Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?

[Srecko Sostar]

12 minutes ago, Anna said:

semantics.

Aspects of meaning or semantics. 

JW people, or better to say, JW leaders, with time, from past, gave specific meaning to word "clergy". And thus created new culture inside own church. Inside JW circle word "clergy" has bad connotation. Because, as word "Christendom" too, it is always about, those other people, those other churches, those other religions.

Merriam Webster explain word clergy:  a group ordained to perform pastoral or sacerdotal functions in a Christian church

[Arauna]

1 minute ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because, as word "Christendom"

Christen-dom.  These people have ruled in the past  (the dom stands for 'domain' . They have gone to war - think of crusades, inquisition, Cromwell's puritan civil war, ...too many to mention. This is why the word has a bad connotation.

[Srecko Sostar]

8 minutes ago, Anna said:

The separation of the clergy from the laity is common to many religions, but is the arrangement from God, or is it a human tradition? More important, does it have God’s approval?

 

8 minutes ago, Anna said:

“All You Are Brothers”

Perhaps some day WT Society will stop using nomenclature as, GB member, Helper, CO, Elder, MS, Pioneer etc. because one word covers all , Brother (and Sister too :)))))

Article you used is going further, speaking about distinction. We are not starting with this subject but with terminology. I suggest we stop on terminology and not talking about inside classes and distinction. Ok?

 

2 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Christen-dom.  These people have ruled in the past  (the dom stands for 'domain' . They have gone to war - think of crusades, inquisition, Cromwell's puritan civil war, ...too many to mention. This is why the word has a bad connotation.

Israel Priesthood also supported bad things. Why i am not surprised how same happened to Christen-dom.

[Anna]

8 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Perhaps some day WT Society will stop using nomenclature as, GB member, Helper, CO, Elder, MS, Pioneer etc. because one word covers all , Brother (and Sister too :)))))

Well yes, we don't say elder "so and so" or pioneer "so and so". We say brother or sister "so and so"

We don't use those words as titles. Only as descriptions of the tasks the brother or sister does.

Here is that article in Croatian

https://wol.jw.org/hr/wol/d/r19/lp-c/102009288

 

[JW Insider]

6 minutes ago, Arauna said:

You seem to not ever have belonged to a church.  I went to catholic, protestant and evangelical churches in my childhood.

True, but I've watched one on TV. (Not really) My wife was born and raised Catholic, and had just tried Seventh Day Adventist, Church of God and Jehovah's Witnesses in the 5 years between leaving the Catholic church and getting baptized. My relatives on my father's side are Bible Students and Witnesses for as far back as this was possible, but they also married into families that had been Methodists, Lutheran, etc. I've seen plenty of churchiness on documentaries of various churches.

11 minutes ago, Arauna said:

There is no way one can compare our elders with the hierarchy of the catholic church, the pomp and ceremony, the ritual, and most of all the ' costumes' and the liturgy.... as well as all the titles. One pays money for most services rendered.

Of course you can compare them. You just have to watch for similarities to compare rather than letting the differences get in the way. You are right that you need to strip away the "pomp and ceremony" but it is pretty easy to match up the altar boys with the microphone carriers, deacons with the more mature ministerial servants, the priests and pastors with the elders, the bishops with the COBE, cardinals with the circuit overseers, the Pope and college of cardinals with the Governing Body, etc. There are dozens of other similarities, along with serious and important differences.

 

Even the article that Anna offered, where one of the important distinctions is that clergy are paid falls away when we think about how our circuit overseers (and formerly district overseers) have always been paid, and how the Governing Body and their helpers and other support services are paid from the collection of our contributions. We actually have a former Bethel elder who was "retired" from Bethel to serve in our congregation, and he is "paid" by being allowed to live in a room with his wife that is part of the KH, like a rectory.

