After Forty Years at Bethel...

[Witness]

3 hours ago, Dmitar said:

ake example with the poster Witness. This individual venerates a blogger. By that determination, that person is a spiritual leader to Witness. Another thing you have not considered; a "gathering" The implication of a gathering is two or three individuals. If that is established as it is done here by @Srecko Sostar, @Witness, @Patiently waiting for Truth, you have formed an unintentional church.

I doubt very much that Heb 10:25 can be applied to the three of us on any given day.  

As far as "venerating a blogger", this is answer I have provided for someone on reddit, and I've shared Luke 22:24-27 with you in the past.  

You know, I came out of a religion that required obedience to men.  Luke 22:24-27 defines the rulership of the governing body (“friends of the people/benefactors”)  and elder body (“Gentiles”/nations)…perfectly.  Jesus told his disciples, “it is not to be that way among you”.  But if you notice these scriptures also point out that the “leader” is the one who serves – serves what?  The truth in Christ’s teachings – not the doctrine of men, the pestilence existing in the organization.   The GB fulfill the role of the “wicked slave” of Matt 24:48-51.  They beat down all who have a token of truth deposited in their heart at their anointing.  (Matt 25:19-21; Rom 5;5; 1 John 2:27)

The GB relish obedience to whatever they may dish out, and the “Gentile” “kings”/elders make sure that JWs follow their outlined feeding program. This is slavery.  Matt 6:24; 2 Cor 11:20; Gal 1:10

 The apostles were leaders in truth – leading people to Jesus Christ.  They were not human leaders over men and women, expecting full dedication to a human instead of to Jesus Christ; human leaders who decide that those under them must submit their "time" in the preaching work, or they must be registered as members of the organization...or they must not balk at any direction from the elder body or "slave".    

“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, since it is written, He catches the wise in their craftiness; ²⁰ and again, The Lord knows that the reasonings of the wise are futile. ²¹ So let no one boast in human leaders, for everything is yours— ²² whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or things present or things to come—everything is yours, ²³ and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.”  1 Cor 3:19-23

Anyone can question Pearl about her teachings and she will answer them directly, supplying them with God’s word/scriptures so they make up their own mind. (Isa 59:20,21; Mal 3:1-4; Matt 17:11; Rev 11:1-3; Acts 17:10,11)

“Truly I tell you, whoever receives anyone I send receives me, and the one who receives me receives him who sent me.”  John 13:20

 

“There is one who speaks rashly,
like a piercing sword;
but the tongue of the wise brings healing.”  Prov 12:18 – Matt 7:18; Rev 22;1-3

http://pearl-obeymen.blogspot.com/

 

[Witness]

3 hours ago, Dmitar said:

In studying their organization

Allen, are you saying that you are not a JW...after all these years of defending the organization, vehemently?  

[Pudgy]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Allen, are you saying that you are not a JW...after all these years of defending the organization, vehemently?  

And more to the point, does he still claim to own a 50 ca. BMG sniper rifle?

[Witness]

5 hours ago, Witness said:

I doubt very much that Heb 10:25 can be applied to the three of us on any given day.  

... on this forum.  

[Dmitar]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

I doubt very much that Heb 10:25 can be applied to the three of us on any given day.  

As far as "venerating a blogger", this is answer I have provided for someone on reddit, and I've shared Luke 22:24-27 with you in the past.  

I fail to see the difference given the definition.

4 hours ago, Witness said:

You know, I came out of a religion that required obedience to men.  Luke 22:24-27 defines the rulership of the governing body (“friends of the people/benefactors”)  and elder body (“Gentiles”/nations)…perfectly. 

God and Christ demand that of us, not men, even though that was the purpose to descend, Jesus a spirit as a man. Therefore, we are obligated as Christians to listen to that man if we wish to remain in his fellowship.

5 hours ago, Witness said:

The GB relish obedience to whatever they may dish out, and the “Gentile” “kings”/elders make sure that JWs follow their outlined feeding program. This is slavery.

I fail to see how projecting your personal feelings amounts to following in Jesus footsteps.

5 hours ago, Witness said:

The apostles were leaders in truth – leading people to Jesus Christ.  They were not human leaders over men and women, expecting full dedication to a human instead of to Jesus Christ

You would think, any Christian leader would exercise being humble and responsible. Where can you find a perfect man to commission leaders today? Isn't that the truth spoken in scripture?

5 hours ago, Witness said:

Anyone can question Pearl about her teachings and she will answer them directly, supplying them with God’s word/scriptures so they make up their own mind.

Spiritual leaders should have access where a concern is deemed necessary. How many personal conversations do you think the Pope has in a day, if it isn't indirectly mentioned to him by his Cardinals or Bishops?

I see no difference with a structured organization. Why should any Christian have a problem with that. It was conducted in the first century church.

[Dmitar]

@Witness 

What fellowship should I have here?

