BETHEL'S BIG SECRET

[Srecko Sostar]

21 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

If former Jehovah's Witnesses misinterpret more recent literature, what makes you think they will have a better understanding when the literature was more difficult to understand? Present members have a hard time connecting the dots. A reason why the Watchtower has simplified many areas for the new generation.

Are you saying that it is difficult for today's JWs to understand old publications, because those previous ones were incomprehensibly written, because they have an outdated way of expression, or simply because many things are nonsense?
What has been simplified in today’s JW literature to such an extent that it can be read by people with reduced intellectual abilities? Is that what you mean? What is more understandable to today's JW? That one generation lasts 70-80 years or that one generation can overlap as needed and much longer?

[Space Merchant]

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

As @Witness has already told you, the video does not analyze details on racism issue,

The video pointed out in regards to Example 1, Bible Students were deemed Racist, the same video that @Witness said was factual. Not only you are trying to save face yet again, you are attempting to use a flail argument in the process. What you say here is contradicting your last few statements, as is, the recent one, which disqualifies the claim proving the video to be false on account to Example 1. You may want to pay attention to what she said before and after the Facts were presented, going as far as to claim this was a JW issue only - evidence pages 3, 4 and 5 in which Witness is seen heavily defending the video and using ill remarks in the process.

The video did speak on the issue of Racism in Example 1, the EXJW was quoted with a Transcript - word for word.

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

but confirms the existence of several levels of access to JW library or inability to access WT organization publications by JW members or other people on the official JW library website.

This is anything new. The Watchtower is on a domain that is Intranet based. This goes for all institutions. Why continue to beat a dead horse when you can easily be refuted again here? Anyways, the refutations is on the early pages.

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

He gave example on his claim. 

He attested that this was unknown information, which it is not.

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

He could also use examples that show what changed attitudes on medical issues WT has offered through publications at various periods of time.

He could also. Let's note that.

If that was the case, why did he like about the 1930 article which was archived to push the notation of Racism as is the events of Germany?

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The moderator's indication of racism within WTJWorg is not a lie

So can you give evidence that Bible Students in the 1921 were Racist? Remember, this was the Segregation Era whereas most religious folks, even bible Students were not fans of Jim Crow.

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

as similar warnings about the harmfulness of the phenomenon can be read and heard regularly on WTJWorg's "spiritual food" programs, which also address racism.

You seem to be confusing the past with present day, stay on focus. It is noted that JWs abhor Racism, ironically this was what the EXJW said, but not of Bible Students of which he claims they were Racist.

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Not every JW congregation may have that problem, but it is still present.

We're not talking about today, again you are equating the past and the present. Extremely 2 different notations. That being said, how are you so sure? Because nearly every response in other threads puts you in a contradiction.

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg is not exempt from sin and injustice.

So can you show evidence of the Jehovah's Witnesses of today supported Jim Crow?

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Your persistent denial that such a thing is possible within WTJWorg only confirms your inability to accept the reality of today and the fact that WTJWorg has the same kinds of problems as any other religion.

Silly assertion - as always and usual when you can't defend what you attest as a truth. There is no denial, there is facts. No one is going to believe you and @Witness regarding the events mentioned for Example 1 and 2, even 3 of which this EXJW attested to with his own opinion.

Continue to make yourself look as you do now, you are only presenting a case of the mental state of the common EXJW who lacks not only knowing their former faith, but History pertaining to the US and the EU.

Again, both of you are in a position that is an indefensible one the second you made claim to the video being Factual, even in Witness' case which she attested to this several times, therefore, you are sinking on her ship, so to speak.

 

[Space Merchant]

@Srecko Sostar The fact that you want to be so bold in this indefensible position to defend misleading information as @Witness did. Can you give one example of Racism committed by the Bible Students against blacks between the years 1920-1930?

The transcript from the EXJW Word for word is highlighted in green. OF which he equated the past with president notations.

