BETHEL'S BIG SECRET

[Srecko Sostar]

2 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

But they do have access to archives of their choice. Hence the question addressed to you.

JW members have no access to JW archive. Because public JW Archive not exists. They have access only to JW Library  What is hard to understand in this?

[Space Merchant]

33 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because public JW Archive not exists

Oh really? Then explain the links cited in this thread, and the one Witness linked? I even mentioned the debate I ahd with her orginally, both of us had used sources, however in her chance, she relied on material that obsure truth. Even Education Insitutions have them. All of them contain publications, some even early to the inception of the Bible Students themsevles. So if someone wants to look at anything from the late 1800s, they can find this information, be it one domain or the other. no mention of Libararies, as @Dmitar and I have already stated this, as is in his case, it noted there is a difference - gave you a source even which is a .gov.

That being said, this is the 4th time you avoided the question about the Holocaust.

If you truly believe in the words of the ExJW Bethel member from this video, then you'd know the answer to the question that is posed.

[Srecko Sostar]

8 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

 

, this is the 4th time .

Keep counting. If you do not sleep but count, you will go far in counting.  

[Space Merchant]

25 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Keep counting. If you do not sleep but count, you will go far in counting.  

Then you reaveled yourself to believe that the Nazi Regime started with Jehovah's Witnesses prior to the Jews and everyone else - since you are in agreeance with the video in question likewise with Witness who conisder the video to be factucal, then you algin yourself with this YouTuber.

On 2/11/2022 at 12:32 PM, Witness said:

His first-hand exposure to the facts, is eye-opening.  

The reason you didn't answer because you knew the video to be misleading (therefore, you had an Agenda to even shift the means of historical accounts) therefore, when a direct question from the video is asked, you deviate from it. Likewise with the first example in the video regarding race. The irony is you and Witness always question JWs here, but when the roles are in reverse, mainly when other partieis are invovled, its a problem.

Both you and @Witness claim this not to be misleading via your alluding in comments when it was already coined that the video has bias opinion and mistruths, as we can see the allduing in the first few pages, but when the reufation is addressed, you shy away from what you put on the pedsetal you claim as a truth. So much so both of you used appeal to motive tactics to deviate and obsure what was told in this thread, in Witness' case, she try to dodge the claims by saying because so and so are not JWs somehow the issue of race, archives and the Holocaust is somehow ailen to the onlooker.

That being said, a shift in history to befit an bias opinion shows that both you and @Witness have an Agenda, in adhereance to the video. Those with an Agenda, mainly when it comes to race, as is historical accounts, the Holocaust, will do anything neccessary to shift the truth, to obsurce it because they [you] hold some disdain for something or someone, so much so, the action to tear truth from limb to limb is an actionable cause; to see it as a justification.

Therefore, the orginal comment is true - the video is misleading. No one is asking you to AGREE with Jehovah's Witnesses, but you have to UNDERSTAND and CRITICALLY THINK here to discern what is true and what is false.

The Glasgow conundrum has not only infected you, but Witness also.

That being said, the orignal statement of the video being misleading, is confirmed to be TRUE.

The posiiton you and Witness hold is a dangerous precendent. It is no wonder Mr. Bill is silent for it is best to not get invovled with anything related to history.

[Srecko Sostar]

12 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

20 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Keep counting. If you do not sleep but count, you will go far in counting.  

Then you reaveled yourself to believe that the Nazi Regime started with Jehvaoh's Witnesses prior to the Jews and everyone else - since you are in agreeance with the video in question likewise with Witness who conisder the video to be factucal.

Your logic and connecting non-existent statements is fascinating. You set a thesis and if someone on the forum does not react to it, then you attribute to him imaginary motives, imaginary attitudes, imaginary conclusions. Just keep going, you're doing well, but you're not going anywhere.  

[Space Merchant]

46 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Your logic and connecting non-existent statements is fascinating. You set a thesis and if someone on the forum does not react to it, then you attribute to him imaginary motives, imaginary attitudes, imaginary conclusions. Just keep going, you're doing well, but you're not going anywhere.  

