The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?

[Equivocation]

Just now, Srecko Sostar said:

As far as it seems to me, GB member Mr G. Jackson has never before the ARC stated that cases of pedophilia in Australia, and in relation to the Branch Office Australia, are "false rumors".

This means that all the documentation that went back 50 years regarding the CSA  was not (forged) documentation based on "false rumors" by the JW assemblies and JW members/non members in Australia.

Friend, it still doesn't excuse taking the events of ARC, using it as a tool to spread false rumors. I had seen people take parts out of ARC to jumble it up with something else. To Splane's point. Don't you think that is a little bit worrisome? Giving people the wrong ideas?

Also, I addressed that, well since you are the only person here right now lol, what have you done so far about child sex abuse? You mentioned CSA&P in the past, this was before I was hitting the books with a high schooler mindset.

[Equivocation]

1 minute ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You gave me link on this. That is your point, i think. 

Well I did address that, but I added some people can pick and choose sometimes about Russell. As for the apostasy, mainly during that time, it was tough. The Great Apostasy is a concept within Christianity, identifiable at least from the time of the Reformation, to describe a perception that the early apostolic Church has fallen away from the original faith founded by Jesus and promulgated through his twelve Apostles. Everything seems to point back to the early-mid years of Christianity. Someone mentioned it is like a war going on, even today, relating to the ministry. Before the pandemic started, their were some opposing views to nontrinitarian theology.

[Srecko Sostar]

6 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

Also, I addressed that, well since you are the only person here right now lol, what have you done so far about child sex abuse?

I try very hard not to listen to "false rumors".

[Equivocation]

41 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I try very hard not to listen to "false rumors".

Yes, we all do - and that is both well and good. But like I said, Splane did have a point there, if understood. It is not only on listening to or speaking about false rumors, but on how damaging it can be to someone directly or indirectly, which can commit to harm and or injury, even death; for a recent tragic situation, a simple glitch in a system resulted in a death last year. It can also lead to problematic association and division.

But Srecko, I've asked what you have done so far about child sex abuse?

I'm not saying this to be rude, I am saying it because like some of us here you talk about it most (in various media, not just here) when it comes to this taking place with the JWs, so it is only right to address that question to you, since you mentioned CSA to @Thinking. and to be honest, I was expecting some insight threads on the matter coming back, there was only one and that was some years ago, and the usual continuous talk of CSA, WT, GB show that happens to pop up spontaneously in random threads - like this one.

You really don't have to read the below, it is only there if you have time to spare, it doesn't really bother me.

I can give you an example of what I've been doing.

Don't know if you know this but we do have Watchtower articles about child sex abuse and what a parent and or guardian should do to protect their children [note - ircc something similar, even mentioned here  about ARC, of the sort was but rarely talked about on the internet]. Not only it is advise to read and take in whatever information that is helpful, but we discuss about it whenever we get the chance. Not all Jehovah's Witnesses are oblivious to child sex abuse, and or the topic of immortality, for, all of us know, you, me and everyone here, man is imperfect and because of that there is sin. Even outside of the meetings, I talk about this in college, and yes, people are aware of child sex abuse, but they think with enough logic on what to do before it happens and what to do after it does, mainly when it comes to raising the issue - the subject of child sex abuse itself in general. Believe it or not, everyone takes a different action, sometimes bad ones, especially if they are not well versed in child sex abuse and prevention. But when you know how to deal with the problem, there is benefit. Also Justice is also isn't always clean, but that is a discussion for another day.

Last month, we had some students the Rutgers campus, who joined up in my class and she made things, pulling from my notepad:

Quote

 

[1] He made a point that in today's world, pedophilia, a disorder, that there are people out there trying to normalize it allegedly; mainly people who exploit the "I was born this way" term, and the few who attempt to act out their sin. There are also people out there who seem to pimp off their children to adults, which is, both true and tragic. Most people do not even consider lower class children when it comes to abuse; homeless kids, who get trapped into this, or led to believe that regardless of their age, they can give their themselves to someone. As for the problem itself, it always starts in the home.

