Conscience individual and collective

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

17 hours ago, xero said:

Which group is doing the best job in your view?

If so, then why not do your all to support it? In so doing there is no need to compromise your principles,or  your individual conscience if you understand properly how you must necessarily tolerate the idiosyncracies and readily perceptible deficiencies of the organization and those "taking the lead".

I know it's just click bate from you but I'm not busy so I'll chip in.

What you have written is a lie. Especially if a person chooses to be a JW. 

Firstly they get baptised into an Organisation by not following scripture. 

Secondly they learn or have learnt the words of men from books written by men. 

Thirdly they do ministry by teaching the words of men, not the words of God. 

Fourthly they stand at a cart / trolly distributing more words of men. Lies written in magazines or leaflets to mislead people.

Fifth they have to be part of pretending to know 'the day and the hour' of Armageddon. They have to frighten people to bring them into the Org.  

Sixth they have to keep the secrets about all the Child Sexual Abuse in the JW Org. They have to pretend that the Kingdom Hall is a safe place to be. 

And you pretend that people could still have a conscience ???????????????? 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

Full time service to other GB members and to a couple of Orgs W/t & JW. 

No. As measured by the number of doors they have knocked on over the course of a lifetime, each one in order to present the good news of God. Some of your “true anointed” have barely knocked on any.

[Witness]

21 hours ago, Thinking said:

Jehovah is allowing these places to exist...as a winnowing...many have come to understand this...some unfortunately get caught up and deceived by these ones who themselves are deceived...they are not evil...but like Eve ....thoroughly deceived.

I know I'm the last person you want hear from again, but I hope you just reason on a few things.  

You are saying that everyone who abandons the organization are deceived, while everyone who remains in the organization; and listens to doctrine that out of necessity, must be changed…calling it “new light”…are not deceived.  Does this make sense to you?  Were you never deceived into believing in a doctrine, that eventually was replaced? Of course, all JWs have experienced this. Do you remember what D. Splane said about the locusts in Joel?  The man obviously had to cover over for the inability of past leaders to read Joel’s account.  In 2020, the GB have finally found out that the locusts came against Israel – and not that Israel WERE the locusts.  How many years did it take one of your insightful leaders to read that entire book, and find out otherwise?

21 hours ago, Thinking said:

He USES faulty sinful men..men who make serious errors...such as Moses Jonah..King David..and yes even and more so theGB...to get his job done but to teach us and them...it is HE...and only HE..who achieves his desired plans...regardless of who he uses.

To continually refer to Moses and King David by comparing these men to the GB is ignorance.  It’s like a plague among JWs.   These were prophetic, inspired men.  Is there any comparison of their trials, their sufferings, their accomplishments, to the GB?  What trials do these men face?  What to have for breakfast? What sort of ornate sewer cover should be used on the grounds at Warwick?    Didn’t the faithful ancient messengers of God, uphold the Word of God, even if they made a mistake?  Didn’t they feel incredibly guilty for their mistakes?  When was the last time the GB said, “I’m sorry.  I am guilty of misleading Your people, Heavenly Father, by teaching fabrications from my own mind”.  (Jer 23:16) But...that is the organization's history!  All of their false prophesies, their failed doctrine had no source in the Holy Spirit.  While, on the other hand, Moses, David, Jonah, were all led by Holy Spirit.  Has the GB ever announced to JWs, “we are so sorry for misleading you with LIES”.  (Isa 44:20,24,25)  No, they give you excuses, like the barking dog story.  I doubt that Jesus Christ will accept that excuse when he returns.  Matt 12:37

Yes, you are right, in that there are many who fall victim to deceit when leaving the Wt., but the deception is greatest inside the walls that are continually patched, repeatedly whitewashed, made “new”…only with one underlying reason, to deceive the “elect” and to keep them help captive to “philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elements of the world, rather than Christ.”  (Col 2:8; Matt 24:23-27)

What are the elements of the world?  Everything that has to do with the earthly organization.  