 

ExJW from the video - [Example 1... egregated congregations you had coloured congregations and white congregations where does that sound familiar? That is racism]

You defend the video so much, but can you defend his words?

The fact I zero you with this one is due to what you said in order to defend someone tainted. This way everyone, from JWs, EXJWs, and other onlookers can see your lack knowledge of said history on full display vs the facts.

It is already revealed you accept misleading information, but this time via zeroing people can see it for themselves.

For the onlookers/guests, this is already quite a sight since this is Black History Month for them, so much so to see someone who is a former JW not being aware of facts pertaining to history, and what else than an important marker in time - Tulsa.

Spotlight is on you, Srecko.

[Dmitar]

7 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Are you saying that it is difficult for today's JWs to understand old publications, because those previous ones were incomprehensibly written, because they have an outdated way of expression, or simply because many things are nonsense?

If you haven't learned the lingo from the Bible Student Era, and almost everyone here misinterprets it, what makes you think, they will get what past literature articulated? Is it nonsense, NO! What was written in the past was for that time period. Things change, and so should the understanding for the next generation. In this case, much simpler way of understanding. Modern Society doesn't retain as much info because of electronics as past generation did without gadgets.

13 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What has been simplified in today’s JW literature to such an extent that it can be read by people with reduced intellectual abilities? Is that what you mean? What is more understandable to today's JW? That one generation lasts 70-80 years or that one generation can overlap as needed and much longer?

How much mental retention do you possess? If you didn't have access to electronics, and your mindset wasn't really on reading, how would you process other people's thoughts about scripture?

[Srecko Sostar]

8 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

He attested that this was unknown information, which it is not.

Of course the information is no longer unknown. Why? Because he quoted it in a video, and made known to all YouTube viewers, from an outdated WT publication that JW no longer uses today, for several reasons. One reason is that it is not on the JW Library or Internet WT Library. And you keep claiming it is? 

[Dmitar]

Let's start to bring this Bible Student perspective down to its proper place. While the use of the words "racist" can be found in general everywhere, the proper etiquette for the Bible Students of that time was to use the word "ostracism" or "social ostracism,"

"Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach." (Heb. 13:13) T62 Outside the camp signifies ostracism, rejection of men, dishonor. R4385:1
As living next door to a worldly neighbor and bearing the reproach of those, living as a consecrated priest of the Lord. Q688:T We are in harmony with this burning outside the camp. The New Creature says, "Let the flesh burn." We suffer in this burning, but do so willingly. CR487:1

In time of temptation -- As soon as they find out that the truth is not popular, they foresee persecution or social ostracism; then their ardor cools and their interest in the harvest message wanes and gradually dies out. R5736:2

{See 3B in the back.}
"The burning represented the gradual destruction of the flesh. Outside the camp signified ostracism, rejection of men,
dishonor. The Apostle says that our Lord thus suffered outside the camp and that we should arm ourselves with the same mind, with the full intention of suffering with Him as His members. St. Paul emphasizes the fact in Heb. 13:11-13." R4385, col.1, top or Z'09-133, col.1, par.4.

So, let's get this tidbit back in order.

The testing of Christian unity and fellowship will be along the lines of love-love for the brethren. Christian unity is not simply to hold together in loving union those of one persuasion, one belief in one place; not simply to hold together those who see eye to eye in all the minutia of doctrine and of particular kinds and methods of service; not to hold together simply those who are cooperating with one human and necessarily imperfect channel for service; and not necessarily to make use of those gifts (teachers) who hold to one particular human channel. This fellowship can never be withdrawn from any of those who recognize and experience the blessings associated with the seven basic principles laid down by St. Paul. Those who are in fellowship with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ, are our brethren, ours to love; ours to serve and ours to lay down our lives for. The fear of what man may do, or what of misunderstanding and ostracism may come because of obeying this law of love, this new commandment, will not deter the faithful from serving or laying down their lives for the brethren. Bible Students Association 1919

____________

II. WHO ENDEAVOUR TO SILENCE OPPONENTS BY FORCE. The Jews could not confute Paul by argument, and therefore they stirred up a riot against him. This is still a popular method, though the force employed may be the more refined method of ostracism . A brickbat is not the only method that will break a head.

