Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?

[Dmitar]

@Srecko Sostar I believe @Arauna, was wrongfully motived to defend her fake sister when that person wrongfully stated angels have different laws in heaven from us on earth. Like I mentioned, how does misrepresenting scripture make any sense? Then @Arauna wanted to justify her argument with the phrase free will. After, she made several more mistakes.

These people definitely need to learn scripture, but they seem to think by trying to prove me wrong, they prove, they are unredacted when it comes to bible understanding. Now, I'm not saying ExJWs are any better, but they should know better. That's why I will never believe they are JWs in good standing.

(Jeremiah 33:25) 25 “This is what Jehovah says: ‘Just as surely as I have established my covenant regarding the day and the night, the laws of heaven and earth, 
 

 

[JW Insider]

On 3/28/2022 at 3:53 PM, Dmitar said:

How is your @JW Insider style of argument, make it incorrect? If you don't understand my post, it's simple, stay out of my conversation and stop being obtuse like @JW Insider  provoking a meaningless argument.

Several people here have understood you to say that you plan to leave this discussion forum soon, or perhaps at least the name "Dmitar" will be leaving the forum. If this is true, I wanted to say that I have found things you have said on certain subjects to be valuable. I might have never looked at the apocryphal book of Judith, for example, if it had not been for your serious utilization of that book. I typically don't try to access commentaries from the late 1700's and early 1800's but have made exceptions after you have quoted from them. These excursions often take me to some additional books that you quoted from or where your sources provide footnotes to other resources. I have learned a lot from them.

You often quote interesting information that sends me searching for where you got it from. I will honestly miss some of this.

I find the intensity and zeal and emotion with which you defend the faith to be unmatched, and it makes me wonder sometimes if there were not perhaps examples like this in the first century where we sometimes read of "sharp bursts of anger," or the disciples like James and John who were also given the name ' Bo·a·nerʹges, which means “Sons of Thunder.” ' You have made me wonder about the range of characteristics among Christian congregations in all ages.

Naturally, since this is a discussion forum, I will often make it known when I think a Biblical or even a secular idea is being misrepresented or exaggerated. I thank you for engaging on topics that many others find too tedious to attempt.

On the other hand, from everything you've said, I already know what you'll think of any counsel or criticism that comes from me. But this doesn't mean I must hold back from giving it, just as you don't seem to hold back much. I won't try to make a list of things I find disagreeable, but as you move along from here to other places, I do hope that you will consider a couple of things:

I think you will likely find it easier to make important points and get them across if you spend less time picking fights with others, or repeatedly reviling others to prove your superiority or knowledge. In the past I would have pointed out other things I noticed, too, but I've seen what I perceive as real improvement on several of those other things I've complained about in the past.  I think the one habit of yours that gets in your own way the most is "projection." When you do something wrong (like pick fights, revile others, or look for little ways to cause contention) you apparently want to blame others for the same thing. You seem to always want to make these things someone else's problems instead of owning up to them yourself.

By "projection" of course I mean in the sense of the definition found here:

Projection

Reviewed by Psychology Today Staff

Projection is the process of displacing one’s feelings onto a different person, animal, or object. The term is most commonly used to describe defensive projection—attributing one’s own unacceptable urges to another. For example, if someone continuously bullies and ridicules a peer about his insecurities, the bully might be projecting his own struggle with self-esteem onto the other person.

Other than those issues, I think I'll really miss a lot of what you have been able to offer over the years.

[Pudgy]

 

…… It’s like when somebody hits you in the head with a ball peen hammer to make your headache less, or at least take your mind off of it. No matter what else is the case it feels good when they quit.

If Dmitar does quit April 2, as he indicated, I figure it’s just a matter of time before he comes back, perhaps with a Richard Nixon mask.

[Thinking]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Several people here have understood you to say that you plan to leave this discussion forum soon, or perhaps at least the name "Ditmar" will be leaving the forum. If this is true, I wanted to say that I have found things you have said on certain subjects to be valuable. I might have never looked at the apocryphal book of Judith, for example, if it had not been for your serious utilization of that book. I typically don't try to access commentaries from the late 1700's and early 1800's but have made exceptions after you have quoted from them. These excursions often take me to some additional books that you quoted from or where your sources provide footnotes to other resources. I have learned a lot from them.

You often quote interesting information that sends me searching for where you got it from. I will honestly miss some of this.

I find the intensity and zeal and emotion with which you defend the faith to be unmatched, and it makes me wonder sometimes if there were not perhaps examples like this in the first century where we sometimes read of "sharp bursts of anger," or the disciples like James and John who were also given the name ' Bo·a·nerʹges, which means “Sons of Thunder.” ' You have made me wonder about the range of characteristics among Christian congregations in all ages.

Naturally, since this is a discussion forum, I will often make it known when I think a Biblical or even a secular idea is being misrepresented or exaggerated. I thank you for engaging on topics that many others find too tedious to attempt.

