The heavenly resurrection begins after the fall of Babylon the Great

[Pudgy]

I’ve often noticed that even spirit creatures wear clothes.

Where do they shop?

[John 12.24to28]

Not sure, but somebody told me once that Nehemiah gets a good deal on stockings...

[John 12.24to28]

If you're going shopping, you might consider getting a doghouse with more windows. I think this one is really cool...it's the one the Paw Patrol lives in (Marshall is my favorite because he's also a Tripp - he falls down at the intro of every episode.)

 

(It also has a cool slide...)

 

[John 12.24to28]

Hey, there, Boilsey-Woilsey, you are not forgotten!

 

15 hours ago, boyle said:

I'm afraid I didn't understand what you were talking about in the original thread. I would welcome your view on the preparation process of the gathering of the 144,000.

 

We learn about that process by studying how Jesus was prepared.

 

"Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.  And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him..."

 

Jesus was "made perfect" for the job ahead by means of suffering on earth.

 

He didn't need special training in heaven. His training was on earth.

 

The anointed are prepared for their heavenly assignment by means of what they suffer here on earth.

 

"...because we are members of his body.  “For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and he will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh.”  This sacred secret is great. Now I am speaking about Christ and the congregation."

 

"For just as the body is one but has many members, and all the members of that body, although many, are one body, so too is the Christ."

 

"I am now rejoicing in my sufferings for your sake, and I am undergoing the tribulations of the Christ that are yet lacking in my flesh in behalf of his body, which is the congregation."

 

"Consequently, he had to become like his “brothers” in all respects, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, in order to offer a propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the people.  Since he himself has suffered when being put to the test, he is able to come to the aid of those who are being put to the test."

 

Jesus and the anointed will understand what it's like to suffer. Some of them have suffered through concentration camps. Some of them have suffered other abuses of various kinds. Some of them have been tempted in different ways and failed but then later have come off successful. Some of them have been disfellowshipped. Some of them have lost loved ones in death. Some of them have dealt with sickness personally, or addictions, or economic woes. Some of them etc, etc, etc, .... They also understand what it's like to suffer so that they can minister and judge righteously and compassionately in their future assignment.

 

The "body" of the Christ (the congregation of 144,000) has experienced sufficient suffering to be prepared for the job ahead. That is how they are prepared and trained.

 

15 hours ago, boyle said:

Since the 144,000 thousand will do battle alongside Christ, then it shouldn't be surprising to know, those that have fallen asleep have already received their heavenly reward.

Otherwise, they would have to be awakened in an instance, while the battle is raging. Does that make sense?

 

"But take your stand against him, firm in the faith, knowing that the same kind of sufferings are being experienced by the entire association of your brothers in the world.  But after you have suffered a little while, the God of all undeserved kindness, who called you to his everlasting glory in union with Christ, will himself finish your training. He will make you firm, he will make you strong, he will firmly ground you.  To him be the might forever. Amen."

 

The preparation/training of the anointed is while they are on earth. Once they are changed into spirit creatures, they will not need any special training to know how to defend their earthly brothers at Armageddon. 

 

When a baby is in the womb, did it receive any special "training" to know how to breathe once it's out?

 

"At 40 weeks, labor starts. The mother’s uterine muscles contract and the baby is on its way out into the world. In the process its head is often pressed out of shape, but, since its skull bones have not yet fused together, after delivery the head resumes its normal shape. Up until now the mother has done everything for the baby: provided oxygen, food, protection, warmth and also for the removal of wastes. Now the baby must go to work for itself, quickly, or it will die.

 

"For a baby to live outside the womb, what changes must take place quickly?

