Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?

[Dmitar]

2 minutes ago, Witness said:

I know nothing about the Unitarian Church only a little from your posts that I may have read,  or about your "Biblical" Unitarianism.  I am asking "Somehow, you have decided you are a Preacher by perhaps your own labeling; or, did others give you that label?"  You are a man who loves labeling people, and beliefs.  So where did your label derive from?

This depends on what he has alluded to in the past, versus what @JW Insider implied and seconded by him in, recent post. There's a bit of confusion with those scenarios.

But really, how hard is it to distinguish a Unitarian, a Unitarian Church, and a Universalist? Mainly, the argument about trinity. 

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

How do you square this gem with the prosecution of the apostles, and better yet the followers of Christ? Are you suggesting their persecution were and are meaningless since you only recognize Christ and God? 

The apostles were persecuted because they were true, obedient followers of the teachings of Jesus Christ, and not to the doctrine of men.  Why would you say it's meaningless?  All who choose to obey Jesus, will be persecuted, they must expect trials and persecution.  With exJWs, it is through disfellowshipping, loss of family, and deemed as spiritually dead.   Luke 12:53; Matt 5:43-45; 2 Cor 4:7-10;James 1:2-4; John 16:2; Rev 13:15

If the GB are truly followers of Jesus Christ, how are they persecuted?  They control everyone and everything within in their power. They make sure to silence individuals who speak against them.   Those that are persecuted for rejecting THEM and their false doctrine, control no one. 

 

 

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

This depends on what he has alluded to in the past, versus what @JW Insider implied and seconded by him in, recent post. There's a bit of confusion with those scenarios.

I agree. 

[Witness]

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

And that is the point of what I addressed before, something Srecko and cohorts cannot comprehend. Paul was clear and concerning him such gifts had ceased,

No.  Paul did not say that  prophesy had ceased, and I'm talking about inspired prophesy.  @Patiently waiting for Truth is right, you are misleading a young one; one that should come out of the organization. (Matt 24:15,16; Rev 18:4-8)

"Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is ^[d]perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

"perfect" - meaning "complete", this will not happen until Jesus returns. Until the kingdom, prophesy, and  knowledge continue.

If you say that prophesy has ceased, then you may as well say that knowledge has ceased. 

Nowhere in the scriptures did the apostles say that prophesy would cease before all is "complete".  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pudgy]

13 minutes ago, Witness said:

….. Nowhere in the scriptures did the apostles say that prophesy would cease before all is "complete".  

There is a very simple and easy test to determine if you’re talking about an idea that’s reflected in reality, one that has a basis entirely in fantasy.

Please give us whatever examples you have of modern-day prophecies that have been issued and any that have been fulfilled.

We were talking, well at least you were talking, about the general idea of modern-day prophecies, which would imply more than one modern-day prophecy that you currently put your faith and hope in.

In electronics, this is called the “smoke test“, when whatever thing you have invented is plugged into the wall and it either works or it blows up in a flash, and a puff of smoke.

if there is such a thing as modern-day prophecies, they should be clear and unambiguous examples, plural, for the idea to be tenable.

I would be interested in the details, in detail.

Do you have any specific clear unambiguous examples?

 

 

[Equivocation]

@Space Merchant Yeah I figured. But I understood what you were saying before about Apostle John, I’d assume even former Jehovah’s Witnesses would know but apparently not. Just looking at the comments.... smh...

In Acts 2:5-18 there Jehovah’s Spirit poured out to the people in that room, all of the, filled with God’s spirit at the Feast of Pentecost. Even before that, Jesus had already told his disciples of the promise his Father will give, but of course you knew that because I remember you talked about Judas’ replacement, Matthias. Even during that day, Peter, as the spokesman, explained to the Jews the meaning of this miracle, that it was a fulfillment of Joel 2:28, 29 regarding Jehovah’s pouring out his spirit upon all kinds of flesh. Among the miraculous gifts, there was speaking in tongues. This miracle first occurred in Jerusalem on the morning of the Jewish Festival of Pentecost in 33 C.E. About 120 of Jesus’ disciples were meeting together when they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages. (Acts 1:15; 2:1-4) A large crowd of people from every nation under heaven gathered, and each one heard them speaking in his own language. —Acts 2:5, 6.

Such a gift had various purposes. Primary purpose was to show that God was backing Christians and to enable Christians to give a thorough witness. So with this gift mentioned, I kind of understand what you were saying about it ending with John. Many of these kinds of gifts, even speaking in tongues was not permanent.

