IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

What is funny @César Chávez  is that you talk about " living a Christian life was too hard and not what you expected, because you lost certain human freedoms, especially those practiced in today's world of debauchery? "

But when some one turns that full circle and mentions that the JW org is full of immorality, you don't like it. 

This whole JW thing about the whole world being wicked, is wrong. The idea that everyone who is not a JW is part of a wicked world, is wrong.  The idea that JWs can be neutrel but no one else can, is wrong.  I'm sure there are many people that are not JWs but are good honest people with good moral standards. 

I think this scripture is very important. Romans 2 from v 14

For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. ¹⁵  They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused. ¹⁶  This will take place in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare.

This is talking about people in the 'world' that you and others accuse of being so wicked. But by being pure of heart they prove they have God's law written in their hearts. And that has nothing to de with being a JW. 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

This whole JW thing about the whole world being wicked, is wrong.

When Bible said how "whole world is under the power of devil", that is not proof how whole world is automatically evil, but only that ruler of this World is devil. But because JW beliefs how Jesus is King from 1914, that would mean how Jesus is Ruler and how this World is under power of Jesus, too. Or not? That is question for WTJWorg Bible Scholars.

But back to first issue. Humanity is not more or less evil because of JW interpretations. Would we say how Eve and Adam became evil because of devil question about fruit? Did the evil influence of the devil come through the question? Or through some bad mental energy? Or by spoken words? Or by visualization  with snake? 

People are in capacity to doing bad things, but people are ready to help too. Also today, centuries after Adam and Eve perfection. So, whole world is mixed with good and evil things no matter of devil. Even in JW Spiritual Paradise we  see good and evil "fruits".

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

[4Jah]: This whole JW thing about the whole world being wicked, is wrong.

Of course! 4Jah has made fine spiritual progress. Patch up that world! Tell Trump and Biden to get over their spat. Tell Putin to stop being mean. Tell Xi that Urgyers are people, too! Tell ISIS that we must make love, not war.

Yes. Fix the world! That’s the answer! Why did nobody ever think of this before?

“Tell me why you JWs always thing the world is getting worse?” someone asked me. “What is it that view does for you?”

”It helps me to explain why the Doomsday Clock is 30 seconds before midnight and not 10:30 AM,” I replied.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Tell Trump and Biden to get over their spat. Tell Putin to stop being mean. Tell Xi that Urgyers are people, too! Tell ISIS that we must make love, not war.

Try with ... to excommunicate them (dfd them) :)).

[Srecko Sostar]

On 3/7/2021 at 7:17 PM, César Chávez said:

WOW! The one that needs to reread this passage is you. You are failing to understand the true context of it. Don't interpret it to suit your false claim, but in the spirit it was intended.

Again, the verses: 

(Matthew 18:15-17) ¹⁵ “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. ¹⁶ But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. ¹⁷ If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector

WTJWorg teaches that there are two kinds of sin: Big and small (Minor and gross). Elders do not want to deal with small sins, but say that the members need to solve them among themselves. Every great sin (serious wrongdoing) should be immediately reported to the elders (and therefore it is an assembly, elders=congregation).

Which is why you need to solve a small problem with your brother on your own, if you might still report it to the elders and the congregation.
Secondly, what is the use of Jesus' advice if you must not try to solve a big (gross) sin on your own with your brother, but must immediately report it to the elders?

Read this please, and you will see how Shepherd book interpret one situation in connection to Mat 18 and not giving support to your WOW: 

The congregation would not consider forming a judicial committee unless the offended Christian had taken steps one and two of Matthew 18:15, 16 and had initiated step three as described in Matthew 18:17.—lvs pp. 253-254. 25. If asked, elders could participate in step two, but they do not represent the body of elders. If the matter proceeds to step three, any elders who were witnesses in step two could serve only as witnesses in step three. They would not be used to serve on the judicial committee. - Shepherd 2019

Even your publication speaking contrary to general opinion (general interpretation) about meaning of verses in Matt 18. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Of course! 4Jah has made fine spiritual progress. Patch up that world! Tell Trump and Biden to get over their spat. Tell Putin to stop being mean. Tell Xi that Urgyers are people, too! Tell ISIS that we must make love, not war.

Yes. Fix the world! That’s the answer! Why did nobody ever think of this before?

“Tell me why you JWs always thing the world is getting worse?” someone asked me. “What is it that view does for you?”

”It helps me to explain why the Doomsday Clock is 30 seconds before midnight and not 10:30 AM,” I replied.

Unfortunately this comment of Mr Harley's shows that he has a serious problem in his life, and that problem is not me.

17 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

This whole JW thing about the whole world being wicked, is wrong. The idea that everyone who is not a JW is part of a wicked world, is wrong.  The idea that JWs can be neutrel but no one else can, is wrong.  I'm sure there are many people that are not JWs but are good honest people with good moral standards. 

Here is what i said. Plain for everyone to see. All that Tom mentions is the world Leaders, not the ordinary people living their daily lives.  And i never even mentioned trying to 'patch up the world' as Tom suggests.