 

"It must start breathing in order for the lungs to put oxygen into the blood. But to do this another drastic conversion must take place instantaneously: the pathway of the circulating blood must change! While the fetus was in the womb, there was a hole in the wall of its heart. That wall separated the right and left chambers and kept much of the baby’s blood from ever going toward the lungs. Of the blood that did, a large vessel made most of it bypass the lungs. In the womb, only about 10 percent of the blood went through the lungs; after birth all of it must do so, and immediately! To accomplish this, within seconds after birth the big vessel that bypassed the lungs constricts and the blood that went through it now goes to the lungs. Meanwhile the hole in the wall of the heart closes, and all the blood pumped from the right side of the heart now goes to the lungs to be oxygenated. The baby breathes, the blood is oxygenated, dramatic changes have been made and the baby lives! As the inspired psalmist so beautifully sums it up: “You kept me screened off in the belly of my mother. I shall laud you because in a fear-inspiring way I am wonderfully made.”—Psalm 139:13, 14." (from Making Your Family Life Happy p 83-84)

 

Jehovah Causes To Become. If He can make a helpless little baby understand how to breathe for the first time without any special classes, then certainly He can cause His resurrected witnesses to understand how to protect sheep and beat dragons.

 

(If a dragon was coming at your kids and you suddenly had "superpowers", what would you do? Would you need a training class to know what to do? David didn't need a training class when it was time to slay Goliath. He already had enough training. All he needed was one pebble and a sling.)

 

"You will break them with an iron scepter, 

And you will smash them like a piece of pottery."

 

"Just the same, hold fast to what you have until I come.  And to the one who conquers and observes my deeds down to the end, I will give authority over the nations,  and he will shepherd the people with an iron rod so that they will be broken to pieces like clay vessels, just as I have received from my Father."

 

Will the anointed need special training in heaven to learn how to smash pottery? What do you think @boyle? No. They will not need special training in heaven to learn how to smash pottery. But this is what they do need for training now:

 

"But speaking the truth, let us by love grow up in all things into him who is the head, Christ.  From him all the body is harmoniously joined together and made to cooperate through every joint that gives what is needed. When each respective member functions properly, this contributes to the growth of the body as it builds itself up in love."

 

Love.

 

"So now, you kings, show insight; 

Accept correction, you judges of the earth.  

Serve Jehovah with fear, 

And rejoice with trembling.  

Honor the son, or God will become indignant 

And you will perish from the way, 

For His anger flares up quickly.  

Happy are all those taking refuge in Him."

[Pudgy]

The angels are all shown in Heaven as Caucasian too (That means “white”, for those in Rio Linda, even though it’s more like pink …. ), with identical white wings …. and MANLY well trimmed beards, too.  

If AudreyAnnaNanna gets to heaven, perhaps she will meet SNL’s Rosanne Rosannadanna (Gilda Radner) and they can trim each other’s beards.

I bet it looks like a snowstorm in Heaven when they all at the same time start wing moulting ….

[TrueTomHarley]

Aren’t we intent on respecting copyright these days?

[Pudgy]

4 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Aren’t we intent on respecting copyright these days?

I dunno … Dilbert is copyrighted and is the most copied, reproduced and printed comic strip in the world.

My guess is that the WTB&TS, although vehemently jealous over its copyrighted material, is like standing on Earth, shaking your fist at the sky, as you get hit in the face with another Planet.

Also, my guess is a very good case can be made for “fair use”., as there is no commercial use.

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, boyle said:

I'm afraid I don't get your understanding. Did someone suggest the 144,000 will be resurrected on earth? I do find that illogical. I would not accept that as sound teaching.

 

Trigonometry, my dear @boyle.

 

"sine of any angle theta is equal to 180 degrees minus the sine of angle theta"

 

sin (180° - θ) = sin (90° + 90° - θ)

                   = sin [90° + (90° - θ)]

                   = cos (90° - θ), [since sin (90° + θ) = cos θ]

Therefore, sin (180° - θ) = sin θ, [since cos (90° - θ) = sin θ]

 

How is it possible that a ratio of an angle is equal to a ratio of 180 minus that same angle? Because of patterns. The sine curve has a pattern that, when graphed on the unit circle, repeats itself so that in other quadrants you can use the above equation to find that angle theta. It's not illogical. It's trigonometry. Jehovah invented it.