On the other hand, from everything you've said, I already know what you'll think of any counsel or criticism that comes from me. But this doesn't mean I must hold back from giving it, just as you don't seem to hold back much. I won't try to make a list of things I find disagreeable, but as you move along from here to other places, I do hope that you will consider a couple of things:

I think you will likely find it easier to make important points and get them across if you spend less time picking fights with others, or repeatedly reviling others to prove your superiority or knowledge. In the past I would have pointed out other things I noticed, too, but I've seen what I perceive as real improvement on several of those other things I've complained about in the past.  I think the one habit of yours that gets in your own way the most is "projection." When you do something wrong (like pick fights, revile others, or look for little ways to cause contention) you apparently want to blame others for the same thing. You seem to always want to make these things someone else's problems instead of owning up to them yourself.

By "projection" of course I mean in the sense of the definition found here:

Projection

Reviewed by Psychology Today Staff

Projection is the process of displacing one’s feelings onto a different person, animal, or object. The term is most commonly used to describe defensive projection—attributing one’s own unacceptable urges to another. For example, if someone continuously bullies and ridicules a peer about his insecurities, the bully might be projecting his own struggle with self-esteem onto the other person.

Other than those issues, I think I'll really miss a lot of what you have been able to offer over the years.

Knowledge is not what is most important JWI….if he behaved in the KH as he does here..he would be spiritually  counselled by the elders…once and perhaps twice…and if he continued to slander other brothers and sisters and bully them and call out numerous ones as liars etc he would be disfellowshipped for that.

Any witness…real witness must conduct themselves at a reasonable level of Christian conduct …ANYWHERE….even on a forum..you cannot excuse any witness of incredibly bad ….repeatedly bad behaviour …just because he offers up some good info…of which I agree…and have even upvoted….just because he is on a forum.

Satan himself would offer up as good a argument..and even better..but we would not sit at his table with him.

Tho I have blocked this so called brother I can follow the gist  of this argument…

Even tho his knowledge is good and his defence at times admirable…it is rubbed away..and deleted by his conduct and absolutely incredible slander and abuse to other brothers and sisters here.

In doing that he actually backs up in a way others who deliberately lie about witnesses…he is helping and aiding their hated and confusion of nearly every witness on this forum and the brotherhood.

The woman who followed Jesus around continually crying out that this is Indeed the Son of God ….actually caused Jesus such irritation even tho speaking highly of him and in fact truths ..frustration enough to demand the demon with in her to depart.

Giving himself and his followers a measure of peace..even tho she had only cried out truths.

Do you think this person can really be a brother..going by his fruits displayed over a long period of time.
I openly admit he has much more knowledge of the scriptures than I…but I have had to walk away from this person because of the harm he does to the truth in his behaviour.

I have never seen such behaviour anywhere in over four decades in the truth and being on a forum is not a free for all as some seem to think….not for a witness of a Jehovah …not for a true witness.

And for those that disagree with me…then I ask you to invite him onto your personal Facebook pages or into your homes….or perhaps arrange to meet him at your or his Kingdom Hall…or for a coffee.

See if he turns up…he’s a con job …

[Thinking]

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, of course, Thinking's thesis about a special law for angels, and a special one for people, is not probable. Because both types of creatures have free will,  and they interact with each other according to Bible text. 

It is this/those characteristic that connects them more than anything else (life form, place of life and abilities) separates them.

I never said special laws I said different laws….one law ( applied to mankind ) when disobeyed  resulted in death that would be considered the first death for mankind …there was hope of recovery from that death due to Jesus ransom.

The same law when applied to the angels who sinned …had a different outcome there was no hope of recovery for them….their deaths will result In The second death .

My apologies if my wording was confusing,,,not that I think your at all genuine Sereko…I don’t,

[Pudgy]

Years ago, I took my family to a Renaissance Faire, where people walk around in costumes from the 1500s and 1600s, and they have Shakespearean plays, and jousting contests on horses, fake sword fights, all for entertainment  … and vendors selling giant turkey legs, etc.  Sorta like walking through a medieval village in England.  The entrance to the Renaissance Faire looks like a castle and is attended by thousands of people, who pay for this.

I paid a costumed Professional Insulter $5 to insult me and his non-stop invectives for five solid minutes were blistering, embarrassing, and took insulting to all new levels that I did not even know existed. But it was all in good fun and I laughed and laughed with a sense of wonder about how he could possibly think of such things.

The thing about Dmitar’s insults is that they’re just plain malicious and hateful with no redeeming social value. Actual slander.

Malignant.

[Thinking]

53 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

Years ago, I took my family to a Renaissance Faire, where people walk around in costumes from the 1500s and 1600s, and they have Shakespearean plays, and jousting contests on horses, fake sword fights, all for entertainment  … and vendors selling giant turkey legs, etc.  Sorta like walking through a medieval village in England.  The entrance to the Renaissance Faire looks like a castle and is attended by thousands of people, who pay for this.

I paid a costumed Professional Insulter $5 to insult me and his non-stop invectives for five solid minutes were blistering, embarrassing, and took insulting to all new levels that I did not even know existed. But it was all in good fun and I laughed and laughed with a sense of wonder about how he could possibly think of such things.

The thing about Dmitar’s insults is that they’re just plain malicious and hateful with no redeeming social value. Actual slander.

Malignant.

