Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"

[Arauna]

The video talks about glory....... Feruli apparently already has glory and does not need more.

I do not buy this statement. Satan was the most beautiful and already had a lot to be grateful for..... but he became arrogant.  

[Arauna]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

have another theory as to what he is doing,

Please notify what you think that could be.

[JW Insider]

17 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Please notify what you think that could be.

It's just a working hypothesis based on things I've seen from him, including a personal conversation. I am reading the book now, and won't finish until tomorrow. If the hypothesis is not evidenced I will either drop it, or discuss why it wasn't evidenced. But I'm OK discussing his book no matter what his reasons..

He sent me his last two books for free, but I must not be on his mailing list any more, because I had to get this one myself.

[TrueTomHarley]

People think the Lennon/McCarney song Revolution advocates revolution. Does it?

You say you want a revolution, Well, you know, We all want to change the world...

But when you talk about destruction, Don't you know that you can count me out, Don't you know it's gonna be , All right....

You say you got a real solution, Well, you know, We'd all love to see the plan...

You say you'll change the constitution, Well, you know, We all want to change your head

You tell me it's the institution, Well, you know, You better free you mind instead

But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Ray, You ain't going to make it with anyone anyway, Don't you know it's gonna be , All right, all right, all right

Got a real solution? Show the plan. But if someone brings his plan to the altar and it is not acted on, what then? Does one become of those who pushes ahead? Or does one free his mind instead and not make a grab for the wheel of the bus? As to getting myself a free copy...

20 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

@TrueTomHarley Ask him yourself 😆

I did. I emailed him. Unfortunately, every malcontent in the world probably did, too—some to laud him and some to express dismay that their own pet peeve has been ignored. He may not want to hear from any of them—since he says that the core doctrines are all true, words that most of them will choke on—most of them want “destruction.” Therefore, I despair of breaking through the pack and securing a free copy.

I may write a lot, have a way with words, and craft them uniquely, but it would be a stretch to call myself a scholar, so I do not do so. “One scholar to another—I’ll drink to that,” said George Patton. Maybe some other scholar can get me in good with him. Or maybe I’ll have to pay up, which doesn’t seem right. Or maybe I’ll just wait to referee the brouhaha that results as others devour it. 

What will be the upshot? Much has changed since the time of Chairman Ray, which was a bit early for me and I’ve never read his book—I barely have to since so many have told me what’s in it. As mentioned before, what is the tone of this book? Is it a call for “revolution” or does he say to those opposers who want destruction, “count me out.”? Arauna says everything has to be judged in its own historical context, and much has changed in forty years.

He wouldn’t appear on that smug webhost’s site because he was an apostate—surely that’s a good sign—just as I would not appear on Lloyd’s podcast, though he all but begged me to and was nice as pie until he realized I had no intention of doing so, after which he was horrible. Note how this fellow Norwegian self-described apostate oozes contempt that CO’s usually start as “window cleaners”—the same way that Celsus ridiculed the first and second century Christians for being “shoemakers, laborers, and the most clownish of men,” completely forgetting how God is partial toward those people and doesn’t look down upon them at all.

I think there is a scene in Superman in which a battle of titans looms and one of the regular citizen-mortals says, “This is going to be good!” (JTR would know—what a time for him to leave!) That’s what they’re saying at Reddit, now. 

[JW Insider]

45 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Ray, You ain't going to make it with anyone anyway,

So far, I can't help but see a strong parallel between Ray Franz and Rolf Furuli's choice of words, style and even some of his entire talking points. I already had five R.F. marks in the margins (pdf) before even got out of the Introduction. And it started not to matter whether the R.F. stood for Rolf Furuli or Ray Franz, so I stopped highlighting those kinds of parallels.

Two of the parallels are so "eerie" that I wonder how aware Furuli is about how they sound. Here's one:

Ray Franz became associated with the term "captives of a concept" as a way to explain how and why the GB see themselves in a position that is so difficult to explain Biblically. Furuli hits several of Ray Franz' points in the same order that Franz presents them:

I do not question
the sincerity of the members of the GB. But it seems to me that they are
held captive by their belief that they are chosen by God as "the faithful
and discreet slave," and that they have been appointed over Jehovah's
Witnesses as their government with unlimited power.

