Receiving and giving with measure. Receiving and giving without measure.

[Srecko Sostar]

Dear reader.

You have often come across terms, God's holy spirit and God's love.
You have also often prayed for the favor of God, among other things asking that God's holy spirit help you, guide you, to have a spirit. Some Bible passages say that God gives something to people.

We find expressions that say how God gives:
- his spirit without measure - John 3:34.
- a certain measure of faith - Rom 12: 3
- a measure of grace - Eph. 4: 7
- measure of authority - 2 Cor. 10:13
- a double measure of blessing - Isaiah 61: 7
- double measure of inheritance - Deut 21:17
- double measure for bad deeds - Rev. 18: 6

Also how a man seeks or receives from another man:
- double measure of spirit - 2 Cr. 2: 9
- double honor - 1 Tim. 5:17

 

There are also allegations relating to love. How love is given or received and under what circumstances:

And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him. ”- John 14:21
For God loved the world, - John 3:16
I love those who love me - Prov 8:17
Your love, O LORD, reaches to the heavens - Psalm 36: 5 -7
I have loved you with everlasting love; - Jer 31: 3

 

From these statements we can see that love also works under certain circumstances. Sometimes it's eternal, going to heaven. Sometimes it is conditioned because he says: I will love you if you love me", "if you obey, listen me".

Based on the paragraphs that speak of giving / receiving a spirit, I could conclude that God gives the holy spirit to those who seek it, and those whose hearts are pure receive that spirit from God. When GB claims that they make mistakes in word and deed because they are not perfect and because they are not "spirit-inspired," then that is just an excuse. When they claim that they are not "inspired by the spirit of God," that would mean that God does not give his spirit to anyone, not even to them. So, if they, as "God's elected," "anointed," cannot be "inspired," then they are actually sending the message that no one else can be "inspired." And then such a claim has the consequence, meaning, that God and his spirit are not able to be active. God works through his spirit, doesn't he? Well, he created the universe with his spirit ?! He wrote the Bible with his spirit ?! He uttered prophecies with his spirit ?! And today the spirit is unable to act on the few people sitting in Warwick?

Does God lie when he says, "... for God gives the Spirit without limit. - John. 3:34

Is the problem in the spirit of God? Or is it a problem in humans? :))

 

 

[Witness]

This is an excellent comment, Srecko. 

Has the organization’s leaders, with their consistent errors in doctrine and prophesy, ever had God’s Spirit?

2 Pet 1:21 - "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, ²¹ for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." NKJV

“for prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men borne along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”  Mounce

"But you must understand this at the outset, that no prophecy of scripture arose from an individual’s interpretation of the truth. No prophecy came because a man wanted it to: men of God spoke because they were inspired by the Holy Spirit." (Phillips)

It is so clear; if JWs would only take the guiding scriptures to heart and not the “guiding” words of men who not only admit they are not inspired, but have proven it to be true.  

Holy Spirit at Work - the Token:  http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/07/holy-spirit-at-work.html

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Srecko Sostar  Here in the UK we would say that you have 'opened up a can of worms'  with your words above.  You have opened the way to hundreds of questions. 

And although @Witness gives some very fine comments, she/he also opens the way to many questions. 

For God to fulfil his 'plans' I would think He would need some kind of 'united people' Earth wide. And hence He would need to guide those people by using/sending His Holy Spirit to them. 

But as the GB and presumably the Writing Dept et al, admit to not receiving God's Holy Spirit  then I presume God cannot be using them at this time.

No i don't expect humans to be perfect or to act perfectly.

But I do expect anyone chosen by God, to become leaders in God's chosen 'united people', to be inspired by God's Holy spirit so as to do their jobs properly.  

As you say Srecko, God works through His Holy Spirit. He has always done so in the past, why would He not do so now ?

 

[Arauna]

9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

For God to fulfil his 'plans' I would think He would need some kind of 'united people' Earth wide. And hence He would need to guide those people by using/sending His Holy Spirit to them. 

Exactly!  There is a united loving group of people all over the earth under the name of God- jehovahs people.  The miracle is that they have unity despite being IMPERFECT.    Just like  old israel, dedicated to jehovah, individuals are imperfect and stumble like David and Solomon.  God loved David - but he did not have hundred 100% of gods spirit all the time. 

Jehovah can inspire a group of people to accomplish a purpose.  Israel of old brought forth the messiah and provided the imputus for the first congregations despite all the problems had with them. 

 The nation of God today allows for jehovah to accomplish the preaching work and guarantee survivors (a great crowd)  through armageddon.  The slave helps us to understand our stance of neutrality and morality - which will be tested.  Our faithfulness to Jehovahs kingdom government and its principles will be tested.  The slave teaches us what we need at this time......to survive Armageddon.

If you have so much of gods spirit that you can quote scriptures in a sly way to sow doubt on others who may have gods spirit? ..... Whose will are you serving?  