The gifts of the holy spirit, including that of speaking in tongues, were a temporary provision. The Bible foretold that, as both you and @Arauna had said if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease. — 1 Corinthians 13:8, Paul's words.

The gifts of the holy spirit were generally passed on to other Christians in the presence of the apostles, usually by the apostles placing their hands on fellow believers as seen in these verses in the book of Acts (Acts 8:18; 10:44-46) It appears that those who received the gifts of the spirit from the apostles did not transfer them to others. (Acts 8:5-7, 14-17) In one of our publications, it gives an illustration about it - government official may issue a driver’s license to someone, but that person is not given the legal authority to issue a license to anyone else.

Likewise, speaking in tongues ended with the death of the apostles and those who had personally received the gift from them. Granted Apostle John was indeed the last one to outlive all the other apostles by many years, he was essentially the last one with these gifts, he may or may not have passed it on to his students, Ignatius and Polycarp. I personally don’t think he passed it on to them, perhaps John knew something, well of course he did, he had visions of the things to come, possibly knowing that Christians who follow Jesus and follow his God, Jehovah, can prevail without these gifts, who knows. So far, none of these gifts carried over into the second century.

Seeing that it died with apostle John, this miraculous gift of speaking in tongues, along with the other ones, evidently ended about the end of the first century C.E. So no one today can rightly claim to speak in tongues by God’s power, that is, if someone pretends to claim they’re an inspired prophet of course :), something I made that thread about a while ago.

Even though we do not have these gifts, true Christians be identified. Jesus said that self-sacrificing love would identify his disciples. (John 13:34, 35) Likewise, the apostle Paul taught that love would be a permanent identifier of genuine Christians. (1 Corinthians 13:1, 8) He indicated that God’s spirit would produce in Christians the qualities referred to collectively as the fruitage of the spirit, the first quality of which is love.—Galatians 5:22, 23, or what you equated to, to be Berean like.

Lastly, apostle John before he died, he had to essentially fight out against Apostasy, the last man standing lol. His situation was something his Igantius and Polycarp had to deal with later on after John’s passing. John wanted his fellow believers to be just as fully convinced about Jesus Christ just like how the other apostles were convinced, living in the truth, even the things heard about the Son of God, witnessing the events. John wanted them to share with the apostles in the joy that had resulted from their close association with Jesus Christ. So the whole object of what John wrote was to help fellow believers to continue experiencing the happiness resulting from an approved standing before Jehovah God and Jesus Christ.

When we preached door to door, not only need people took our publications, but they loved to talk about people, places and events in the Bible. Some don’t always take publications, but, they wanted to talk more and more, even wanted us to come back, they do ask for the website though. There were some who were amazed by the fact of what false religion teaches vs what the Bible says is vastly different.

 

Other then that it was quite cool to meet people like that.

I do have one question tho, you think even before Constatine the Great, that there were those in between John's death to 324-325 A.D. that some people did the same thing? Pretend to have these gifts?

 

[Pudgy]

If Witness cannot provide at least one, preferably several verifiable prophecies that have been issued and fulfilled in modern day times, she is living in a pretend world.
 

And that’s the fact, Jack

[Equivocation]

30 minutes ago, Witness said:

No.  Paul did not say that  prophesy had ceased, and I'm talking about inspired prophesy.  @Patiently waiting for Truth is right, you are misleading a young one; one that should come out of the organization. (Matt 24:15,16; Rev 18:4-8)

He's actually right, I just responded to him

The miraculous gifts of the holy spirit included were a temporary provision. The Bible foretold that, if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease.—1 Corinthians 13:8.

Not only does the Watchtower knows this, but people who understood Paul. If one understood how these gifts were passed around in the days of the early Christian congregation, it would make a lot more sense. I made a point to that, and I believe both @Space Merchant and @Arauna said the same thing. @Patiently waiting for Truth was more focused on the anointed Christians who had the holy spirit, but the fact apostle John was throw into the mix, it changes everything. Seeing that these gifts came to an end in the final years of the first century, it makes sense it did pass on with apostle John. The gifts were not passed on to anyone else afterwards, even John's students, and there is no history or evidence of others who had these gifts afterwards into the second century. There were people who did claim to have visions, but never had this gifts at all, or as to what @Space Merchant said, Prophets who are inspired and those who are not.

Whether Space Merchant, or his actual name, Baptiste, says something in a long post or a short post, if you actually read what he said, you'd understand, but from what I am seeing, if someone is actually educated and knows his craft, he a threat apparently. I guess discernment is actually a good thing. But he is clever in making his posts to root out something to challenge.

