Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?

[Dmitar]

4 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

I have never claimed to be a “good” Christian, and if it were not for the training and education I received from OTHER highly flawed Jehovah’s Witnesses, I would have had a very short life, dying on a battlefield somewhere, or worse.

That's where we differ, I was taught by the best Bible educated person, Fred Franz. Even so, we all have a choice to make. You can either dedicate yourself to the service of God, or you can rely on your own interpretation of scripture and fool yourself into thinking you are doing the right thing.

8 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

A lot worse.

We should NEVER stop trying to be a Christian.

As the famous cartoon character Pogo once said “We have met the enemy, and he is us.”

I don't expect you to. I want to see, you dust yourself off and fight for your salvation. Ask God for mercy and forgiveness, even if you think you are talked out. Just like God, I refuse to see quitters in a race they started toward their personal salvation. I hate to think people coming here will be influenced in not accepting the righteous path of Christ. JWs are better than that.

Like I said, it's not about me, it's about getting you people here back in the correct road to salvation, no matter what it takes.

[Pudgy]

5 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

That's where we differ, I was taught by the best Bible educated person, Fred Franz. Even so, we all have a choice to make. You can either dedicate yourself to the service of God, or you can rely on your own interpretation of scripture and fool yourself into thinking you are doing the right thing.

I don't expect you to. I want to see, you dust yourself off and fight for your salvation. Ask God for mercy and forgiveness, even if you think you are talked out. Just like God, I refuse to see quitters in a race they started toward their personal salvation. I hate to think people coming here will be influenced in not accepting the righteous path of Christ. JWs are better than that.

Like I said, it's not about me, it's about getting you people here back in the correct road to salvation, no matter what it takes.

Yikes!

That is scarier than a President Hillary Clinton!

[Pudgy]

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

You need to know someone, to know that. I convene committee's not get dictated by them. 

It appears here that you are claiming to be an Elder of Jehovah’s Witnesses. 

If this is true, it would go far in explaining why it takes 22 “man-years” of witnessing to get ONE Jehovah’s Witness to stay his entire lifetime, and why 73% leave.

 

[Thinking]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I understand what you are saying, and for a while, I would have agreed that he was not a real Witness, and that he was only a counterfeit to make Witnesses look bad. I know that other Witnesses here also "disown" him from the ranks of baptized Witnesses. I suspect that his personality has already made trouble for himself with the elders, and that this is one of the reasons he reaches out here. Like the guy who gets yelled at when he's at work, and must find a dog to kick when he gets home.

But I think the matter is more complex with him. On the most visible level it appears that he is a living embodiment of the works of the flesh, and the opposite of every fruit of the spirit.

(Galatians 5:19-26) . . .Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, ²⁰ idolatry, spiritism, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects, ²¹envy, ... ²² On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, ²³ mildness, self-control. ...²⁶ Let us not become egotistical, stirring up competition with one another, envying one another.

But I think there are other "layers" when you peel back the onion, so to speak. I see difficult issues of a struggling Witness, and I think he is constantly, if inadvertently, giving us hints about these struggles. We might think that we'd never witness such levels of wrath and reviling and name-calling within a congregation, but I've seen such things manifest in otherwise well-meaning brothers within the Writing Department at Bethel. I won't name names here, but sometimes brothers in the most responsible positions --persons I normally thought of as loving-- could actually turn "vicious" against even the most mild-mannered and peace-loving brothers. But, right or wrong, it was usually because they were seeing something they felt was a spiritual danger to the brotherhood. Unfortunately, this could be taken so far that brothers in responsible positions even felt that admitting a mistake could constitute a spiritual danger to the organizational arrangement.

This is the level where I find some of Ditmar's wrath understandable. He has seen some of the things that I have said, you have said, Arauna, Tom, Anna, etc., that are very disturbing to him. It's because he feels the need to be a kind of "hero" that fights when there is any perceived "attack" against the organization. He is the "Billy-the-Kid, Wyatt-Earp-styled gunslinger of the old American West" hunting out all possible forms of dangerous thinking.

I've seen this hero complex before, and I agree that it tends to offer no more than haughty, puffed-up knowledge (but often just pretentious bluster) instead of love. If you have ever followed the early on-line history of one calling himself scholar_jw here or even Rolf Furuli, you'll see the same thing. They are hoping to be "heroes" to defend the less defensible traditions. Even some of the "fringe" Witnesses who have been here, and who offer their unique interpretations of prophecies --and who evidently think they are defending WTS doctrines-- will often show a real "mean streak" when their date predictions are questioned.

But I also see that kind of ego revealed in the sound of my own words, and sometimes in anyone else who questions a current teaching or practice. So, in spite of what I don't appreciate about him and others like him, I thought it was only fair to also offer anything positive about him. It was intended as a kind of one-sided "eulogy" if he is really leaving the forum.

I have had the exact same thoughts as you have expressed….hence at times trying hard to understand him and upvote his considerable knowledge.

I can also perceive a jealousy when he sees a bond between most of us….I get that…I can tolerate that….but when one kills people off and condemns  them spiritually …and runs others off….without even a hint of remorse…there is something terribly wrong.

Then at some stage someone needs to step up and say enough….stop.

Because kindness has not worked

I dont doubt what you seen at bethel….but at some stage someone pulled those brothers up before they killed each other…and reigned them in.