The facts are before you: there is a united nation for Jehovahs name - against all odds. They are preaching earth wide a kingdom government which christendom does not even understand to be a real government. Our members only vote by their loyal actions for gods government,  whereas christendom are all voting for various political factions and even going to any war their leaders wish to embroil them in. As for the godless..... we know what the bible has to say about them.

[Srecko Sostar]

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

- double measure of spirit - 2 Cr. 2: 9

 

correction 2. Kings 2:9

@Witness , I read material in link. I like wording in there speaking about knowledge in mind and love in heart. But, of course, when this two working in harmony, results (fruits) are better.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I strongly suspect that Jehovah's Holy Spirit is given in direct proportion to the amount of Spirit you actually need.... considering that Jesus Christ and the Apostles had NO Real Estate whatsoever, as part of their Organization, and only enough money for the days food, and to the best of my knowledge, just the clothes on their backs, they needed a lot ... and they received a lot of Holy Spirit.

The Governing Body has billions of dollars in Real Estate, all over the world, and controls billions of dollars worth of money, to spend as they alone see fit.

... and dat's de fact, Jack.

SOOooooo... they are on their own.

..... as are the great majority of us.

I have SEEN Jehovah's Spirit build up and sustain several of the Anointed ones, who had no strength of resources of their own, and I suspect when it is needed ... actually NEEDED .. the rest of us "ground pounders" get it as well.

That is just my guess of how it works ... no more.

...and I suspect it is INVERSELY proportional to how much you have naturally, WITHOUT Jehovah's intervention.

 

 

 

the formula for that is 1/x.

There is probably a button on your pocket calculator for that.

[Arauna]

4 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

and controls billions of dollars worth of money, to spend as they alone see fit.

Just one question for you:  when you go to meeting or field service you get to use many videos that were made to be easily accessible for all ages and peoples.  Do you have any clue what equipment costs?   Many poor congregations in Africa receive projectors from the organization because they cannot afford it.

They do still print bibles and watchtowers etc.

Do you think they must remain in the Jurassic age when it comes to using technology or will it be ok by you if they venture to use the newest tech to support the brothers?

You have a budget to fulfill your responsibilities at home.....dont you?  Why not broaden out and see that they also need money to provide services in almost 1000 languages?  

I think we need a little more gratitude and less criticism...  ALL you see is "billions" which you try to imply are used for their own purposes.... 

They are always in need of funds to make it stretch further..... because we do get all our spiritual needs fulfilled without cost.  You need not give any donation if you feel they waste it.  You can use all amenities without giving a dime! 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

My donations are always by check, and written thereon is "for local needs".

It's like paying taxes, some of which are used to make hydrogen bombs, and ICBMs.

Not my problem.

Jesus and the Apostles needed NONE of those things you mentioned, Arauna.

If you are NOT inspired of God, as the GB admits they are not ( February 2017 Watchtower), you do need all of those things you mentioned.

They are actually essential, as I would freely admit.

.... and HEY!, I am just guessing about all of this ... as is everyone else.

40 minutes ago, Arauna said:

  I think we need a little more gratitude and less criticism...  ALL you see is "billions" which you try to imply are used for their own purposes.... 

And Arauna .... did you get NOTHING out of the "Follow Jesus" Assemblies?

Jesus set the example .

We are either following that example, or .....

WE ARE NOT.

The fact of the matter is that the GB DOES use the billions for their own purposes.

but, I am, as you stated, "no one to criticize" ... as I do not follow Jesus' example either.

If I had that kind of money, I would buy a Chinook double rotor helicopter, instead of Rolex watches, and cartoons of Caleb and Sophia, etc.

uh ... for Witnessing on beautiful Pacific Islands, of course ....

 

 

[Arauna]

35 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My donations are always by check,

If you think they use it for their own purposes then why do you donate?  That is not logical.

It depends on what you define as own purposes, private purposes, public purposes, necessities, etc. 

I think you really should be more thankful to be associated with the organization and what it does for us.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

If you think they use it for their own purposes then why do you donate?  That is not logical.

I suppose I have the same attitude as Lazarus Long did, when he was pioneering a frontier planet, in the novel "Time Enough For Love", by Robert A. Heinlein.

He was a shopkeeper, who backed the paper currency he printed up for the community, with grain, instead of gold, and the system worked perfectly.

He had an employee he considered to be honest, because he stole from the company a straight 15%, and no more, and Lazarus ran the bank, and his employee ran the store.

I thought that was a VERY realistic viewpoint.

.... same thing.

When the GB starts riding around in Lear Jets, and Chinook Helicopters, I may revise my opinion.

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Well here in the UK the JW Org are selling houses for over one million pounds each in London, and I didn't even look at how much the commercial properties were. So they are into big business it seems, whilst Jesus said He was no part of this world.  I'd love to know exactly who lives in those one million pound houses before they are sold, and is it JW volunteers that refurbish the houses. 

[Witness]

On 12/13/2019 at 8:52 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

 

correction 2. Kings 2:9

@Witness , I read material in link. I like wording in there speaking about knowledge in mind and love in heart. But, of course, when this two working in harmony, results (fruits) are better.

Gal 5:22,23