The bulk of the anointed “elect” are not found outside the Wt., but reside with all JWs, as a camp surrounded by demonic expressions.  (Rev 16:13-16; 20:7-10)

Just for a moment, look at the definition of “deceit”:

 “the act of causing someone to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid : the act or practice of deceiving : deception achieving one's goals through a web of deceit.”

Then, picture the Awake magazine with the physical generation of 1914 who have since, all died. They were deceived. It cannot be denied.    Which deception is greater, telling thousands of people that they will not die before Armageddon comes, or telling someone that they should believe in the trinity?

As far as unity, many religions, "Christian" and  pagan, are highly skilled at unifying its members.  It is nothing new. 

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/87861-exclusive-devotion/?tab=comments#comment-148084 

This is what the Lord God says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing. 4 Your prophets, Israel, are like jackals among ruins. 5 You did not go up to the gaps or restore the wall around the house of Israel so that it might stand in battle on the day of the Lord. 6 They saw false visions and their divinations were a lie. They claimed, “This is the Lord’s declaration,” when the Lord did not send them, yet they wait for the fulfillment of their message. 7 Didn’t you see a false vision and speak a lying divination when you proclaimed, “This is the Lord’s declaration,” even though I had not spoken?  Ezek chapter 13

https://pearl-anillustration.blogspot.com/

[Witness]

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I know it's just click bate from you but I'm not busy so I'll chip in.

What you have written is a lie. Especially if a person chooses to be a JW. 

Firstly they get baptised into an Organisation by not following scripture. 

Secondly they learn or have learnt the words of men from books written by men. 

Thirdly they do ministry by teaching the words of men, not the words of God. 

Fourthly they stand at a cart / trolly distributing more words of men. Lies written in magazines or leaflets to mislead people.

Fifth they have to be part of pretending to know 'the day and the hour' of Armageddon. They have to frighten people to bring them into the Org.  

Sixth they have to keep the secrets about all the Child Sexual Abuse in the JW Org. They have to pretend that the Kingdom Hall is a safe place to be. 

And you pretend that people could still have a conscience ???????????????? 

 

Wow.  You nailed it!

[Witness]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. As measured by the number of doors they have knocked on over the course of a lifetime, each one in order to present the good news of God. Some of your “true anointed” have barely knocked on any.

You can read minds?  Or, do you have a crystal ball where you can watch all anointed in the organization where they go? You know the history of those who have left the organization?  

Again, the "good news" is preached to the "inhabited earth" - God's "land" - "Israel", as a "testimony to all the nations".   You're barking up the wrong tree; or I should say, you are knocking on the wrong door.  Okay, I'm leaving scriptures which I know bother you.  Just copy, and paste and them on biblegateway.  Perhaps you can see who receives the message in the last days.  I so wish you could.  

Ezek 3:4,18; Jer 25:29-31; Matt 24:14; 10:23; Rev 1:11; 11:1-5; 18:4-8

[xero]

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I know it's just click bate from you but I'm not busy so I'll chip in.

What you have written is a lie. Especially if a person chooses to be a JW. 

Firstly they get baptised into an Organisation by not following scripture. 

Secondly they learn or have learnt the words of men from books written by men. 

Thirdly they do ministry by teaching the words of men, not the words of God. 

Fourthly they stand at a cart / trolly distributing more words of men. Lies written in magazines or leaflets to mislead people.

Fifth they have to be part of pretending to know 'the day and the hour' of Armageddon. They have to frighten people to bring them into the Org.  

Sixth they have to keep the secrets about all the Child Sexual Abuse in the JW Org. They have to pretend that the Kingdom Hall is a safe place to be. 

And you pretend that people could still have a conscience ???????????????? 

 

I can't help but imagine a dog drinking greedily from a toilet when I make the mistake of actually unblocking one of your replies.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, Witness said:

I know I'm the last person you want hear from again,

Why would this be?

