CHINA: Fake News vs. Real News

[Pudgy]

47 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Does this mean, Jehovah Witnesses use cartoon characters to follow God and Christ? Why not use Jesus as an example? I would think that would be more appropriate than some man-made and part of this world character. However, thank you for your response. 

The Cartoon Series "South Park" once had an episode where one Christmas Season in 1995, cartoon character Santa Clause and cartoon character Jesus got into a fist fight at the South Park Mall, surrounded by the cartoon children who were cheering on the fist fight.

The kids ( of course!) were cheering for Santa to win!

If the fight had been in a Kingdom Hall parking lot, I suspect Caleb and Sophia would have been cheering for Jesus to win, so there is that (?)

Sympathies swung over to Jesus, as the spirit of Christmas was said to be all about presents, until one of the children mentioned that as a Jew, they got presents for eight days, and they all marched away singing a Hanukah song.

... of course, all that being said ... I was not rooting for either, as I have no cartoon dog in the fight.

 

[JW Insider]

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

I usually like to hear people talk about their own experiences - how they fled - how they escaped and why.  Such as Tibetan families, Uyger families who still have families back in China....and women who were picked up by the government

I love the fact that you often take a refreshingly different stance from the typical narrative that the world wants us to hear. You deserve a lot more up-votes for that fact alone. But I have this bad habit of giving up-votes and then thinking that, in order to be fully honest, I should to explain what parts I was up-voting and what parts I still question.

When people give their own experiences about fleeing, escaping, and their horrible experiences, I don't doubt that such things might have happened. But I do have to remember, as others have pointed out, that it's a well-known fact that humans tend to create unwarranted generalizations from anecdotal experiences. This is why it is so important for news media to pick and choose whose interviews get on the air. And it is also a well-known fact that "state media" outlets with an obvious political ideology like CNN, MSNBC or South Korean media (just a couple examples) have completely faked certain types of interviews, or sought out biased activists who they know are willing to lie. Also I have watched highly-paid, well-known persons in US media like Joy Reid, Christiane Amanpour, Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, Rachel Maddow, etc., just tell straight-up lies, which they obviously knew were lies because they had contradicted themselves on the same lie in the recent past. There are tapes of the most well-known Univision reporter, Jorge Ramos, secretly deliberating about how they will manipulate an interview with the Venezuelan president to knowingly create a false narrative. South Korea has been caught creating "experiences" by getting actors and activists willing to lie about their experiences in North Korea, even if they had never been there. This doesn't mean that NK doesn't actually create those experiences for some. And just because Falun Gong has faked supposed photographs and supposed documentation about experiences in China doesn't mean that they aren't persecuted in China.

So everyone knows that producing an "experience" is the best way to get people to believe, and this is why it bothers me so much that the most well-known and oft-repeated interviews with persons who gave their Uyghur experience chose to massively change their experience when they (or the people paying them?) realized the potential impact.

This doesn't mean that the same thing doesn't happen in North Korean news about the West, for example. This doesn't mean that China also doesn't exaggerate the problems of the West in their media. But I've had my son translate a lot of local Chinese state media for me when they discuss the United States, and I haven't seen the negativity that goes on the other direction. In fact, I had him translate a recent speech that their President Xi made, which had been reported as "the most belligerent speech ever made by a Chinese leader." The actual speech was extremely non-belligerent, and required a very disingenuous out-of-context translation to make one line in the speech to appear that way.

And I know that you are aware of such things happening, especially in the area of the fear-mongering, exaggerations, and counter-narrative censorship related to the Covid-19 issues.

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

Much of the news received large sums from CHINESE cover organizations. At present more than 50 percent of finances for TV stations and other media is coming from pharmaceutical industrial complex as is the FDA and most of the Allopathic health industry.

I understand the second part of this, because the Pharma-Media relationship is obvious and it's well-documented. And of course, billionaire companies like Amazon are also media companies (Washington Post). The boards of Reuters and Pfizer have had overlapping members. I saw a list, showing that Bill Gates has spent half-a-billion on PR campaigns that can be repurposed as "news" without admitting that it's just PR. When you add up how much Gates has donated to hundred of various news media outlets, the totals are about the same.

However, I have not seen the evidence (yet) for these Chinese cover organizations. If you are right, I would expect to find them in areas of Africa where China's influence is growing. Or maybe India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Russia where they would hope to create sympathy for their projects or along shared borders. I don't doubt that something could exist, but all I have heard so far are claims from media "giants" like Falun Gong,(Epoch Times, Cable TV channels, etc.) which itself benefits from the massive anti-China propaganda expenditures of the Pentagon. (Reports from behind the scenes of the Steve Bannon, Falun Gong, Radio Free Asia connections mentioned earlier, for example.)