Sure, yet the responses do not lie as with the facts backing it. Because if you really lived up to your words, you'd be able to bring yourself to answer. Actionable cause is seen, as is your Agenda - you walked yourself right into that one, mainly when you tried to equate doctrine in a specific account.

That being said, you adhereing to a false witness, has been exposed.

On the contrary these are not imagainry remarks (debaters do not use their imagaination), I watched the video, i.e. examples 1 and 2 - therefore your reponse and Witness' were deduced, unmasked, so to speak. If you want I can pull a time stamped transscript for you.

Here you go.

[jehovah's witnesses in other words this article and the examples contained within it is meant to convey or meant to promote the idea that the nazi parties concentration camps were really just for jehovah's witnesses and that the jews and homosexuals got caught up in the mix but the real target we are the real ones under the microscope here that would be joyous witnesses that's quite something to really repaint history....]

Imaginary? Nice assumption, moreover, now that your Agenda has been revealed, the last thing you need is someone to crack the Agenda laced armor you wear. Turns out you also exposed yourself for being Witness' YES MAN. You agreed to a video you didn't even watch.... That is quite laughable, just like Glasgow.

Just the tip of the iceberg.

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Your logic and connecting non-existent statements is fascinating. You set a thesis and if someone on the forum does not react to it, then you attribute to him imaginary motives, imaginary attitudes, imaginary conclusions. Just keep going, you're doing well, but you're not going anywhere.

Can I ask why this interesting observation should not include you?

[Dmitar]

Truth Unhurt.

Truth gathers itself spotless and unhurt after all our surrenders, and concealments, and partisanship — never hurt by the treachery or ruin of its best defenders, whether Luther, or William Penn, or St. Paul. We answer, when they tell us of the bad behavior of Luther or Paul: “Well, what if he did? Who was more pained than Luther or Paul?” We attach ourselves violently to our teachers and historical personalities, and think the foundation shaken if any fault is shown in their record. But how is the truth hurt by their falling from it? The law of gravity is not hurt by every accident, though our leg be broken. No more is the law of justice by our departure from it. A. J. Froude

[Space Merchant]

Example 3 [1925] - Now for example 3, it is the same reused, washed and rinsed rhetoric about Pastor Rutherford's Millions will Never Die... All that can be said is there is a lot of obscurity that would make The Guardian and CNN blush, so much so, the focus in that was on full display on both sides, even those in the middle. It gets even more convoluted when people confuse the End of the World (God's Day, Armageddon) with The Second Coming of Christ, not only this is done, but the other faction of Christianity, The Mainstreamers, tends to weaponize whatever obscurity they can find against various opponents, in this case, JWs. Moreover, in challenge by some, they conclude to an answer that is not favorable to opponents to the faith community in question, even if minor.

Conclusion

[Archives]: - Archives are not something mystery or hidden, for all domains/infrastructure pertaining to government and other institutions have them somewhere hence public domain. Although some domains have logins and the like to access information, i.e. A Community College Registrar Internat Logon vs. A Community College Registrar Internat Logon for Admins and Staff, anything that is older/past information are archived. Even to Students, as with those who are going to College, University/Trade School, and or those in the Workforce, are aware of such things, to the religious, this isn't something of a big secret or a mystery. Even various media and forums have them, in this case, Invision Community, in which Archiving is possible. The latter would be correct if the big secret was legitimate unknown to all people, all JWs, and all institutions, but Archives related to the Watchtower, Jehovah's Witness and or their predecessor, The bible Students, are on public domain, i.e. publications and documentation from the late 1800s, early 1900s can be found. The co-latter also isn't aware that Libraries and Archives are different.

• Libraries collect and provide access to published materials in order to disseminate information, promote scholarship, and provide entertainment.
• An archive is a collection of records created or received by a person, family, or organization, and preserved because of their continuing value.