I was speaking of what people generally believe about the range of possibilities that "clergy" can mean -- not focusing on the very things that we have used to distinguish ourselves from the worst examples of clergy. The connotation of "clergy" to a Witness is admittedly skewed by our focus on the differences. But the actual differences in the meaning of the word are not so problematic. Look at the definition of clergy that shows up on a Google search:

cler·gy /ˈklərjē/

noun: clergy; plural noun: clergies

• the body of all people ordained for religious duties, especially in the Christian Church.

• "all marriages were to be solemnized by the clergy"

33 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JW people, or better to say, JW leaders, with time, from past, gave specific meaning to word "clergy".

Whoops! After coming back to my computer and responding to Arauna, I just notice that I said the same thing as Srecko. Srecko managed to make the same point in 1/10th the number of words.

[Srecko Sostar]

 

16 minutes ago, Anna said:

We don't use those words as titles. Only as descriptions of the tasks the brother or sister does.

 

When in preaching service people ask you: "Do you have clergy"? You immediately respond with, "We DON'T have clergy, we have Elders. 

@TrueTomHarley  Everybody knows it. It’s nothing more than common sense. Regardless of what elders are called, they come closest to fitting the role lawmakers have in mind for ‘clergy.’

If every JW knows this why they in preaching service respond with: "NO, we have Elders"????

[Arauna]

7 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

There are dozens of other similarities, along with serious and important differences.

Yea, I am waiting for them to come to the meeting with some gold trimming on their long clothes swinging the incense holders, censer, carrying icons, kissing the cross in a laborate ceremony ..... yes .... sounds about the same....congregants kneeling on stools... lol.

[Srecko Sostar]

15 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Whoops! After coming back to my computer and responding to Arauna, I just notice that I said the same thing as Srecko. Srecko managed to make the same point in 1/10th the number of words.

:)))) I am slow in writing and more slower in English writing. My "weapon" and "tactic" is to be short and concise how much is possible. :)))

Anna, Arauna, TTH bombing me with responds. And i am alone, sole  :))) 

Your comment helps to redirect their thinking. Now you will be "target". :))

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Oh ,no i can't expect she would tell me anything, because she are not allowed to talk with me about congregational, spiritual things.

I saw that she was about to and clapped a hand over her mouth.

31 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If every JW knows this why they in preaching service respond with: "NO, we have Elders"????

They just get a kick out of messing with you.

[Anna]

55 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Even the article that Anna offered, where one of the important distinctions is that clergy are paid falls away when we think about how our circuit overseers (and formerly district overseers) have always been paid, and how the Governing Body and their helpers and other support services are paid from the collection of our contributions. We actually have a former Bethel elder who was "retired" from Bethel to serve in our congregation, and he is "paid" by being allowed to live in a room with his wife that is part of the KH, like a rectory.

Yes, here I target you JWI 😀. I don't think this can be compared to the same level that "clergy" in general are paid. Usually CO's and others in full time service have no means of income (regular job) therefor our contributions help them to carry out their tasks without having to do secular work (also they get free lodging and free food). They have to exist somehow. And elders don't get paid anything.

"The average Clergy salary in the United States is $96,800 as of December 26, 2019, but the range typically falls between $79,600 and $109,800".

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/clergy-salary

 

 

51 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If every JW knows this why they in preaching service respond with: "NO, we have Elders"????

Because of the reasons we have already discussed 😀

 

[Srecko Sostar]

3 minutes ago, Anna said:

I don't think this can be compared to the same level that "clergy" in general are paid. Usually CO's and others in full time service have no means of income (regular job) therefor our contributions help them to carry out their tasks without having to do secular work.

"The average Clergy salary in the United States is $96,800 as of December 26, 2019, but the range typically falls between $79,600 and $109,800".

https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/clergy-salary

 

 

Requires a master's degree.

Few elders in JW church have it. 

[Anna]

3 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Requires a master's degree.

Few elders in JW church have it. 

Yes, and if they do have a masters degree, it's most likely not a degree in theology