Here's another one, that echos the theme of R.Franz' second book:

This letter shows that the members of the GB believe that they have
the right to . . .
overrule the consciences of individual Witnesses. But this is an attack on
the Christian freedom that Paul mentioned in Galatians 5.1.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily go to your point about Furuli's goals, because Ray Franz' style appeared to be much more reluctant about saying anything, but explained how he had been forced into a corner to explain himself due to rampant misinformation. This rang true with Ray Franz that he had never wanted to leave the organization, or try to do anything that would get him in any kind of trouble that would force anyone to try to make him leave, or try to undermine anything to do with current doctrines or teachings, after settling into his congregation. The problem apparently started only when the congregation wanted to use Ray Franz as an elder, and the local elders wrote the Society to find out if that would be appropriate. Until then there was apparently no reason to go after Ray Franz to try to get him disfellowshipped. So, "Chairman Ray" may have been the very opposite of your revolutionary. And Furuli is setting himself up similarly as a non-revolutionary.

One major difference is that Furuli has evidently taken a more proactive role, and pretty much admits to assuming that he won't be answered, just because they haven't dealt with him or his issues yet. You might have nailed it when you wondered just how he knows they are refusing to consider his "corrections." But I'm pretty sure that he knows. He knows what is inevitable, or at least what would have been inevitable if he hadn't got this book out there first.

11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This is not a promising sign. How does he know they refuse to do it? 

A former circuit and district overseer can read the signs, especially one whose work has previously been welcomed into the hearing of the GB.

[TrueTomHarley]

28 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

How O'maly got on board in this closed forum puzzles me.

Some forums are more closed than others. There actually is a closed closed forum. This is the open closed one. Sounds odd, I know, but Admin explained the circumstances under which it came about and it all made sense then.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Chairman Ray

was an irresistible insert for the song. I’m aware that it doesn’t quite fit. It doesn’t have to. It’s art and he’s dead. 

[TrueTomHarley]

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

And it started not to matter whether the R.F. stood for Rolf Furuli or Ray Franz, so I stopped highlighting those kinds of parallels.

Same initials? Wait until Kos gets ahold of that one.

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Wait until Kos gets ahold of that one.

Speaking of Kosonen, a few things remind me of him, too. Even the tone of offering unheeded "correction" but also this idea Furuli has:

There is also a need for an
independent group of elders to review all the human commandments that
the GB has invented and to remove those that are not based on the Bible,
and which have caused harm for individual Witnesses.

But Furuli's book is starting to sound more like a Raymond Franz sequel (on those few points where they agree). Comparisons between the organizational hierarchy and the Catholic Church are even stronger here than in Franz' books. He even seems to acknowledge (or idealize) that there was a short period of time that immediately followed when R.Franz presented the scriptural meaning of elder, etc., to Knorr and FW Franz, and they humbly accepted the loss of power and authority.

I could go on an on with commentary, but I'll try to save it until I'm finished. Else I won't finish.

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Speaking of Kosonen, a few things remind me of him, too. Even the tone of offering unheeded "correction" but also this idea Furuli has:

Anything done can be done another way. I know that. Everyone does. Anything with upside will have a downside. While I may present my dream list—everyone has one—as to what I would like to see—I tend to work with what is.  I  may read this book someday, especially if I get the free copy I deserve as a fellow scholar, even if a pseudo one, and I can see why someone with your background would do so immediately. I’m glad that you do, and others. That way you can tell me about it lest it takes me awhile to get to it or even if I never do.

I tire of these fellows who are so fascinated by the devices of power that they become like the inside-the-beltway policy wonks who actually can’t do anything themselves so they specialize in critiquing what others do. At least RF has a track record, but that was long ago. Does he convey any sense that Jehovah is running the show or is it all political maneuverings with him? That is among the things I would be looking for. And what is he doing, not back in the day, but now? The pull of speaking to the choir rather than the householder Is irresistible to some; you spoke of some in Bethel who were like that, and one can begin to fear for them. Has he become like that? Like Paul at 1 Cor 4:19 muses, I am not so interested in his speech, but in his power. Has he severed himself from the ranks of those doing the work of Jesus to become a policy wonk? Dunno, but that is what would interest me.