I have resigned myself to the idea that any defense of China will be taken as excusing Mao, or people thinking that I think China is some kind of utopia, or even thinking that the CCP can do no evil. The best I can do here is to repeat myself that China has had an especially messy and ugly history. Mao made terrible mistakes that resulted in the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands. (I know most people think I should have said "millions" here, and this will be taken as a complete "whitewash" of Mao. But remember that millions of persons died of starvation before 1950, too.) China is still a poor country with a lot of backward thinking by most of the population.

7 hours ago, Arauna said:

The West is imitating China - as I said on this platform before.

China has done bad and stupid things. The West has done bad and stupid things. Looking at the problems in the West as if the reason they are now getting worse is because they are imitating China reflects an exaggerated "seed" of anti-China prejudice that the West has cultivated (in my opinion).

[Dmitar]

27 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

The Cartoon Series "South Park" once had an episode where one Christmas Season in 1995, cartoon character Santa Clause and cartoon character Jesus got into a fist fight at the South Park Mall, surrounded by the cartoon children who were cheering on the fist fight.

How does being part of this world coincide with Bible teachings? I don't believe being a popular man-made character raises to that level of spirituality. Is this how Jehovah Witnesses teach those that have yet to know Jehovah and Christ, by comparing the creator and his begotten son to a man-made part of this world cartoon character?

[Pudgy]

9 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

How does being part of this world coincide with Bible teachings? I don't believe being a popular man-made character raises to that level of spirituality.

Wow ... I am glad you cleared THAT up!

I was SOOoooo conflicted ... worrying about that.

9 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Is this how Jehovah Witnesses teach those that have yet to know Jehovah and Christ, by comparing the creator and his begotten son to a man-made part of this world cartoon character?

No, but since you brought it up, I will be sure to take my daily Matrix inspired "Red Pill" with my magazine cut out photo of Kibbles & Bits.

[Thinking]

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Does, answering a question with a question a gimmick Jehovah Witnesses often use, instead of answering a simple question. I find it hard to encourage someone to be a Jehovah's Witness with such an attitude as a student of the bible. Does everyone here need to be a Jehovah's Witness or Ex-Witness in order to be here in this forum. I get rude criticism from both the hard left and right. 

Have you asked the same question of Space Merchant?

What is the purpose then to hold an open forum, if only you people can comment? Does this mean, I will need to be rude and obnoxious as most are here, in order to be accepted into this fold?

I asked a question on why @JW Insider was so concerned about China he was willing to defend a corrupt regime. I didn't engage in his personal politics of China as @Arauna is doing. There is no need for me to do that. 

If I wanted to engage in politics, I would offer the US finding of Human Organ trafficking by China that many institutions are aware of with the Chinese prison population. Well documented evidence of Chinese Hospitals preforming transplants on the same day an execution was preformed. These are human atrocities that happen by corrupt regimes. Even though China signed the Organ Harvesting act of 1984, it has not complied. Jehovah will erase all those regimes that have nothing to do with Christ Kingdom. 

No need to ask anyone if they are a JW here…but you did…arauna is..it’s obvious to all..so why the need to insult her with that question.

I dont ask space merchant as I know he isn’t….but I respect him and his beliefs…as far as I have seen he’s never insulted anyone…and I have learnt from him.

Look Dmitar..you seem to have been around the forums before …you sound experienced enough…..and no…people here shouldn’t be rude and abnoxious…it’s not the Christian way….but we are all so imperfect…we are all battling our own weaknesses …which is why I stepped back as I can be just as bad and my fruit ages of the spirit were flying out the window..but hey…you have had a few digs yourself…your human…

but why do you want to be included in this fold…but as you say…it’s an open forum…so good luck with it.

[Dmitar]

4 minutes ago, Thinking said:

No need to ask anyone if they are a JW here…but you did…arauna is..it’s obvious to all..so why the need to insult her with that question.

I see, it's an insult to ask if you are a Jehovah's Witness. I guess, I would be insulting you, if you are a Jehovah's Witness? This is a strange reason. You would think a Jehovah's Witness would be proud to claim they were if asked unless they had a dark side to them, and they wished not to be associated with that organization they disparage by name and action.

However, that means you're being rude and obnoxious is because you believe my question was insulting to another. Is this correct?