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Okay, I'm leaving scriptures which I know bother you.

This is because it constitutes art fraud in the manner you use them. I wipe the phony pigment from your application and I see the painting of the cigar-smoking dogs at the poker table.

[JW Insider]

On 4/2/2021 at 12:27 AM, César Chávez said:

 

I think this is a good idea. I see that many people have used the Weekly Study Materials, even some elders that I know. And at least one of those elders was getting them from a MS who emailed them to all the elders after getting them here. As unlikely as it seems to some, there is always a chance that certain persons will start to believe that this site, especially this forum, is somehow "supportive" of the WTB&TS when it clearly is not always supportive. You can't have an open forum anywhere that is always supportive, because a forum will (should) always be a discussion of pros and cons, evidence and counter-evidence, opinions and counter-opinions, etc.

WTB&TS should probably be expanded to include CCJW, jw.org, etc.

[xero]

Ex JW's imagine they have some kind of monopoly on hating their religion or that they are unique in any manner. A quick look at reddit (type in "ex-whatever") and you'll find plenty of people who are complaining about their experiences. It makes me wonder what a 1st century reddit would look like in this regard.

None of these human experiences, of course argue against organization. It does argue for being selective and taking responsibility for one's choices.

Now I've been poking around and I found this group and see how these decide what's important for them.

https://thegospelofchrist.com/bible-study-curriculi

I also found this:

http://oldpaths.com/Archive/Davison/Roy/Allen/1940/apostasy.html#XII

Every group makes decisions as to who is faithful and who isn't.

W/o some earthly entity grouped together to a certain concerted end, nothing happens. As it so happens, Jehovah's Witnesses have been quite clear as to what their message is - One morning before I could say a word to a man outside a convenience store he said "I'm not interested in Jehovah's Kingdom". I was quite surprised at the clarity of his response and that he knew before I approached, the end I had in mind. So This is the end to which the earthly arm of God's organization exists as manifested among JW's and it's been quite clear.

**Musing again....I wonder what the ratio of introvert to apostate is?

I'm willing to bet there are more introverts among apostates.

[Witness]

20 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This is because it constitutes art fraud in the manner you use them. I wipe the phony pigment from your application and I see the painting of the cigar-smoking dogs at the poker table.

Interesting that you brought  art fraud up...and not by accident.    I should be thankful for the reminder, since there are always new ones checking in on this forum.

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, xero said:

Ex JW's imagine they have some kind of monopoly on hating their religion or that they are unique in any manner.

On what basis was this (funny-weird) conclusion reached?

4 hours ago, xero said:

A quick look at reddit (type in "ex-whatever") and you'll find plenty of people who are complaining about their experiences.

One way to gain experience is to live by the rules of an organization. So, the rules of the group, largely,  determined one's experience. JW families are forbidden to celebrate birthdays. Well, some JW's children after they leave WTJWorg speaking about such experiences and have complaint about that. And what do we say now? How (bad) experiences are the result of a fall from Mars?

4 hours ago, xero said:

It makes me wonder what a 1st century reddit would look like in this regard.

Perhaps to try to recall the "experiences" of the early Christians over the issue of circumcision, the unfair distribution of food to widows of other ethnic origins, competition over positions in the congregation, lording over other ... etc

[Srecko Sostar]

1 minute ago, César Chávez said:

I really don't care about they're evil deeds. My concern is, this site is misleading to visitors. If the owner changes its platform to make that known, I don't need to argue with scum.

Amazing! Who force you to argue with people you called "scum" in your angry mind? Form your own Forum and put any alerts you want, for reason to not misleading people. 

I have nothing against putting “warnings” here, which would let JW members know that WTJWorg does not support (endorse) any Forum, not even this one, (because it is not under GB control) ......... but every “well-informed” JW already knows that. :))