 

I'm not a mathematician, so I apologize if that illustration wasn't executed perfectly. If you're not into trigonometry, here's a different illustration: Jehovah uses patterns. Jesus is a pattern for the rest of those who become part of his bride. Jesus was resurrected and he materialized a body here on earth. People ate with him, talked to him, touched him, saw him ascend to heaven. He said he was coming back again. "Truly I say to you, you will be with me in Paradise." "I will not drink anymore the product of the vine until I drink it with you in the kingdom." Jesus and his anointed ones will be on the earth again because they can materialize bodies, just like angels did back in Bible times. 

 

If you don't accept the Bible as sound teaching, well, I can't help you with that. That's something you'll have to talk to Jehovah about.

 

1 hour ago, boyle said:

Hey there, Anna-Banana.

 

Do you like dumb Banana jokes?

 

"I am going bananas!" (That's what I say to my bananas before I leave the house.)

 

You need to be extra nice to bananas, do you know why? You don't want to hurt their peelings!

 

What's yellow and goes 30 mph? A banana in a washing machine.

 

What's the hippest kind of fruit? A bae-nae-nae.

 

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

 

Today I learned humans eat more bananas than monkeys. (That makes sense, I can't remember ever eating a monkey.)

 

How is a banana peel on the floor like music? If you don't C sharp you'll B flat.

 

What to hear a potassium joke? K.

 

1 hour ago, boyle said:

I don't follow your reasoning. Jesus was born perfect. His suffering had nothing to do with that perfection.

 

It's not my reasoning, it's God's Word. Jehovah is the One who said it in His Word:

 

"During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear.  Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered.  And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him..."

 

Jesus was a perfect son of God, but he wasn't perfect for the job of high priest until after he came and suffered on earth. He was made perfect for the job of high priest through suffering on earth. He wasn't perfect for the job until after he suffered. It's right in that verse. God's reasoning.

 

1 hour ago, boyle said:

Why would anyone think Jesus needed special training as a perfect being?

 

Again, see the above. Jehovah is the One who said Jesus needed special training for his new role.

 

Quote

Not only that, they also gain experience by being obedient to Jehovah's word and the responsibility they carry with that faith.

 

Yes, and part of that responsibility is to let the light shine, the things revealed by the helper, the holy spirit. Jesus said he would send that spirit, the helper, and they all had the responsibility to share that information with others.

 

1 hour ago, boyle said:

Every faithful follower is part of Christ body. The difference is, the 144,000 will ascend to heaven. Their reward is automatic perfection while the rest will gradually receive it. The 144,000 have a duty while the rest will have an obligation. That's where the anointed prepare for, and have received that training on earth. This off course doesn't mean the body of Christ is complete yet.

 

Every faithful follower is a part of Christ's body by extension, just like children come out of their father's body by extension. A wife is different than a child. Jesus came out of Jehovah, Jesus is Jehovah's Son, but Jesus is also part of God's "wife" in that the angels are compositely called God's wife, the Jerusalem above. The word "body" is an illustration regarding the anointed. When they go to heaven, they are in a submissive role like a wife. Those who will live as humans on earth are not in that same role. All faithful followers are "children" in that they are redeemed by the blood of the Christ, who takes Adam's place as our father. But only the 144,000 will be like that "wife" role in the kingdom. The anointed are all sealed at present. 

 

1 hour ago, boyle said:

As you have stated, they received that training on earth. There is no need to have additional training in heaven since they already understand the mindset of humanity. That means they are well-prepared to support Christ in heaven.

 

Yes.

 

1 hour ago, boyle said:

This is true if you are referring to the right association.

 

"But take your stand against him, firm in the faith, knowing that the same kind of sufferings are being experienced by the entire association of your brothers in the world."