10 minutes ago, Thinking said:

I dont ask space merchant as I know he isn’t….but I respect him and his beliefs…as far as I have seen he’s never insulted anyone…and I have learnt from him.

Then you only ask people you wish to be quarrelsome with.

12 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Look Dmitar..you seem to have been around the forums before …you sound experienced enough…..and no…people here shouldn’t be rude and abnoxious…it’s not the Christian way….but we are all so imperfect…we are all battling our own weaknesses …which is why I stepped back as I can be just as bad and my fruit ages of the spirit were flying out the window..but hey…you have had a few digs yourself…your human…

but why do you want to be included in this fold…but as you say…it’s an open forum…so good luck with it.

None Responsive. I won't dignify it with a response, as it is simply adding to being quarrelsome, which is not my intent. It only saddens me, people here have a short fuse, and don't have common decency, for an adequate response.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I have resigned myself to the idea that any defense of China will be taken as excusing Mao, or people thinking that I think China is some kind of utopia,

“But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao…”

26 minutes ago, Thinking said:

I dont ask space merchant as I know he isn’t….but I respect him and his beliefs…as far as I have seen he’s never insulted anyone…

He did get a bit heated with PSomH once. But that character would test anyone’s patience.

[Dmitar]

8 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He did get a bit heated with PSomH once. But that character would test anyone’s patience.

Not to be indifferent by your attitude, but commonsense dictated to me to have to ask if you are Jehovah's Witnesses from a forum dedicated to Jehovah’s Witnesses Open Club. 

I see now, people here don't practice what they preach. But, you can laugh about it at my expense. I see now, you are part of false religion. Can you laugh at that too?  

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

see now, people here don't practice what th

Finding something to gripe about everyone - self-appointed judge?

[Dmitar]

40 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Finding something to gripe about everyone - self-appointed judge?

I'm glad you see that about yourself. I believe you also mentioned, let it go as a preceding judge. However, I will not lower my standards just to be quarrelsome with you. 

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao…”

Yikes! It turns out that John Lennon liked Chairman Mao and regretted writing the lyric that suggested he didn’t.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/beatles-the-lyric-from-revolution-john-lennon-regretted.html/

He and @JW Insiderwould get along just fine! In fact, didn’t JWI say he knows has friends in the music biz?

It is enough! I have figured it out! 

PSomH is John Butler. I am Dr. Max ‘Ace’ Inhibitor. Pudgy is—well, I know he’s been around under a different name. The Librarian is That ‘ol Hen. Dmitor is—the list would stretch off the page.

if you don’t have an extra handle, you are nobody! And face it—JWI is not nobody!

So……….(drum roll please)……..JWI is actually …..

JOHN LENNON!  (the pinko)

3 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Not to be indifferent by your attitude, but commonsense dictated to me to have to ask if you are Jehovah's Witnesses from a forum dedicated to Jehovah’s Witnesses Open Club. 

I think I’ve said before that my permanent year text is a modification of Romans 3:4.   

Every man online is a liar.

There’s no way anyone can know, so why answer? Anybody can say anything. It will have to be one of those “Does not the ear test words as the tongue tastes food?” kind of things, and if different people come to different conclusions—that’s okay too. It’s not as though anyone can construct their very own online congregation here.

I’ll say one thing about Jehovah’s Witnesses, though. The requirement to be humorless is not put forth in any of the baptism questions. Nor is the requirement to be holier-than-thou. Nor to restrict ones’ diet to Bible-sandwiches.

[Dmitar]

46 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There’s no way anyone can know, so why answer? Anybody can say anything. It will have to be one of those “Does not the ear test words as the tongue tastes food?” kind of things, and if different people come to different conclusions—that’s okay too. It’s not as though anyone can construct their very own online congregation here.

I’ll say one thing about Jehovah’s Witnesses, though. The requirement to be humorless is not put forth in any of the baptism questions. Nor is the requirement to be holier-than-thou. Nor to restrict ones’ diet to Bible-sandwiches.

Thank you for admitting people here have no moral or ethics when it comes to scripture. Why apply it if it's all for fun and games? It appears this site was formed to have Jehovah's Witnesses rant, vent, and politicize world events instead of complying with scripture. 

Once again, you are letting people here know your religion is false. I guess you're proud of that fact, unless you are former members insisting you are current ones. Then you would be correct, baptism here would be meaningless. 

However, I don't recall where my questions would somehow be seen as trying to form a congregation here. Can you explain your poorly worded sarcasm?