If he is a brother…then I would like nothing more than have peace with him..I also agree he has great knowledge but he abuses it..and it’s a shame… because it’s wasted.

I dont doubt it when he said he was taught by Franz….but beating brothers and sisters does not keep them on the narrow road…

[Thinking]

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

It appears here that you are claiming to be an Elder of Jehovah’s Witnesses. 

If this is true, it would go far in explaining why it takes 22 “man-years” of witnessing to get ONE Jehovah’s Witness to stay his entire lifetime, and why 73% leave.

 

Not many listened to Jesus Pugsy..and none of the original Israelites other than Joshua and Kaleb survived or were found acceptable to Jehovah…as to the 73% who leave…I dont know if that number is correct..but that narrow road is preety hard to stay on with one’s like this brother…..and others just cannot be bothered.

[Arauna]

1 minute ago, Thinking said:

ONE Jehovah’s Witness to stay his entire lifetime, and why 73% leave

I hope you can recall that the bible said: narrow is the road.....  - the holy spirit should help you recall this scripture and help you to leave off the felicitous and acidic remarks. Sometimes you are funny - but there is a time for everything. 

Unfortunately, I am a Christian who likes all kinds of people and can even put up with a few very nasty ones. But I am one of those who find myself. per occasion. to be nasty to those who respect nothing holy.  

Our fellow worshippers were talking about Dmitar above (I assume so).  I have also been unkind to him on a few occasions because of him insisting to be totally obnoxious at times - mostly unfounded.  I have tried to reach out to him.... but he does not respond to any form of kindness or even agreement. He puts himself above all of that.

You are similar.  You always have to turn everything into a inappropriate joke and there is little kindness or responsiveness to things wholesome.   I wish I could hear a little wisdom from your mouth. I would listen.  I am sure it is somewhere deep inside but it seems you will lose face if you do show your vulnerable side.

[Thinking]

31 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I hope you can recall that the bible said: narrow is the road.....  - the holy spirit should help you recall this scripture and help you to leave off the felicitous and acidic remarks. Sometimes you are funny - but there is a time for everything. 

Unfortunately, I am a Christian who likes all kinds of people and can even put up with a few very nasty ones. But I am one of those who find myself. per occasion. to be nasty to those who respect nothing holy.  

Our fellow worshippers were talking about Dmitar above (I assume so).  I have also been unkind to him on a few occasions because of him insisting to be totally obnoxious at times - mostly unfounded.  I have tried to reach out to him.... but he does not respond to any form of kindness or even agreement. He puts himself above all of that.

You are similar.  You always have to turn everything into a inappropriate joke and there is little kindness or responsiveness to things wholesome.   I wish I could hear a little wisdom from your mouth. I would listen.  I am sure it is somewhere deep inside but it seems you will lose face if you do show your vulnerable side.

I think we all just need to go for a coffee….or do remote witnessing….sort of trapped in a car all together…lol…I reckon it would work too…🤗

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, Thinking said:

I never said special laws I said different laws….one law ( applied to mankind ) when disobeyed  resulted in death that would be considered the first death for mankind …there was hope of recovery from that death due to Jesus ransom.

No word problems. I agree that we can find a terminological and practical difference in - a different law and a special law. But I would like to continue commenting on "different" laws.

There is even a difference between the law for Adam and Eve and the law for their offspring regarding sin. Adam and Eve sinned (disobedience to God) and according to the WTJWorg interpretation have no cover through Jesus ’sacrifice.
People after them commit the same kind of sin but have cover through Jesus ’ransom. Thus, the application of the “same law” is applied differently with respect to offenders and their circumstances. It is certainly an interesting legal moment.

[Dmitar]

4 hours ago, Pudgy said:

It appears here that you are claiming to be an Elder of Jehovah’s Witnesses. 

No! I don't have that type of mission. If it takes someone 22 years to develop another person's spirituality, that person needs to reconsider their own spirituality. God's Holy Spirit enriches the soul to develop good fruits.

There are dozens upon dozens of converts from the past that I know and are still around that were properly guided by the spirit, and they still produce fine fruits even in these trying times.

That's the blessing of obedience. 

(Leviticus 26:11, 12) . . .. 12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you for your part will be my people. . .

(2 Corinthians 6:16) 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. . .
 

 

[Pudgy]

Oh well … I thought it was a very reasonable conclusion, since you said Fred Fran’s was your teacher …

How when and where do you convene these committees?

[Dmitar]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

I have tried to reach out to him.... but he does not respond to any form of kindness or even agreement. He puts himself above all of that.

You don't need to reach out to me, I'm not important. What you should do is, continue the great commission, regardless of what your personal feeling are. I cannot believe, you have a NONE JW defending the truth more so than real JWs. How can that be?

Am I saying, be harsh as me? No! @Space Merchant doesn't allow for attitudes, even though he might slip once in a while with me. But, he puts his best foot forward, which is something you should all have learned long ago.

(Proverbs 22:29) 29 Have you seen a man skillful at his work? He will stand before kings; He will not stand before common men.
 

[Dmitar]

5 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

Oh well … I thought it was a very reasonable conclusion, since you said Fred Fran’s was your teacher …

Why would that make a difference? Being taught by a fine educated bible none scholar, doesn't mean they have to submit

to a minimal congregational responsibility. We work with the gift God has granted.