 

"In reply he said to the one who spoke to him: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”  And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: “Look! My mother and my brothers!  For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, that one is my brother and sister and mother.”

 

Jesus didn't say a "brother" was only somebody with the label of "one of Jehovah's Witnesses in good standing according to the Bethel office." Jesus said "whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, that one is my brother." I trust Jesus.

 

1 hour ago, boyle said:

I'm afraid I don't get the correlation between the training of the 144,000 and the mother's unborn child. If you are referring to the unborn child's development, then yes, the unborn child is receiving special training inside the womb.

 

It's from Revelation chapter 12.

 

"Then a great sign was seen in heaven: A woman was arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of 12 stars,  and she was pregnant. And she was crying out in her pains and in her agony to give birth. Another sign was seen in heaven. Look! A great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and on its heads seven diadems;  and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she did give birth, it might devour her child. And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away to God and to his throne.  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days."

 

1 hour ago, boyle said:

I would say, there is no need for the anointed to receive special training. They have already experienced the worst of humanity in all aspects of life. They will already know how to smash the devil into submission. After that, they will know how to rebuild Jehovah's earth to a paradise.

There's a difference with, what kind of love needs to be shown. Agape love is shown to true followers of Christ. Those that are obedient to Jehovah's word without reservation.

 

Agape love is shown to all, not just true followers.

 

Other kinds of love, brotherly love, family love, are shown to individuals based on our relationship with them. But agape love is shown regardless of whether someone chooses to serve God or not.

 

"You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’  However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you,  so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous.  For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing?  And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing?  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

[Pudgy]

World News Media did not post the pictures, AudreyAnnaNana did. She has no commercial gain, and it’s a limited number of pictures, and the purpose is either educational, or parody.

If the Society wants to sue her, they can.

It’s a genie that is forever out of the bottle, as they learned when they went ballistic over YouTube’s DUBTOWN videos.

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

The angels are all shown in Heaven as Caucasian too (That means “white”, for those in Rio Linda, even though it’s more like pink …. ), with identical white wings …. and MANLY well trimmed beards, too.  

If AudreyAnnaNanna gets to heaven, perhaps she will meet SNL’s Rosanne Rosannadanna (Gilda Radner) and they can trim each other’s beards.

I bet it looks like a snowstorm in Heaven when they all at the same time start wing moulting ….

We kinda look alike. I don't know if they'll be beards allowed. Isn't it only beard fractions that are approved by the FDS? Guess we'll be okay.

 

[John 12.24to28]

4 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

If the Society wants to sue her, they can.

"After they arrived in Ca·perʹna·um, the men collecting the two drachmas tax approached Peter and said: “Does your teacher not pay the two drachmas tax?”  He said: “Yes.” However, when he entered the house, Jesus spoke to him first and said: “What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth receive duties or head tax? From their sons or from the strangers?”  When he said: “From the strangers,” Jesus said to him: “Really, then, the sons are tax-free."

 

If the FDS wants to sue a faithful member of the bride of Christ for making use of the publications to share light, just add it to their running tab. Jesus will make an accounting. 

[John 12.24to28]

55 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Aren’t we intent on respecting copyright these days?

 

It is good to respect the authorities. The highest authority is Jehovah.

 

"Render to all their dues: to the one who calls for the tax, the tax; to the one who calls for the tribute, the tribute; to the one who calls for fear, such fear; to the one who calls for honor, such honor. Do not owe anything to anyone except to love one another; for whoever loves his fellow man has fulfilled the law.  For the law code, “You must not commit adultery, you must not murder, you must not steal, you must not covet,” and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this saying: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.”  Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor; therefore, love is the law’s fulfillment."

 

I am glad you respect the copyright people so much, Tom. It's good to see your love in action. I can tell you really care about those people who make the copyright laws, and you are concerned for their welfare. (Somebody has to care about the poor Watchtower lawyers...) I care about them too. That's why I wrote to them so many times about what's going to happen soon at Bethel.