Example 1 [Racism] - The latter is totally oblivious to history, and adheres to bias opinion (no different from a BHI/BLMer), so much so, agrees with interjecting today's modern society view of Racism to apply it to how things were in the past, being totally unaware of the events leading to The Segregation Era and what transpired in those days. Since the focus was on Bible Students, the claim by the video presented stated the following

ExJW - [segregated congregations you had coloured congregations and white congregations where does that sound familiar? That is racism]

This former JW slyly didn't mentioned the events of that Era, namely Jim Crow Laws, and events that led up to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Not to mention The notation of Segregation was not done due to Racism. Moreover, in those days, some Bible Students in fact did risk their lives in a dangerous environment to see those for their faith community, even if the skin color of theirs are not the same, as is, knowing any Jim Crow Mentality folk would punishment them if caught, especially if the person was black. This correlates with the events of 1921. And for the sake of argument, if Bible Students were indeed Racism, as pointed out, they would have expired as a community long ago, Jehovah's Witnesses would most likely not have existed, even today, no Rutherford, no JW Churches, etc. for the downfall would be due to a broken community that is no longer unified. It can also be concluded that the latter and co-latter lack any knowledge of history, for one of them attempted to interject doctrine, as is with stating to know about an Era only to back peddle.

Example 2 [Holocaust] - The latter's video attested to the idea that the sole focus of the Holocaust was Jehovah's Witnesses and them alone, as shown already from a time stamp from the video which reads:

ExJW -[jehovah's witnesses in other words this article and the examples contained within it is meant to convey or meant to promote the idea that the nazi parties concentration camps were really just for jehovah's witnesses and that the jews and homosexuals got caught up in the mix but the real target we are the real ones under the microscope here that would be joyous witnesses that's quite something to really repaint history....]

This is false, as we already know, Christians and onlookers should be cautious of a false witness, as is, with those defending it. Adolf Hitler adhered to Antisemitism (although origin is unknown) - [hostility to or prejudice against Jewish people], for it played a major role in his thinking and in the Nazi ideology. Read here what inspired Hitler's hatred of Jews and what life events played a role in its development. Fast Forward to the events of the Nazi Regime. The Nazi started Jews, for Jews were hated in the EU and suffered discrimination and the like. When they started to attack, beat up, shame and rape Jews, this led them to capture also Homosexuals, the Sinti and the Roma (or Gypsies), as with Jehovah's Witnesses. The Nazis tormented the Jehovah's Witnesses differently compared to the other captives and the goal was to get them to renounce their faith, even prior, the Reich did a number of any homes and buildings they had. It is also noted of them being neutral and their view forwards War. The Concentration Camps were not specially design for and only JWs, others were there too, therefore, the YouTuber not only gave a bias opinion with a false claim, he seems to have adopted the Leftist mentality when using a 1930s source (which can be found in Archives) by simply looking at the title and not knowing anything of what the document or publication says.

As anyone can see with both the latter and co-latter, defiance to the end for falsehood, and when questioned about the Holocaust, their decision was to portray themselves as children of God while dining at the table of demons - hence the usage of 1 John 4:1 when it comes to testing the spirit, was used. In addition to that, the defense of falsehood can also lean such ones to pertain to Holocaust distortion, a level of denial of even the facts, somewhat of a representation of those attempting to re-write history with misinformation to fuel their Agenda.

That being said, God is close to anyone bearing a true witness, as with those who can discern, as is be reasonable. What we see here is an example of hatred, in which people who are refuted in a challenge cannot see their own folly. They can't even adhere to anything historical. Then they slip into an appeal to motive, reasons why this quotes reflects that

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers.

 

Biblically speaking, going forward, such people need to be tested in the spirit, to see if it true or tainted. As is the actions of such ones vs. the truth itself.

Psalm 109:2-4
2 For wicked and deceitful mouths are opened against me,
    speaking against me with lying tongues.
3 They encircle me with words of hate,
    and attack me without cause.
4 In return for my love they accuse me,
    but I give myself to prayer.

That being said, facts are everything, they do not obscure truth because such can be verified, even in the face of claims and absurdities of which cannot be proven true/false. As predicted any comment going forward the same ill justifiable cause will continue, as is with the lack of critical thinking which has been replaced with deterioration of the mind, mental depravity.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

about Pastor Rutherford's Millions will Never Die...

I’m not petty, but I’m surprised that such an informed and knowledgeable debater like you mistakenly names historical figures from the WT.
Russell was called Pastor, and Rutherford was called Judge.

[Space Merchant]

58 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I’m not petty, but I’m surprised that such an informed and knowledgeable debater like you mistakenly names historical figures from the WT.
Russell was called Pastor, and Rutherford was called Judge.

