Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Truthers do not lie.

We do not lie. And also do a lot of research in regards to a lot of things, even serious situations, other cases, some of our own suffered, but it does not stop us for seeking what truth is. even the best of us, likewise to our counterparts, the preppers.

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Christians do not lie.

Christians are to produce a true witness, and call out a false witness. Clearly, you are using a narrative based on assumption and no evidence of which you claim can be found.

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

All Truthers are Christians.

Do you realize these are different things. Different communities.

Some Truthers are Christian, others are not Christian. Serena Shim was simply a Journalist, I am not a Journalist as with some of the rest.

Although Christians are to speak truth, the latter community goes beyond that. This is why when I make the difference between the aware and unaware, I make note to it.

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

All Christians are Truthers. 

Again missing 2 things together without know the latter. Not too long ago you attempted to use a definition without even knowing the history, therefore showing yourself to be ignorant. One thing for certain, they do have tabs on your community.

You're so funny. So don’t you see that you have stuck to an intellectual trap and a mistake in the logic found in the claims I wrote, on purpose. Because I have a "motive" :)).

 

Truthers do not lie.

Christians do not lie.

All Truthers are Christians.

All Christians are Truthers. 

What is wrong with these claims? It does not include all other groups of people. So what was written is not true. Every man, religious or atheist or agnostic or whatever, is capable of telling the truth and is capable of lying and is capable of speaking half-truths and speaking half-lies.

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

1975 being the the start of God's Day was never promoted by them, therefore, the latter leaned on speculation.

Let's remember, again,  where and from whom the "speculations" arose? Within WT organizations by the JW members* themselves. 

*word members including all individuals and groups inside organization (FDS aka GB, writers of articles, illustrators of publications, elders, rank and file members etc.)   

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Let's remember, again,  where and from whom the "speculations" arose?

Yes! Let's remember where the speculation arose from? Foolish Witnesses, NOT the Watchtower or its GB.

Later to become propaganda for former Jehovah's Witnesses such as yourself @Witness, and @Pudgy

Oh! Yeah! I forgot and also @Patiently waiting for Truth

[Arauna]

To argue about insignificant things wastes time. So I have not followed all the comments here about 1975. All I know is, I was baptised in 1973.  I studied with a very zealous sister who reasoned with me on the 6 creative days. She said that if the 7th creative day was 6000 years with a millenium rest, it amounts to 7000 years. This would mean that a week of equal days would amount to 49,000 years and after that the eternal Jubilee........ which mirrors the Mosaic Law. 

She said there were a few problems, we are not absolutely sure of all dates....  and we do not know how long Adam took to give the animals their names.  I do not remember the rest. But more or less the 6000 years should more or less end in 1975....... So yes there was a lot of speculation...amongst all the fraternity. .......But u know how some people are: imperfection makes them go overboard; they become dogmatic or make rules out of nothing. 

Jehovah has to work with very imperfect people....and a good sounding  idea (even if not practical) can proliferate.

SO, IF JEHOVAH IS PREPARED TO WORK WITH IMPERFECT people,        WHY are our detractors  so dogmatic about this event in our past, when they themselves are extremely dogmatic about their OWN rules to JUDGE and reject ALL good things for the sake of 1975...... forgetting that they are imperfect themselves. They are stumbling over a stone of their own making.

I did not hear elders on stage talk about it but it was discussed a lot in private. 

[Dmitar]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JW doesn’t prove that all former JWs come together to be together. Conclusion; You making rumor and slender

When you make a false statement, @Srecko Sostar you might consider fact checking first. I know of former Jehovah's Witnesses making their own churches, and they also have plenty of internet groups to socialize and slander the Watchtower. If you haven't "noticed" you're part of one, here.

https://www.4jehovah.org/how-can-i-meet-ex-jehovahs-witnesses-in-my-area/

If you're ever in New York, Arizona, etc. they have lovely meetings. False Religion meetings, but lovely nevertheless. Perhaps you should expand your horizon in your area. I'm sure you will find friendly ExJWs to socialize with, and who want to disparage and slander the WT, and it's GB. 

Give it a shot! 😊

You can also go to @Witness a group of unjust Christians and join their lovely group of slanderers. They have a website just for your kind. Hasn't she invited you to join via I.M.? Shocking!

[Arauna]

17 hours ago, Witness said:

We can now see the political rulers or “kings of the entire inhabited earth” being gathered, under forces beyond human control,..... Armageddon. 