[Equivocation]

10 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

If Witness cannot provide at least one, preferably several verifiable prophecies that have been issued and fulfilled in modern day times, she is living in a pretend world.
 

And that’s the fact, Jack

lol. But real talk, I don't think any of us today had seen someone raise the dead, heal the sick, predict by means of a vision or prophesying, or speak in tongues all of which are associated with miraculous gifts. The only person who had seen one time allegedly speak in tongues is that one pastor, I forget his name, but this is his picture

[Equivocation]

@Space Merchant As for women holding a leadership role, that is also true in respects to what the Bible says.

But yeah, the whole Unisex thing is modernized, so much so it spreads to other things outside of Christianity. Protestants and Baptist have done something similar. As for the media source you quoted, I see what you met about Feminism or any agenda with that kind of media because head coverings and women being ministers is not an issue. I guess this is why you made the response to the thread about pearl, for now I understand why you debated. even so I guess the idea also came from the word "Minister", where some people would assume leadership, a role of leadership. Going back to Feminism, I guess you can say it's woke? It is in most of the schools and colleges, not only by some students, but teachers as well.

But yes, in our faith, women of Jehovah’s Witnesses are preachers, or ministers, and there is a lot of women who partake in this activity. For not only men partake in sharing the good news, but women as well Psalm 68:11. Women who are Jehovah’s Witnesses follow the example set by women in the Bible. (Proverbs 31:10-31) Although they don’t assume a leadership role within the congregation, they have a full share in the public ministry, I believe you said this also to some effect. They also teach Bible principles to their children. (Proverbs 1:8) By their words and actions, Witness women work hard to be an influence for good.—Titus 2:3-5.

I also see that @Srecko Sostar assumed your mindset to be like the pastor you mentioned, but of course, you already know what to expect from the Cedar group. I know about Steven Anderson, and he is a.... How should I put it, quite extreme in which he actually advocated in the killing of homosexuals at one point and had prayed to God for the death of former President Obama. Hid mindset on women was a misapplication of Paul's words. He is known for telling women to shut up and be silent using Paul's words without knowing what Paul met. He also made Sexist remarks about women and a list of other things. That guy is crazy lol.

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Equivocation said:

The gifts of the holy spirit, including that of speaking in tongues, were a temporary provision. The Bible foretold that, as both you and @Arauna had said if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease. — 1 Corinthians 13:8, Paul's words.

Once again, how will commentators here clarify the difference between "direct" and "indirect" prophecy? There's an assumption being stated here, which is not necessarily correct. 

It's true, the apostles had the ability to preform miracles that no one in modern time has. Did the prophets in the OT have that same ability? Those prophets also had a direct spiritual link, just like the apostles? When the last apostle died, Couldn't a True Christian receive heavenly direction? If not why?

*** nwtsty Matthew Study Notes—Chapter 18 ***
will be things already bound . . . will be things already loosened: The unusual construction of the Greek verbs here (future form of “to be” combined with the perfect passive participle of “bind” and “loosen”) indicates that whatever decision was made by the disciples (“whatever things you may bind”; “whatever things you may loosen”) would be made after the corresponding decision was made in heaven. Any decision made by the disciples would follow heaven’s decision, not precede it, and the disciples would make decisions based on principles already laid down in heaven. It does not refer to heavenly support or validation of a decision made on earth. Instead, it means that the disciples would receive direction from heaven, highlighting the need for such guidance to ensure that the decisions made on earth harmonize with the decision that has already been made in heaven.—Compare study note on Mt 16:19.
 

(Ephesians 4:11, 12) 11 And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, 12 with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ, 

EVANGELIZER

A preacher of the gospel or good news; a messenger of good. The Greek eu·ag·ge·li·stesʹ (evangelizer) is closely related to the word eu·ag·geʹli·on, “good news” or “gospel.” (See GOOD NEWS; also Na 1:15, ftn; Mt 4:23, ftn.) Jehovah is the Great Evangelizer, or Bringer of good news. After Adam’s fall into sin it was good news to learn, at Genesis 3:15, that there would be a seed to crush the serpent’s head. It gave hope to humankind. (Ro 8:20) Enlarging on the promise of the seed to Abraham, Jehovah declared good news to him. (Ga 3:8

 

[Pudgy]

Ya ever notice that ALL of today’s “faith healers” heal stuff that is invisible to start with?

…… let me know when someone heals a thalidomide baby with no arms or hands, with fingers growing out of her shoulder

THEN you will have my attention!
 

Until then, EVERYBODY is just playing with words, like a retarded kid in a pool full of Scrabble chips.