You'd focus on that, which was predictable, then your denial of Holocaust history. And now you made an even bigger fool of yourself willfully, no one did it for you but yourself. As predicted to because in the facts of facts slander becomes the tool of the loser, as is, their ignorance.

To correct you

Pastor - A minister in charge of a Christian church or congregation. [Noun]; be pastor of (a church or congregation). [Verb]

Pastor Russell died in 1916 and was succeeded by Pastor Rutherford, a former Judge, to lead the Bible Students who evidently became Jehovah's Witnesses.

Pastor Rutherford (Joseph Franklin "Judge" Rutherford) was the second president (or leader) of the incorporated Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. He played a primary role in the organization and doctrinal development of Jehovah's Witnesses who came out of the Bible Student Movement (One of the movements that emerged from the Great Awakening/Revival). He only became one of Bible Students because he developed an interest in the teachings of Watch Tower Society's Pastor Russell, which led to his joining the Bible Student movement, and he was baptized in 1906. He also had a hand, using his Law Experience, for legal counsel.

The reason he was called A Judge was because he began his career in law, working as a Court Stenographer, as is with experience as a trial lawyer and prosecutor, in addition to that, he became a special judge in the 14th Judicial District of Missouri at some time after 1895.

Therefore, Pastor and Judge are two different things, the fact you attest to that ridiculous assertion proves you are not as wise as your friend, let alone the one you adhere to who had committed ill acts.

Because your ignorance is in full display and you deem to not know the difference, I provided a source for you, one of which even children can understand, I change the font to your favorite color - https://kids.kiddle.co/Joseph_Franklin_Rutherford

That being said, yet again, you exposed yourself to not be a denier of Holocaust history or the Era of the early 1900s, but in this case, this notation as well. To add salt to injury whenever this Pastor is mentioned in debates here, you attest to this person being among the leaders of the JWs outside of the GB, or Russell, who, was not a JW at the time, but a Bible Student.

A former Jehovah's Witness, yet, the mindset of a broken man. With a spirit as messed up as what you have due to your own misguidance, it would be wise on your part to correct yourself, falsehood is indefensible, as is those who cower behind it who arbor a twisted Agenda.

That said, if you want to be serious, you have to explain as to why your version of history as is with @Witness and the former JW is vastly different from the accounts known.

[Srecko Sostar]

19 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

To correct you

Pastor - A minister in charge of a Christian church or congregation. [Noun]; be pastor of (a church or congregation). [Verb]

Let us hear how official publication explained why Russell has been called "pastor".

WTJWorg source link is: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1996043?q=pastor+russell&p=par

Jesus gave the congregation “gifts in men,” some as “pastors,” or shepherds, who treat Jehovah’s flock in a tender way. (Ephesians 4:8, 11; King James Version) One of these men was Charles T. Russell, the Watch Tower Society’s first president. He was called Pastor Russell because of his loving and compassionate activities in shepherding the flock under the Chief Shepherd, Jesus Christ. Today, Christian elders are appointed by the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and care is exercised not to use such terms as “pastor,” “elder,” or “teacher” as titles. (Matthew 23:8-12) Yet, present-day elders do a pastoral, or shepherding, work for the benefit of the sheep of Jehovah’s pasturage.

JW members do not use the term "pastor" for their elders, regardless of the fact that you gave an explanation of the term pastor, so it would follow that it is the same type of activity. Although today's JWs consider Russell a forerunner of the representatives of the true God and also the founder of their religion and organization, they have renounced the use of the term as "pastor" and the like because such terms are in use by other religious communities that, JWs claim, are part of "false religion".
The term “Pastor Russell” was the exclusive name for only one and unique man of the time and as far as I read WTJWorg publications BS and JW did not use the word pastor for anyone other than Russell. Thus, it is a matter of the historical context of the use of the name, not the meaning of the noun pastor.

JW refuse to call their elders pastors. Whenever the word “pastor” appears in a WTJWorg text the publication refers to priests of “false religions”. The only use of the term “Pastor” in a positive context is only in the historical figure of CT Russell. Sure, that attitude of JW members is ridiculous, but it’s because they want it that way.