I live and breathe the truth and I have for nearly 50 years. When I read outside of this forum, the Bible itself, and what is preliminary to my own posts, I tend to read secular material that I am not so intimately familiar with. It is fine that someone should write a book, but anyone can write a book—I’ve written four of them. I can read your remarks—there surely are enough of them—and assemble them into my own book on your behalf. The same can be said of many other prolific ones here. 

I’m still reading the book of the brother who survived Rwanda—a chapter at a time—I’ve gotten distracted. There’s over 8 million of Jehovah’s people and every one of them has a book in them. Just because they haven’t got around to writing it yet and maybe don’t have the wherewithal to do so does not make it any less interesting. 

The way this Norwegian apostate (not RF, but the one with the webcast) coos on about ‘scholarship’ irks me. Scholars put their pants on one leg at a time like you and I. They disagree no less than we regular mortals. Look to the world that scholars have collectively built—for the most part, this system of things is run by highly educated people—to properly evaluate ‘scholarship.’

I don’t despise it, but neither do I worship it, as it seemed that Norwegian fellow did—so impressed at Rulf’s educational achievements. It is like when I rode in Frankie’s new van and all the brothers were oohing and ahhing over its every new tech feature and I got fed up. “Frankie, does this car have a radio?” I said breathlessly when it was my turn. But Frankie is cool, not wound up too tight, and is truly a fine man. He reads how things are going. “Nah, it doesn’t have one of those,” he says.

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Okay, thanks. I speculated since someone would have to approve to come into this open closed forum.

This one is open to all. To gain access to the closed closed one your must pass muster with Anna. That is why I bow and scrape to her whenever she comes around.

[Ann O'Maly]

8 hours ago, César Chávez said:

 How O'maly got on board in this closed forum puzzles me.

Closed? It was all open when I started here many moons ago. I see they've moved the furniture around and plastered over some doorways since I last dropped by. A little disorienting but hey, this door was still open so here I am. Never fear, the only JWs I eat for breakfast are Neil and that Allen/Wyatt Earp guy (is he still posting?). 

@scholar JW Hi Neil 🙂 Good to see you're still kicking around. So, how do you feel about Rolf taking a stand against the Governing Body and rejecting the current Faithful and Discreet Slave doctrine (the FDS doctrine, @Arauna)? 

[TrueTomHarley]

21 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Closed? It was all open when I started here many moons ago. I see they've moved the furniture around and plastered over some doorways since I last dropped by.

Relax. You’ve done nothing wrong (this time).

22 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

that Allen/Wyatt Earp guy (is he still posting?). 

Are you kidding me? He has more aliases than I do.

Imagine my rotten l**k. Here I have almost succeeded in the reappearance of the three amigos—Witness, Ann, and JTR—the original three of the thread the Librarian assigned to me, ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates,’ which I resisted because i didn’t want the job, but when my resistance proved futile, I warmed to the task and went after them with such ferocity that the same Admin that put me on it took me off—and many months later it became inspiration for my fourth book, ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/917311

Ann suddenly reappears and what happens? JTR disappears to do penance! JTR, who never was apostate in many ways but who so closely resembled one that I couldn’t tell the difference. He’s gone!—only days before the story breaks that may or may not fit so nicely into ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates—Round 2’ should such a book come about.

Ann O’Maly, who is herself my inspiration of Top Cat O’Malihan—an alias I trotted out to mess with than pretentious buffoon AlanH—Ann herself appears as JTR disappears. I tell you, it is not right.

Incidentally, the cat in Top Cat’s profile photo is dead. It was my cat but when I took my daughter’s dog in because she was moving away as a need-greater—well, the dog has a thing about chasing cats. So I took the cat to my Dad’s house, who was just coming down with dementia and in time I stayed with him for a few months. He figured that it was one of the barn cats that he grew up with and kept leaving it saucers of milk around the house, just as he had done in his boyhood with the other barn cats. “Great, Pop!” I would mutter. “Here I want to pour myself a bowl of cereal and I can’t because you have put all the milk out in a dozen bowls for the cat—who never touches it!”

The cat was old by the time I took it to my Dad’s. It was a great comfort for him and would sit on his lap. He was looking for it one day and I knew he would not find it. It had crawled under the basement workbench, a place that it had never been before, to die. There really is something to the expression, ‘Crawl under a rock and die.”