[2] Giving child abusers a green light. Pedophilia is bad. People need to be careful of enticing abusers to other people and or groups, even soft targets. The EXJWs, some, equate congregations to being a "paradise" for these types of people, not realizing there are abusers who hang out on social media, even reddit, and they do have their own space on reddit talking about things, some who wish they were dead because of their strong interest in child; wanting to commit suicide. So enticing the abuser is a bad idea, so essentially someone can indirectly setup a school or a congregation, even a club for a potential danger, even on media, for Youtube, Tiktok, Snapchat, Facebook practically enabled abusers to find more victims. Disney was recently an example for letting it's guard down. This is why people who fight child abuse, do not joke around. It does get harder because of this, intensified with the first point. It is bad enough when abusers are attempting kidnapping children, mainly for the fact when jokes can be taken seriously.

 

So all in all, doing something actually reaps it's rewards, and it is a benefit, be it to the congregation, or outside of it. What some ExJWs do not realize is some people out there know these problems and will take the right action, they are not like the majority of people who do not know what to do - and these people may learn a thing or two if they are aware and someone to teach them or direct them to applying something beneficial, even for younger kids.

You might not like the fact that I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, for I remember when I was a high schooler, I had a few spats with you because of our first interaction. But now, I think and do things with logic, and understanding, positive decision making and had apply these things.

Had to make this known, mainly from experiences and what I've learned and what I continue to do. You don't fit to do these things, we really can't do much because of the pandemic, but we, even you have a foot on some platforms. Things can be done.

[Srecko Sostar]

25 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

But Srecko, I've asked what you have done so far about child sex abuse?

Nothing. While I was a member of the JW community, we were taught at meetings that we must not engage in the community on any issue that is outside the JW congregation. A JW member must not engage himself or herself around any changes that would mean contributing to changes in the environment and society in which he or she lives. And all such JW instructions was because it’s an “old world that God will soon destroy,” so why “fix a sinking ship”.

Since I am not an open person by nature anyway, the impact of such WTJWorg thinking has contributed even more to “alienation” from the problems affecting human society. The proverb says; "the tree bends while it is young." My “activism,” if that can be called that word at all, is a debate with people on this forum. Real activism requires some other people, "real activists" who will bring changes.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

20 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Someone here mentioned he misused Matthew 5:25, 26, which I don't think he did. to handle  things quickly and he mentioned things handled in a just matter with truth, and the point was focused on Jesus urging his disciples to be about settling matters quickly; this is general, like disputes.

Thank you , because that was my point. Jesus WAS talking to his disciples about solving differences quickly.

However, Splaine was using that scripture but he was refering to settling court cases out of court.  The court cases he was hinting at were the CSA court cases where the Watchtower / JW Org had settled out of court. We can see that because he said that even in they settle out of court, it does not mean they are guilty. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

22 hours ago, Thinking said:

You think Jehovah’s hand hasn’t been visible in bringing these innocent cases to light ….yes bad men do enter into the Congs….yes we have elders who should not be elders and who have abused their powers and thus abused the sheep under their supervision…yes the Branch at times have given directions they should definetly not have given…yes we had to change some of our policies….yes some if not a lot of witnesses may not be able to ever see this…or even consider such a thing because it has not happened in their congs…they have not been touched by such things…because this sort of rot is not the norm…it is in fact the minority…and that is a fact!!

I have also heard them apologize…from the platform for such things..and even in print …but you are not there to hear it…I was…you are not there to read it…I was….even in the current convention they spoke about ones wronged and hurt in the truth….

Have you ever been sexually abused ? You personally ? Because I note how easy you can write about it, just as a historian would write an account of maybe, 'thousands of people dying in a war'......  You seem to be trying to clean your own conscience by admitting that CSA has taken place in congregations. BUT, CSA Victims are just treated as collateral damage in the JW Org.  

Your first sentence here. I used to use a scripture concerning this but i was quite often told that the scripture wasn't fitting. Luke 8 : 17 

Berean Study Bible
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be made known and brought to light.

When I read your words that scripture immediately came to mind. But bringing things to light is surely just the first step in the process of bringing justice and showing love and mercy to victims. More importantly though is the shame that has been heaped upon God, which the Org say they represent. Shame because those things I've just mentioned have not happened. Justice, Love, Mercy. Instead this CSA / Pedophilia has been allowed, by the GB / Elders et al, to be a stumbling block to many.  

