IICSA: survivors speak of influence of religion

[TrueTomHarley]

13 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

then I will turn myself in for not being nice to apostates.

Everyone is one to you. You must be a terror in your Kingdom Hall, assuming you really go to one.

[xero]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Everyone is one to you. You must be a terror in your Kingdom Hall, assuming you really go to one.

Tom, I remember getting assigned two literally red-headed step teenagers and their ghetto-still-has-a-bullet-fragment-in-his-head as studies. One of the boys you couldn't tell which eye was looking at you. They were from Kentucky and their mom hooked up with the ghetto-rat when she was in detroit as a nurse. She was the nurse. He'd been shot at close range in the face w/a small caliber gun and I don't think they got it all out, so he'd be erratic at times and threatening. So I studied w/the boys and him separately. Tim made it to baptism. Keith couldn't get it together to qualify. I think he must have had an IQ of 80. Doug, the step-dad came close to qualifying, but his erratic behavior would get the best of him. One day as I explained to the boys that when you said "Amen" to a prayer, that meant you agreed with the prayer and that you couldn't say "Amen" if you disagreed. So they brought up some weird crap Doug would pray for, and I said, "Well does that sound like something Jehovah would like?" And they said "No", and I said "Then what do you think about "Amening" that?" And they said "It's not a good idea." I said "Ok", "But you don't have to make a big deal out of it. Everyone prays for the wrong stuff at times, and maybe it's right, but if it doesn't sound right to your conscience, then  don't "Amen" it."

So later Doug gets wind of my "teaching". Calls me up and tells me to come over. So I do. Then he comes out all mad and says "You only said that because I'm black!" ...I said "No. I said what I said because I believe it and it's true." "You can't go blaming all your problems on your skin color Doug. You act aggressive and wonder why you have problems. Our PO is black, our service overseer is black, your book study conductor is black. The brothers behind the counter are mostly black."

Then he said "You better stop teaching them like you're teaching them or I'll come to the kingdom hall and spit in your face!" I said "You do what you gotta do Doug, and I'm going to KEEP on DOING what I'm doing w/those boys."

About two hours later he calls up and apologizes.

Like I said he was volatile, but his prayers were the best I've heard once he stopped w/the crazy.

This is Keith today...Years ago he was coming to the KH dressed up like Elvis and decades later he's still doing it...

https://flote.app/post/f19799c6-034b-432b-b5c3-8704cb7a5d51

I know Jehovah has a place for people like Keith.

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

she continued in her wrong path, even though I was strongly opposed

Excuse me, if you are referring to me, please watch your rhetoric. The sentence  I added to your comment (without making this clear) was a mistake - not ' pursuing'  in a wrong path. While I agree with most things you say, I feel you are way to over the top in your judgement of me. 

Total over reaction.  Any case, even if I was the most silliest person on this forum..... I still have a right to be here and not be spoken of like "unworthy" of being in a discussion where you are present. So I apologise again for this but I reserve the right to add any "opinion" I may have.. 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, xero said:

I know Jehovah has a place for people like Keith.

Got it. Who can say? People gots to be cut slack.

My newfound nemesis says to me, “Did I ever say I was perfect?”

“Well, no,” I hang my head in shame.

“Alright, then!” he crows and the moment I turn my back he toasts it with a flamethrower.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

A tad off topic folks. 

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Even though JWinsider tried to see where you went wrong,

Apparently your superior knowledge and subtleties are not part of my makeup. .... However, be careful ... do not boast too much!

[Anna]

Love reading your experiences!

7 hours ago, xero said:

I know Jehovah has a place for people like Keith

We have discussed this issue a number of times on here. Jehovah reads hearts.

Also, what about all those people who have never heard the good news? And since time does not stand still, there will always be those who have never heard, because people are being born and living through the stream of time, so people will not all be in exactly the same position when Armageddon comes. There will always be someone who may have accepted the truth had they learned it sooner, but then Armageddon came....will Jehovah say sorry, too late?....For sure he will not because he is a just and loving God. So when we say only baptized JWs will be saved, it cannot be true...

[Anna]

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

So when we say only baptized JWs will be saved, it cannot be true...

It is probably one of those things that, If you know what is right and do not do it, it is a sin for you.

[Arauna]

10 hours ago, César Chávez said:

You lack knowledge in many areas. 

I would like you to point them out in a kind way so I can go and upgrade the knowledge I lack.  If you are a true Christian you would help me and not just critisize me. Serious - you may go ahead and give me all the weak spots .... I can take it like a man without getting nasty, self- defensive, being overbearing or obnoxious. 

 

[Arauna]

10 hours ago, César Chávez said:

start crying! I don't need you to apologize, since it won't be accepted. People

That is most Christ- like of you.... I recall a scripture which says " knowledge puffs up but LOVE builds up." 

 I think love for jehovah and love for neighbour goes much farther than harshness, pride and all those nasty attributes.  Love is the one attribute which  can most often help people to recognise the truth.

Maybe you came to this forum to also learn a truth about yourself..... you have to work on your Christian attributes. You may have knowledge but you still do not have the love.

I recall Corinthians (Paul) said: If I have all the knowledge and I do not have love - then I am NOTHING.

So this silly little old sister can also speak directly the truth to you. While I find the "deceivers"  on here just as disgusting as you do and have also not been kind to them on occasion....... I at least feel guilty about my failings because my conscience has been trained to distinguish right from wrong, kindness from pride, self-righteousness from true righteousness.  I leave it to you to ask yourself: what have I learnt about myself on this forum. 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, César Chávez said:

At some point, you would have to concede, whatever approach is made, man will NOT be able to solve. Should religion, then become part of government?

Perhaps this is how it could be said; Man is the cause of the problem, so man could also be the solution to the problem.
Here is an example/fact you provide of how the authorities, various commissions and investigations are stuck in resolving the CSA. While the competent people, in a secular and religious society, try to improve the situation or obstruct the solution of the problem, during that time old and new victims of violence suffer.
The entry of religion, whatever religion is supposed to mean, will not contribute to a solution. Eg. WTJWorg is partly a religion, but by its actions in investigations or in the courts it has primarily sought to protect itself, its Administration. Similar is done by other Institutions, religious or not.

Furthermore, I see the following problem. JW people speak and hope for the Kingdom as the solution to all problems. But I think that vision is a bit vague to them as well. Or the vision is distorted by misconceptions of what and how “their” Kingdom will work.
The kingdom (as the vision of most JW members) is like any other creation similar to what is around us. The JWs explain that the Kingdom is a theocracy, hence the rule of God. If this were so then no physical, earthly elements should be present. Earthly elements are levers of power and hierarchy. So in the Kingdom of God there must be no Kings, Princes, Elders, Ministerial servants, Governing Body, Helpers etc.
JW preach the opposite. Their vision of the Kingdom of God is presented with all the elements that exist today not only in their Organization, but also in the Catholic Church (remember the statement of JW lawyers in Court that they are organized on the same hierarchical principle as the Catholic Church) and in secular terms. Thus, one group (minority) shapes policy and determines direction, the other group (majority) follows instructions.

So even in this kind of Kingdom of God, there will need to be a system of oversight, judiciary, and repression. Question is; Who will do this? Human? Is it really a theocracy? 

Until the individual himself stops doing bad but only does good, there is no Kingdom.