How present and communicative was Jehovah during the time prior to the flood?

[xero]

While I'm at it, circumcision? A lot of various people practiced it, but you can imagine a person who wasn't given some background as to why this was so critical could wonder...

Joshua - "We're about to go into the promised land, but there's this one little thing that will really seal the deal."

[Space Merchant]

20 hours ago, xero said:

While I'm at it, circumcision? A lot of various people practiced it, but you can imagine a person who wasn't given some background as to why this was so critical could wonder...

At some point that was no longer required, granted, we are under the New Law now. However, it does not stop the Anti-Pauline debates I often see going on, mainly when context of the situation is literally a tossing of the baby with the bathwater, so to speak.

[xero]

42 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

At some point that was no longer required, granted, we are under the New Law now. However, it does not stop the Anti-Pauline debates I often see going on, mainly when context of the situation is literally a tossing of the baby with the bathwater, so to speak.

Of course it was never explained at all why it was ever required. We do a lot of speculating, but that's all it is - speculation. The bible is totally silent as to why other than Jehovah said so.

[Pudgy]

2 minutes ago, xero said:

Of course it was never explained at all why it was ever required. We do a lot of speculating, but that's all it is - speculation. The bible is totally silent as to why other than Jehovah said so.

In order to understand what the Bible says, AND what it ALMOST says, one has to care deeply about understanding ALL things (whether we are good at it is a whole other discussion ... especially if we are highly educated ... but everything we know is wrong, or totally screwed up with liberal agenda claptrap).

The more you understand about life and death, freedom or imprisonment, common sense (which is not all that common ...) human nature, and the very real and difficult problem of governing groups of people so that something RESEMBLING peace, Justice, equity and righteousness may prevail, the better you will be at understanding unexplained things in everyday life, and unexplained things in the Bible.

Just as in detective work, philosophy and riding a bicycle, if you have no sense of balance, depth perception, or stamina, barring unforeseen circumstances which bite and bless us all, your trip through life will not fare well.

I THINK I understand why Jehovah had Jewish human males circumcised. (But then, I seriously misunderstood when my Guardian said he was taking me to the Vet, to be "tutored".)

"Back Then", Families, Tribes, and national groups needed a way to identify each other at a distance, and close up. Arguably, the only reason a person with access to soap and water, in their right mind would get circumcised is to obey some religious edict.

For 400 years the Jews had soldiers stationed at the Jordan River, protecting their borders, and they had several ways of "checking your I.D,", as you could be a spy, or a terrorist, or whatever you asserted. There was of course the "Sibbolith/Shibbolith" test, but  all other things seemingly OK, checking for circumcision was a pretty serious test.

There is more, but I may address that later.

 

 

 

[xero]

Also we're still assuming that all Nephils were male. We don't know that. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[Arauna]

On 11/12/2021 at 2:21 PM, xero said:

all Nephils were male.

That does not matter - hybrids cannot produce offspring. So if this DNA infiltrated humankind the Messiah could not be born in later generations. Satan tried to stop Jehovah's plan to come to fruition but failed.  Jehovah thoroughly washed the world clean.... the flood was a violent event ... none of mankind's work before the flood remained. All earth was cleansed.

There is enough evidence (current evidence) that hybrids cannot produce.... 

[xero]

@AraunaA simple google search would report evidence that although fertile hybrids are unusual, they are not unheard of.

https://www.quora.com/What-kinds-of-animal-hybrids-are-fertile

Again, it's speculation. As to the spilling over of DNA into later generations, we know that this can be lost over time.

We share a fraction of 1 percent of our DNA with an ancestor seven generations ago. A trait COULD be eliminated from a population. If the caananites, especially the Rephaim, Zuzim, Emim, and Anakim were somehow tainted w/this DNA it could also explain the giantism and the need to annihilate these by the Israelites. (If the hybrid dna somehow ended up in one of Noah's sons wives)

Again, this is speculation.

This is all we're talking about here. No one has knowledge on these matters with a capital "K".

We might also speculate that the descendants of the flood survivors ASSUMED some either survived through other means, were carrying the genes (though these lacked the language/scientific understanding to know about genes (unless they actually did and the knowledge had to be rediscovered)) of the nephilim OR that somehow new hybrid's were birthed by some unwholesome means post flood.