Well thank you..for I thought I must be going nuts or have thin skin …but I would have to say there is no excuse for cruelness…and at some stage someone needs to stop such..because it cannot come from a source or spirit as Jehovah …

[Dmitar]

15 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Well thank you..for I thought I must be going nuts or have thin skin …but I would have to say there is no excuse for cruelness…and at some stage someone needs to stop such..because it cannot come from a source or spirit as Jehovah …

You wouldn't be counseled in any KH, you'd be disfellowshipped no matter how you slice it, just like that obtuse mutt, @Pudgy. That institution has no need for more apostates. There are millions already. You should join them and stop trying to be something you're not, Christian.

[JW Insider]

On 3/28/2022 at 7:15 PM, Thinking said:

Knowledge is not what is most important JWI….if he behaved in the KH as he does here..he would be spiritually  counselled by the elders…once and perhaps twice…and if he continued to slander other brothers and sisters and bully them and call out numerous ones as liars etc he would be disfellowshipped for that.

I understand what you are saying, and for a while, I would have agreed that he was not a real Witness, and that he was only a counterfeit to make Witnesses look bad. I know that other Witnesses here also "disown" him from the ranks of baptized Witnesses. I suspect that his personality has already made trouble for himself with the elders, and that this is one of the reasons he reaches out here. Like the guy who gets yelled at when he's at work, and must find a dog to kick when he gets home.

But I think the matter is more complex with him. On the most visible level it appears that he is a living embodiment of the works of the flesh, and the opposite of every fruit of the spirit.

(Galatians 5:19-26) . . .Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, ²⁰ idolatry, spiritism, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects, ²¹envy, ... ²² On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, ²³ mildness, self-control. ...²⁶ Let us not become egotistical, stirring up competition with one another, envying one another.

But I think there are other "layers" when you peel back the onion, so to speak. I see difficult issues of a struggling Witness, and I think he is constantly, if inadvertently, giving us hints about these struggles. We might think that we'd never witness such levels of wrath and reviling and name-calling within a congregation, but I've seen such things manifest in otherwise well-meaning brothers within the Writing Department at Bethel. I won't name names here, but sometimes brothers in the most responsible positions --persons I normally thought of as loving-- could actually turn "vicious" against even the most mild-mannered and peace-loving brothers. But, right or wrong, it was usually because they were seeing something they felt was a spiritual danger to the brotherhood. Unfortunately, this could be taken so far that brothers in responsible positions even felt that admitting a mistake could constitute a spiritual danger to the organizational arrangement.

This is the level where I find some of Dmitar's wrath understandable. He has seen some of the things that I have said, you have said, Arauna, Tom, Anna, etc., that are very disturbing to him. It's because he feels the need to be a kind of "hero" that fights when there is any perceived "attack" against the organization. He is the "Billy-the-Kid, Wyatt-Earp-styled gunslinger of the old American West" hunting out all possible forms of dangerous thinking.

I've seen this hero complex before, and I agree that it tends to offer no more than haughty, puffed-up knowledge (but often just pretentious bluster) instead of love. If you have ever followed the early on-line history of one calling himself scholar_jw here or even Rolf Furuli, you'll see the same thing. They are hoping to be "heroes" to defend the less defensible traditions. Even some of the "fringe" Witnesses who have been here, and who offer their unique interpretations of prophecies --and who evidently think they are defending WTS doctrines-- will often show a real "mean streak" when their date predictions are questioned.

But I also see that kind of ego revealed in the sound of my own words, and sometimes in anyone else who questions a current teaching or practice. So, in spite of what I don't appreciate about him and others like him, I thought it was only fair to also offer anything positive about him. It was intended as a kind of one-sided "eulogy" if he is really leaving the forum.

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, Thinking said:

The woman who followed Jesus around continually crying out that this is Indeed the Son of God ….actually caused Jesus such irritation even tho speaking highly of him and in fact truths ..frustration enough to demand the demon with in her to depart.

I really appreciated the insight here. Thanks.

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I suspect that his personality has already made trouble for himself with the elders, and that this is one of the reasons he reaches out here. Like the guy who gets yelled at when he's at work, and must find a dog to kick when he gets home.

You need to know someone, to know that. I convene committee's not get dictated by them. I follow God's laws. You people don't. So, don't think for one minute, I would associate myself with you fake witnesses here, much less call you brothers. Baptism meant something to me. I have yet to see any committee not understand my position against apostates. Especially those from within my institution that none of you, should be part of.

But, it has never been about me. It's the falsehood and deception you people offer to the visitor. If you think there can't be someone as strong as Peter among the ranks, then you just meant one. Until you understand about "gifts" are, you will always be blind.

However, I don't need to explain myself to none of you. That you don't get to know.

[Pudgy]

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

….. You should join them and stop trying to be something you're not, Christian.

I disagree. 

I have never claimed to be a “good” Christian, and if it were not for the training and education I received from OTHER highly flawed Jehovah’s Witnesses, I would have had a very short life, dying on a battlefield somewhere, or worse.

A lot worse.

We should NEVER stop trying to be a Christian.

As the famous cartoon character Pogo once said “We have met the enemy, and he is us.”