Going back to February last year, there were articles from news media, suggesting that the GB were about to be either arrested or some kind of warrant issued to make them appear in court regarding CSA in the JW Org. It seems that victims of CSA had been interviewed with a view to big court proceedings. THEN the Virus happened, and all this 'news' went completely quiet. (Those old news articles may be available on a google search). 

Along with all that, the news articles about the, '25 year Database of Pedophiles in the JW Org USA' has also gone quiet....   This all seems very strange because the Watchtower / JW Org seem to suggest that 'worldly governments' would hate them, and would do anything to be rid of them.  So why has all this information suddenly disappeared ? 

As for this, and i quote :

because this sort of rot is not the norm…it is in fact the minority…and that is a fact!!

The CSA in the JW Org has been proven in, Australia, America, Canada, UK, Netherlands, et al.

Here in the UK we have The Charity Commission's investigation, and the newer IICSA investigation. They are not apostate people aiming to do harm to the JW Org. They are official organisations that investigate all CSA crime. They are mentioned in God's word at Romans 13 : 3

Berean Study Bible
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval.

And as for your point of :

I have also heard them apologize…from the platform for such things..and even in print …

I would love to see proof of this IN PRINT. 

[Space Merchant]

@Srecko Sostar It has nothing to do with Activism. And the fact you mention you did nothing is telling. If you have access to media, you can teach/give insight on the matter. If I recall, you laughed at the thought of aiding children even though half the information was pulled from child sex abuse and prevention sources.

And no, the terminology of the latter did not change, granted, paid spots and programmed spots still exist.

But even if JWs attempted Televangelism, Babylon won't allow it - blocked. And granted you made references to Restorationism, you should realize that the ones that maintain their roots are not fans of Televangelism.

[Space Merchant]

14 hours ago, Witness said:

I'll tell you what.  You stop lumping the wt. in with "restorationists", and I'll stop applying your term, "prosperity preachers" to the GB.  Instead, I'll use a scripture:

‘The leech has two daughters.
    “Give! Give!” they cry.  Prov 30:15 

 

The problem here is, what was linked and shown to you were historical facts. Anti-Trinitarians who are trying to be like, strive to be are Restorationist, you are technically one yourself - the primary reason - you do not believe Jesus to be God. I suggest you read study up, to confuse it with New Thought Theology is just willful ignorance.

It is that mentality of which Kosenen was correct about.

That being said, ironic how you express ignorance on the history, as you have done with New Ageism.

But like I said, Prosperity Preachers were as such and the fact that they get less heat coming their way only makes Babylon stronger.

[Space Merchant]

@Equivocation That is a good one - Gnosiophobia. A phobia of knowledge. Knowledge and experience is vital and key, those of which I both have, hence the history of learning, upbringing, even debates and discussion I have been in online and in person. Majority of my debates were always with Trinitarians, former JWs, former Muslims, Jehovah Warriors, Calvinist, Posterity Preachers, Black Israelites and Atheists. Even outside of that Scripture, there is the Constitution, World Powers, Opinion to some independents, and the Left vs Right Paradigm, of which is often the battleground for Truthers. In this realm, I actually have a few rivals/frenemies in this regard, one of him I defended. But knowledge and experience to some is demonized because they are in the fear of being wrong or incorrect; should you make a mistake, although to commit error, they would likely use it against you. Even here, you can see this with the lack of Christian History when one purposely confuses a legitimate Religious rival who is a Babylon tool, for another, for this alone shows how Satan will use such in the future due to a willful and mistake.

And to add, Subordinationism is somewhat the birth anything related to Restorationism, as is being the earliest adversary of the Trinity Doctrine concerning the Christ.

Also your points are sound, like this one [We believe in the commission - preaching of the good news, they believe that God gives riches and wealth in abundance, using Scripture to increase their personal wealth.]