That is exactly what Revelation 19 says - 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

12 hours ago, Thinking said:

I honestly don’t think he is…no witness would talk as he has and does

I honestly think I’ll have to block him, my first block ever (despite some very disagreeable people on the forum). My spirit can no longer stand the wear and tear.

[Dmitar]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I honestly think I’ll have to block

Blocked!!!

[Equivocation]

Oh boy. 1975 Again? 😕

All I would say about this is that there are some who did assume something entirely different about 1975, and the whole world ending thing for 1975 was drummed up through some people hearing differently. This is why even today, people are getting quite annoyed with the 1975 thing spoken by only one side who says they were right, effectively trying to defame JWs at the time. Technically, when it comes to these things some people (as seen here) bring up the topic of 1975 for one sole reason: to brand Jehovah's Witnesses as 'False Prophets' by their own definition, ignoring what is meant by the word 'prophet' and what was intended by WBTS publications, even during those days.

I can also say that the 1975 ordeal did not occur until the book, titled "Life everlasting in the Freedom of The Sons of God" was released; published in 1966.

I realize whenever the discussion of 1975 does come up, many things are taking out of context (even snippets), numerous times to make it seem that Jehovah's Witnesses at the time assume Armageddon would come in the year 1975, which is untrue because like I said, things taken out of context.

For example, often, if not most times, the quotes are never addressed by the one side party.

Quote

 

But we are not saying. And don’t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975."—Watchtower 10/15/66 p. 631

This is ascertainable from reliable chronology preserved in the Bible itself. What will that year mean for humankind? Will it be the time when God executes the wicked and starts off the thousand-year reign of his Son Jesus Christ? It very well could, but we will have to wait to see."—Watchtower 5/1/67, p. 262

Does this mean that the year 1975 will bring the battle of Armageddon? No one can say with certainty what any particular year will bring. Jesus said: “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows.” (Mark 13:32)'—Watchtower 5/1/68, p. 272-273

“Does this mean that the above evidence positively points to 1975 as the time for the complete end of this system of things? Since the Bible does not specifically state this, no man can say."—Awake! 10/8/68 p. 15
 

"How close we may exactly be to the end of the present divisive system of things cannot be predicted, as Jesus reported that even he did not know the day or the hour at the time of his earthly ministry. (Matt. 24:36)"—Watchtower 5/1/70, p. 273

Jehovah's Witnesses around the world are familiar with these facts, and no one should add any personal claims as to what will happen before or during the year 1975. There are no Scriptural grounds for any claims, and they could have a detrimental effect on the preaching work. Strive, therefore, that you 'all speak in agreement and that there be no divisions among you but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.' (1 Cor. 1:10) For concerning that day and hour nobody knows."—Matt. 24:36.'—Letter to all congregations, 2/22/72

"Another feature of the program emphasized that we should serve Jehovah, not with a certain date in view, but with eternity in view."—Watchtower 10/1/72, p. 602

True, the most accurate Bible chronology available indicates that 6,000 years of human existence will end in the mid-1970’s. So these Christians are intensely interested to see if that will coincide with the outbreak of the “great tribulation” of our day that will eliminate all wicked ones on earth. It could. But they are not even attempting to predict exactly when the destruction of Satan’s wicked system of things will occur. They are content to wait and see, realizing that no human on earth knows the date.—Matt. 24:36.'—Watchtower 6/15/74, pp. 378-379

Nevertheless, there has been considerable individual speculation on the matter. So the assembly presentation “Why We Have Not Been Told ‘That Day and Hour’” was very timely.'—Watchtower 10/15/74, p. 635

'But nobody should get the idea that, simply by chronology, he can calculate the time of that “coming” of Christ for executing judgment. Christ himself told his apostles: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.”—Matt. 24:36.

 

What I have listed here are several examples, but there are more, often times ignored, but they all speak in the same effect.

Now there were numerous people around that time, and there were arguments around that time and the people who knew about 1975 often times won out.

 

Further information I found, thanks to Quora:

Quote

BAR_ANERGES - 

It is an absolute lie to claim that the Witnesses said that Armageddon would come in 1975. Here is an article from *1974* that I carry around with me which shows what mature Witnesses knew and were saying:

"The publications of Jehovah's Witnesses have shown that, according to Bible chronology, it appears that 6,000 years of man's existence will be completed in the mid-1970's. But these publications HAVE NEVER SAID THAT THE WORLD'S END WOULD COME THEN. Nevertheless, there has been considerable individual speculation on the matter. So the assembly presentation "Why We Have Not Been Told ‘That Day and Hour'" was very timely. It emphasized that we do not know the exact time when God will bring the end."--w74 10/15 p. 635

 

You will notice that this appeared in the Watchtower at the end of 1974 and it was referring to what all Witnesses heard at their conventions that summer. So the facts are that anyone who was saying that Armageddon was definitely going to come by 1975 just was not listening carefully. They were doing what critics still do; rip statements out of context and selectively choose only what they want out of the literature.