1 Corinthians 15:33 Paul is talking about those people with whom we associate or fellowship. We tend to take on the character of the group with which we associate. If we associate with people of bad character, they will succeed in pulling us down to their level.

[Witness]

29 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

@Witness 

What fellowship should I have here?

1 Corinthians 15:33 Paul is talking about those people with whom we associate or fellowship. We tend to take on the character of the group with which we associate. If we associate with people of bad character, they will succeed in pulling us down to their level.

Did that happen to Jesus Christ?  Did it happen to the apostles?

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

If we associate with people of bad character, they will succeed in pulling us down to their level.

Did it happen to ANY of the prophets sent by God? 

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

What fellowship should I have here?

What I'm trying to say is, this forum is not an ice-cream social.  Perhaps there are a few who are seeking fellowship; but surely you notice that it is battle of beliefs - of truth against lies.  Jesus, the apostles, the prophets -  all "associated" with people of bad character in the sense of bringing them their message.  

[Dmitar]

42 minutes ago, Witness said:

Did that happen to Jesus Christ?  Did it happen to the apostles?

What lesson should we gather from that. Once again, what fellowship is worthy here?

4 minutes ago, Witness said:

Did it happen to ANY of the prophets sent by God? 

Then why be quarrelsome about spiritual leaders if you indeed accept all men but one are imperfect, yet, God saw fit to use those imperfect men. God is not a God of confusion, neither should Christ followers.

[Dmitar]

1 minute ago, Witness said:

What I'm trying to say is, this forum is not an ice-cream social.  Perhaps there are a few who are seeking fellowship; but surely you notice that it is battle of beliefs - of truth against lies.  Jesus, the apostles, the prophets -  all "associated" with people of bad character in the sense of bringing them their message.  

What should that message be? To behave as the world does? What kind of message are we giving here? The message of Christ or the message of the AntiChrist?

It is simple to recite scripture. Does, that really serve a purpose when the heart is not set in righteousness? 

[Dmitar]

@Patiently waiting for Truth

What I find interesting is, you have confidence in the Berean Bible Society, which is very noticeable since they are promoted by Google for easy access. Yet, this institute, as I stated before is a branch from the Berean Bible Institute which in turn were affiliated with the Bible Student Association. They also have another branch called the Berean Bible Fellowship.

Therefore, you are becoming more associated with the Bible Student Association Theology. You might consider contacting them for fellowship. They might be more your inclination. They are willing to look the other way, when God’s Laws can’t. A trait only too familiar here among Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Our great commission What is it (1974, Berean Bible Society)

AGREEMENT AND DISAGREEMENT

There are few, if any, major Bible subjects on which all of the denominations and sects of Christendom are agreed. There is one, however, on which almost all of them agree.

The vast majority of fundamentalists, neo-evangelicals, modernists and Roman Catholics, along with practically all of the cults, agree that the so-called 94 great commissions containing our Lord's parting commands to His eleven apostles, contains God's program for the Church today. Or, to be more specific: Most "Christians," nominal or genuine, believe that our Lord, during the forty days between His resurrection and ascension, instructed His apostles concerning His program for the Church today, and they all call these instructions "the great commission," or "His parting commands," or "our marching orders."

 It is sad indeed that at this late date God's people, and even their spiritual leaders, remain in disagreement on so important a subject as to what God would have us do and teach. This is written in the year 1974 A.D., and still the 13 Church does not know what its great commission is! This is because the so called "great commission" is so rarely examined and expounded. Rather it is mentioned, referred to, and phrases from the record taken out of context as topics for sermons!

In writing of “The Great Blunder of the Church” we are giving special attention to the great blunder of confusing and mixing the hope, calling and program of Israel, with the hope, calling and program of the Church, which is designated, “the Body of Christ.” Many have been taught the great blunder of mixing law and grace, which mixture produces a perverted gospel which subverts the soul. But the great blunder, to which we refer, which includes frustrating the grace of God by bringing into the reign of grace some of Israel’s program from under the reign of law, goes far beyond that. Many spiritual “grace” preachers, who would never intentionally mix law and grace, do mix the “kingdom of heaven” program, in the Synoptic Gospels and in the Book of Acts, with the program designated “the dispensation of the grace of God.” They also have failed to rightly divide the Word of Truth as to the different ministries of Peter and Paul, as stated in Galatians 2:7 to 9.

 

 *** w74 2/15 pp. 123-124 par. 17 Widening Out in Our Love for Mankind ***

¹⁷ In view of the far greater danger in which humans are today, should we think that our responsibility for the lives of people is less than Ezekiel’s? Surely not! The commission to preach and make disciples given by Jesus Christ over nineteen centuries ago was to continue in force “until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matt. 28:19, 20) Do you keenly sense your responsibility in carrying out this commission?

Perhaps you can see the similarities while thinking about the differences.