Also

9 hours ago, Equivocation said:

[1] He made a point that in today's world, pedophilia, a disorder, that there are people out there trying to normalize it allegedly; mainly people who exploit the "I was born this way" term, and the few who attempt to act out their sin. There are also people out there who seem to pimp off their children to adults, which is, both true and tragic. Most people do not even consider lower class children when it comes to abuse; homeless kids, who get trapped into this, or led to believe that regardless of their age, they can give their themselves to someone. As for the problem itself, it always starts in the home.

[2] Giving child abusers a green light. Pedophilia is bad. People need to be careful of enticing abusers to other people and or groups, even soft targets. The EXJWs, some, equate congregations to being a "paradise" for these types of people, not realizing there are abusers who hang out on social media, even reddit, and they do have their own space on reddit talking about things, some who wish they were dead because of their strong interest in child; wanting to commit suicide. So enticing the abuser is a bad idea, so essentially someone can indirectly setup a school or a congregation, even a club for a potential danger, even on media, for Youtube, Tiktok, Snapchat, Facebook practically enabled abusers to find more victims. Disney was recently an example for letting it's guard down. This is why people who fight child abuse, do not joke around. It does get harder because of this, intensified with the first point. It is bad enough when abusers are attempting kidnapping children, mainly for the fact when jokes can be taken seriously.

That is essentially what has been taking place for the ones unequipped regardless of institutions. This is what shows the difference between such people vs Activist on the matter, for they, as mentioned before, go on a warpath that only results in more problems, at times, they themselves do not know right behind them their are abusers and those who defend abuse, ironically enough ExJWs got defenders in there and they do not even know it. And you're right, in some media, such ones often send the abusers in the direction of children unknowingly. In the Truther Community, many, including myself has seen and read crazy things, this is why the kids I taught applied everything they learned to better protect themselves. The situation with pedophilia stems from today's ill minded society, and gets worse in the US and the UK, whereas in the UK is is complex due to how the law works there - for the justice system is unclean at times.

That being said, I am aware of such people lurking on social media, even in places like read, I think on YouTube one of them was reinstated.
 

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The problem here is, what was linked and shown to you were historical facts. Anti-Trinitarians who are trying to be like, strive to be are Restorationist, you are technically one yourself - the primary reason - you do not believe Jesus to be God. I suggest you read study up, to confuse it with New Thought Theology is just willful ignorance.

It is that mentality of which Kosenen was correct about.

That being said, ironic how you express ignorance on the history, as you have done with New Ageism.

But like I said, Prosperity Preachers were as such and the fact that they get less heat coming their way only makes Babylon stronger.

SM, you bring to the table, phrases and philosophies outside of the Wt. That's fine, but if I choose to call the GB "prosperity preachers", it is because they are.  They may not fit your definition according to your restricted terms, but their actions show them up to be men who revel in fleshly desires and dominance over others.  That is only possible by promoting the need for money.  Lumping the Wt into your worldly definitions may work for you, but it doesn't work with me.  I don't need to dig into New Thought Theology or New Ageism, to understand that the scriptures relate to "my people", the "saints"/priesthood in the organization. (Rev 18:4-8) 

[Srecko Sostar]

43 minutes ago, Witness said:

SM, you bring to the table, phrases and philosophies outside of the Wt. That's fine, but if I choose to call the GB "prosperity preachers", it is because they are.  They may not fit your definition according to your restricted terms, but their actions show them up to be men who revel in fleshly desires and dominance over others.  That is only possible by promoting the need for money.  Lumping the Wt into your worldly definitions may work for you, but it doesn't work with me.  I don't need to dig into New Thought Theology or New Ageism, to understand that the scriptures relate to "my people", the "saints"/priesthood in the organization. (Rev 18:4-8) 

I think it’s always about how the Bible is interpreted and how far one wants and can go in interpretation.  After some time, people in the profession begin to give names to certain types of interpretations and to those who are proponents of such theses.

Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. - Malachi 3:10

Beloved, I pray that in every way you may prosper and enjoy good health, as your soul also prospers. - 3 John 1:3

So doesn’t GB invite its members to give material gifts because it will please YHVH who will pour out their blessings on them because they are generous. Yes, and GB talks about the same thing only with different tactics and other theological-organizational methods.