 

I was baptized in 1966 so I was there in 1975 and it had absolutely no effect on me nor anyone in my very large family. The reason that it had no effect on 99.9% of Witnesses is because most were listening to what was really being said and not speculating. They were NOT saying that the end would come in 1975.

 

The truth is that from the start of discussions on 1975, JWs were told not to speculate on what may or may not happen. For some, it was a real test as to why they were JWs. Was it because of a date to save their necks or were they JWs because they loved and appreciated the Truth and Jehovah?

 

The year 1975 can be calculated from the prophecies in Daniel and confirmed by the events foretold by Christ. This interpretation is in complete agreement with standard rules of exegesis. So the Witnesses’ teaching on 1975 and our being in the “end times” of wicked human society is completely scriptural.

 

What was said by Witnesses in the ‘60's and ‘70's is still true: the end is still near and we should live our lives performing “holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah” (2Pet.3:11,12).

 

From 1914 onward, ALL the facets of the "sign" denoting the “end times” have escalated to an unprecedented degree worldwide (Mt.24:3ff). No other time in history has seen all these things come on one generation in such overwhelming measure. Combining this with the Bible chronology’s pointing to 1975 being about 6,000 years since man’s creation proves beyond any doubt that the world has entered its time of the end!

Also this is a watchtower article from 1968(w68 8/15 ppl 494-501).

 

It clearly shows JW's never said definitely the end was coming in 1975. This is from paragraph 30 of the article:

 

30 Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years

 

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/196860

 

But real talk though, I don't see why people try to spin it differently to make it seem that the wrong claim for 1975 to be true.

There are many people who are still alive who were around that day, in their experience who never assume what is being suggested here. And because of the wrong information being used to point fingers, it shows not only some here rely on a False Witness, but they are not being truthful in their hearts.

You can't really say you follow the Christ if you're one sided on something, namely shown to be associated with rumors and or speculation. To those people, you kinda know who you are.

Seeing the discussion on where it started, I already know the party who won that debate; and by winning is the fact that the other party cannot really bring up anything claiming Armageddon was said or written to come in 1975...

Jesus wants us to be truthful, one can't be if they're leaning on being misinformed heavily with a heart tainted by hate.

[Equivocation]

@Arauna @Space Merchant @Dmitar One thing is certain - Eventually when someone believes a lie long enough, they'll think it to be the Truth, for if someone or a party repeats a lie often enough and it becomes the truth, this is usually the case when it comes to propaganda.

@JW Insider - I couldn't really see what was said due to the warzone of yet another 1975 debate, I think SM said you had experience that day or something to that effect, how was it back then?

 

 

@Space Merchant 2 Things, seeing "Truther" being misused several times you mentioned a deranged woman to @Pudgy and you mentioned a name someone called Serena? Although it may not be important, I was kinda curious. Also Pudgy thank you for the comic relief because it was somewhat of a task to read some of the things said. >_<

[Dmitar]

10 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

One thing is certain - Eventually when someone believes a lie long enough, they'll think it to be the Truth, for if someone or a party repeats a lie often enough and it becomes the truth, this is usually the case when it comes to propaganda.

That's always the case. One side note. As I mentioned, if you weren't around that time and weren't aware of some circumstances, there were also imposters promoting and feeding such nonsense to the brotherhood. I believe the word gullible can rightfully be used in this instance. 

If you do some additional research, you will find how a little church in New York started a "rumor" about the company logo of Procter and Gamble in the 80s. They linked that logo to devil worship. Soon after, some pretenders started floating the idea, it was coming from the Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses. That link started affecting the brotherhood. In some cases, JWs had stopped buying products from that company. That rumor spread until the Watchtower put a stop to that also.

[Dmitar]

@Arauna. I hope you don't misunderstand. In the case of 1975, you have been a defender of the truth. In this case, I reject the propaganda that was started by your brothers @JW Insider, @Anna, @Thinking, and @Pudgy as Jehovah's Witnesses. @TrueTomHarley just accepted their narrative back when this nonsense was first posted as truth, way back in 2016. It will never be the truth to agree with former Jehovah's Witnesses.