As for the Doomsday clock, it belongs to Men, not GOD. Only GOD knows the day and the hour, but Men still pretend to know. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

1 Corinthians 12 : 12 & 13 

 For just as the body is one but has many members, and all the members of that body, although many, are one body, so too is the Christ. ¹³  For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit.

THIS IS THE ANOINTED

1 Corinthians 12 : 18

 But now God has arranged each of the body members just as he pleased.

THIS IS STILL THE ANOINTED 

The whole of that scripture is about the Anointed.  I'm sorry that JWs don't have the spiritual wisdom to understand that. 

 

 

[Witness]

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Ephesians 2:19-22

So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

I don't know what point you are trying to make, but "fellow citizens with the saints" is the merging of physical Gentiles with physical Jews to become one anointed flock under Jesus Christ. These, are spiritual "Israel".  

 So, then, remember that at one time you were Gentiles in the flesh—called “the uncircumcised” by those called “the circumcised,” which is done in the flesh by human hands. 12 At that time you were without Christ, excluded from the citizenship of Israel, and foreigners to the covenants of promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus, you who were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who made both groups one and tore down the dividing wall of hostility. In his flesh, 15 he made of no effect the law consisting of commands and expressed in regulations, so that he might create in himself one new man from the two, resulting in peace.  Eph 2:11-15

 

[TrueTomHarley]

10 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

All that Tom mentions is the world Leaders, not the ordinary people living their daily lives.  And i never even mentioned trying to 'patch up the world' as Tom suggests.

Even the Devil would come around if he just was treated with love and understanding! He is only acting out of his pain. Be nice to him!

4Jah is on to something here, I think. He has make fine progress since he left God’s organzation. The world is not bad. The ordinary people wish to live their daily lives and they will be able to do so once the Devil turns over a new leaf, which he will do if we just do things his way. He will then persuade the world leaders to join him in his new course of love and quit making trouble for their subjects.

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, César Chávez said:

What is the difference between "fornication" and "rape", "adultery" and "Murder"? Now you want the Org to take up criminal actions, when they don't have that authority under man's law?

What powers were available in ancient times, that are no longer available, now? By this scheme of yours. I would ask the ARC and the Australian Parliament, why they decided against Brother Jackson's suggestion, of giving Australia Government FULL authority over child abuse matters, all declined and some territories didn't change their clergy privilege.

How would "fornication" be solved on their own? Between the players. How does this stay inline with keeping the congregation clean. How about "adultery"? What you are saying, the wife or husband affected doesn't have the right to know, they have a disgusting cheating spouse. Make sense man!

How about inappropriate touching. If someone feels uncomfortable, speaks to that person, yet that person continues, what you're saying, that person should just let it go, get a life, and accept the inappropriate touching?

Make sense man! By these hypotheticals, you are allowing the very thing you are advocating against.

Try using reason with your argument Srecko, and think about the hypotheticals I just mentioned, then replay apply your thought process, not just for your benefit, but to benefit idiots like Pudgy

For sure, you bring good questions. But you still want that few thousands years old rules and methods of Jews be in power today. That is why, enough hard situations for victims and wrongdoer and all beetwen, WTJWorg applicatiions of verses makes more difficult. Because they (GB and elders) navigate between sin and crime, and by that beetwen spiritual and literal punsihment, and beetwen religious and secular reality. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Even the Devil would come around if he just was treated with love and understanding! He is only acting out of his pain. Be nice to him!

4Jah is on to something here, I think. He has make fine progress since he left God’s organzation. The world is not bad. The ordinary people wish to live their daily lives and they will be able to do so once the Devil turns over a new leaf, which he will do if we just do things his way. He will then persuade the world leaders to join him in his new course of love and quit making trouble for their subjects.

It seems that Tom has turned apostate here and now Tom believes the Devil will become good. it looks as if tom no longer believes in Armageddon, because tom thinks Armageddon is no longer necessary due to Tom's idea that the Devil will be good and evryone will have peace. Poor old tom, unless this is his new Book. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

It's 11 am here in England. The sun is shining and i have just returned from a two hour walk.  I needed to sit and rest for a while, that's why I'm on here. So what do we find then. Wel it seems as if tom now wants to serve the Devil, and CC. is ranting and raving because he is so jealous that the scriptures are written for the True Anointed. 

CC is trying all ways to decieve others about God's written word. But the truth is that God's written word is for the True Anointed to understand properly with the guidance of God's Holy spirt, through Jesus Christ.  I could, once again, show many scriptures to prove my point, but it is pointless and wrong to 'cast pearls before swine'. 

CC's other pointless point about the Elders, well it's very sad. CC thinks the Elders are princes and CC believes the Elders are guided by God's Holy Spirit. CC burbles on about evidence for CSA but we all know that it has been proven that the Edlers were told to destoy evidence., and the congregations were told to keep everything 'in house'. CC really believes that the Elders are princes so lets have a scripture 

Psalm 146 : 3 

 Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.