Jesus said :-

"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd."

So there are two folds it seems. A fold can be a hollow in the ground, or a group of people. 

I always thought a 'fold' was a fenced area in a field or farm yard. 

My point is that i think the Greek scriptures are for the Anointed to follow more closely. The Anointed are in one fold, the earthly class in a different fold. But are one flock because they follow the one shepherd, Jesus Christ. However, i think God and Christ demand much more from the Anointed because this is the testing ground of the Anointed, here and now.  The earthly class will get a thousand years to grow back to perfection, and then a final test. 

[TrueTomHarley]

12 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Most JWs do not even know this book exists.

Everybody knows the book exists.

Pioneer service school also has a book not for general distribution. Everybody knows it exists.

They either know of it specifically or they know of it in the ’Well.....duh!’ sense that they know that any training of any class of any subject in any discipline just may feature a curriculum and textbook not for general distribution.

It is not a conspiracy. The world is not flat. GM did not invent a 100 mile per gallon carburetor that they have sat upon for umpteen years.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Everybody knows the book exists.

:))) you are not a person who speaks things that are not true ...... only things you believe it is true, but you claiming funny thing with this. 

Please go to JW library, link below, and you will not find nothing about this elder's book, or pioneer's book ....they don't exist for public.

 https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/lv/r1/lp-e/0/56506

 

[TrueTomHarley]

37 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

:))) you are not a person who speaks things that are not true ...... only things you believe it is true, but you claiming funny thing with this. 

Oh? 

And you have moved beyond the limits of the flesh to speak, not just things that you believe to be true, but things that ARE true?

Next thing you know, you will be joining Witness in claiming to be the “true” anointed

[Witness]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Everybody knows the book exists.

Not necessarily.  As a "good" elder's wife, I didn't know it existed since I never looked into his briefcase; and as a "good" elder, he never told me it existed.  

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JW's want to be peaceful people who go to jail in some countries because not want even to carry weapon in mandatory military service. They don't want take self-defense courses even for protect themselves when attacked. But they are motivated to be active in using spiritual weapons and warfare against ex members who are in a disagreement with doctrinal issues. And "killing" them with shunning.  

"Covert" -  hidden or secret, such as covert military operations.

"Extremism" - the fact of someone having beliefs that most people think are unreasonable and unacceptable, such as religious extremism.

Yes, I would call it,  covert extremism.  

-----------------------

 

Keeping in mind that the organization has among its members an authentic priesthood appointed by God, (1 Pet 2:5,9)  who are “represented”/replaced by men appointed by men, Pearl Doxsey, an anointed woman, posted the following just yesterday, and it fits well with this topic.  To all readers here, please, don’t just read it and not look up the scriptures.  God’s Word reveals what we face today in the organization. 

I work to expose "Jehovah's Witnesses", by exposing the false doctrine produced by their leaders. This I do through a comparison of their doctrine, to the very Bible they claim to be guided by.

In this post, I will offer scriptures that shed light on the office of "elder", and how that office is defined by the WT, as a station by holy spirit, authorizing an "elder" to render judgment over others.

Many JWs and exJWs have observed injustice in that arrangement. This is because the WT's arrangement, authority, and power of their "elders" is exposed as a lie, according to scripture and prophecy. The only ones sanctioned by Jesus as judges, were those chosen to fill the office of priest (John20:21-23).

If God's chosen priests (being both men and women) were not trampled and stripped of power, replaced by Gentile "elders" who have no real divine authority (1Cor.3:17; Matt.24:15; 2Thess.2:4; Luke21:24; Rev.13:10,7; 11:2; Isa.28:7; Matt.24:49).......

.......then the judgments being rendered by those whom Jesus did give authority to judge, would be very different (John20:21-23; 1Cor.6:2) from those passed by "elders" today. There would be no tolerance of pedophiles, domestic abuse, or shunning of sheep. [Shunning was to be limited to those "called a brother" of Christ.... anointed, who fall into an alliance with the Devil.]

1 Corinthians 5:11; Rev.2:20; 17:6; Luke12:45

Yet this replacement of God's priests by the Gentile "man of lawlessness", was prophesied to happen.

How?

Scripture tells us, that the false prophet "breathes" into the image of the Beast (organization) so that it appears spirit-directed/(breath-infused), and authorized to condemn to death, any who refuse to worship that image (Rev.13:11,14-15; 19:20).

Jesus mentioned the "disgusting thing standing in the holy place". It is in plain sight... but as Jesus said, "Let the reader use discernment/perception/understanding" (Matt.24:15; Mark13:14; Eze.36:8).

Articles: 

“Jew or Gentile”

"Trample" - How does it happen?

4womaninthewilderness blogspot

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

It is interesting how from time to time, from post to post some unanimous individuals falling from some unknown Planet, and start giving down-vote symbol to other people comments.   :))))) 

This is funny, but also very good. Because their reaction are proof how they read comments and found it serious to such level that they (comments) in fact pressed right bottom in people's minds and feelings.