(from The Biblical Illustrator Copyright © 2002, 2003, 2006)

______________

*** w54 2/15 p. 104 Threats Fail to Shake Converted Sikh ***
Threats Fail to Shake Converted Sikh
CHRISTIAN missionaries in Moslem lands find many men of good will who would gladly accept Christianity with its worship of the true God, Jehovah, except for the fear of persecution of one kind or another, ranging from social ostracism to threat of death. However, the Sikh who accepts true Christianity has even more determined opposition and pressure brought upon him. In view of this fact the following experience of a Sikh’s being converted will be of particular interest
 

*** w10 12/1 p. 20 Why Did They Reject the Messiah? ***
Even under such difficult circumstances, Christianity grew rapidly in the years after Jesus’ death. Although thousands became believers, however, Christians remained a minority in first-century Palestine. Publicly identifying oneself as a follower of Christ meant risking ostracism and even violence.
 

[Srecko Sostar]

25 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Can you give one example of Racism committed by the Bible Students against blacks between the years 1920-1930?

Can you guarantee that racism and segregation did not happen?

[Space Merchant]

7 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Of course the information is no longer unknown. Why? Because he quoted it in a video, and made known to all YouTube viewers, from an outdated WT publication that JW no longer uses today, for several reasons. One reason is that it is not on the JW Library or Internet WT Library. And you keep claiming it is? 

We already talked about Archives, therefore, you have no case. What you are showing me is a INTRANET outside of the domain, an INFUSTRAURE used by JWs on a public form.

 

As someone who deals in the Network field, you have no case in that regard. 

[Space Merchant]

7 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Can you guarantee that racism and segregation did not happen?

You were given the question, to answer a question with a question is a show of avoiding your own conveyed response.

Again - Can you give one example of Racism committed by the Bible Students against blacks between the years 1920-1930?

Not too long ago you equated the past with present day notations to defend the video. You are also purposely AVOIDING the quote from the EXJW - both you and @Witness deem the video as factual but choose to ignore what he said from that transcript. Interesting.

That being said, the history of the events of 1921 is clear as with the Era, even in the eyes of those who adhere to Fundamentalism, likewise to Christendom in that Era, namely the events of the Great Awakening which is 100% Christian based. This is not the first time I talked about the Great Awakening...

 

[Srecko Sostar]

27 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

If you haven't learned the lingo from the Bible Student Era, and almost everyone here misinterprets it, what makes you think, they will get what past literature articulated? Is it nonsense, NO! What was written in the past was for that time period. Things change, and so should the understanding for the next generation. In this case, much simpler way of understanding. Modern Society doesn't retain as much info because of electronics as past generation did without gadgets.

What was written in the past WTJWorg called as "new light" aka "The Truth". However, every “new light” that subsequently appeared on the pages of WTJWorg publications unequivocally declared the “old truths” to be lies.

27 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

How much mental retention do you possess? If you didn't have access to electronics, and your mindset wasn't really on reading, how would you process other people's thoughts about scripture?

The thoughts of other people, like GB people, are expressed in the text of all published publications. And we all see where it's going and where all those magazines and books are now. Discarded and rejected without any value for JW today.

[Srecko Sostar]

8 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

You were given the question, to answer a question with a question is a show of avoiding your own conveyed response.

No, that's just one way of debating.

[Srecko Sostar]

25 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Let's start to bring this Bible Student perspective down to its proper place. While the use of the words "racist" can be found in general everywhere, the proper etiquette for the Bible Students of that time was to use the word "ostracism" or "social ostracism,"

If you want, that expression is also good to use. Whatever we want to express, the reality of that time speaks to the positive and negative things about the WT.

Now we just miss our colleague SM and his explanation. Which will appear very soon.