We read in many cases people assuming and acting on beliefs which they acquired through speculation which were not well founded. Take burial practices. I mentioned this once before how the bible is silent as to prescriptions for any theocratic burial process, and yet these had their own practices. Jehovah never outlined how the dead were to be buried.

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, xero said:

although fertile hybrids are unusual,

I know what you are talking about this is the Liger - between lion and tiger ..... but fertility is rare and they are of the same KIND - both are large cats.  So even in the same kind they sometimes do not mix.  Jehovah put barriers in place.  It is rare that different species blend such as a bird and reptile  -  you will find that different bears can mix and different dogs can mix such as wolf and dog.... but different kinds are infertile...... 

I know that evolutionists love to show this is possible because they do not accept that there are barriers to infinite change in genes....... but Jehovah put these laws of nature in place.

[xero]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I know what you are talking about this is the Liger - between lion and tiger ..... but fertility is rare and they are of the same KIND - both are large cats.  So even in the same kind they sometimes do not mix.  Jehovah put barriers in place.  It is rare that different species blend such as a bird and reptile  -  you will find that different bears can mix and different dogs can mix such as wolf and dog.... but different kinds are infertile...... 

I know that evolutionists love to show this is possible because they do not accept that there are barriers to infinite change in genes....... but Jehovah put these laws of nature in place.

All true, but what I've been getting at in all my posts is that we often don't recognize the presumptions and speculations WE ourselves make and how solid these are or are not in some cases. It's when there is ambiguity that there ought to be latitude of point of view difference. I know some who have no issue w/full vegetarianism and I'm in the same grouping and yet others say (as did one brother) when I remarked "But we'll be at peace w/all creation." he said "We're already at peace with the cattle already." His remark stopped me and I had to ask myself "Do I really KNOW what it will be like in the future under the kingdom rule?" I had to be honest and say that I didn't.  So it made no sense to argue about it.

Admission of areas of ones' own areas of ambiguity is not a weakness and choosing to die on these molehills isn't particularly useful long term. It could easily lead one to become soured when things change or when one feels that one thing was advertised, but another thing instead is taking place. We have to ask ourselves "Were those advertising infallible prophets of Jehovah, or just men doing the best the could w/what little information these had at the time"

[Pudgy]

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

I know what you are talking about this is the Liger - between lion and tiger ..... but fertility is rare and they are of the same KIND - both are large cats.  So even in the same kind they sometimes do not mix.  

I remember reading in the “Doggone News” about a hybrid mix of a lion and a rhinoceros, a “Lionocerous”,  which had the body of a lion and a rhinoceros head.

It’s fertility was never determined, because in hunting for food, it would pounce on its prey, and the heavy head made it do a complete front flip in the air, landing on its back, and getting its horn stuck into the ground.

[Arauna]

9 hours ago, Pudgy said:

It’s fertility was never determined, because in hunting for food, it would pounce on its prey, and the heavy head made it do a complete front flip in the air, landing on its back, and getting its horn stuck into the ground.

It could not properly survive and its fertility was not tested.  I am sure no other animal would have let it mate..... or if it did, it would produce blanks...... there is no proof of fertility when "kinds" mix.  Even within kinds there is often problems when they are too diverse.  jehovah put this barrier in place.  Evolutionists just love the idea. 

Darwin used finches for his theory - their beaks changed when the food source changed........ but most evolutionists do not mention that the beaks changed back again when the food source changed back.   But the finches did not become eagles or fishes or anything else that can be stipulated another kind.

Kinds cannot mix otherwise we would see many animals in africa that are mixed.  Rhino with elephant, buffalo with hipo and all those kinds of anomalies.  There is Zero of these interbred animals.

[xero]

Just now, Arauna said:

It could not properly survive and its fertility was not tested.  I am sure no other animal would have let it mate..... or if it did, it would produce blanks...... there is no proof of fertility when "kinds" mix.  Even within kinds there is often problems when they are too diverse.  jehovah put this barrier in place.  Evolutionists just love the idea. 

Darwin used finches for his theory - their beaks changed when the food source changed........ but most evolutionists do not mention that the beaks changed back again when the food source changed back.   But the finches did not become eagles or fishes or anything else that can be stipulated another kind.

The pudgster was making a joke. You're supposed to laugh.