Bible Prophecy and 2034. Will you gain spiritual discernment to become a Survivor of the Last Days?

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, BroRando said:

Nisan 16, 33 CE - 3rd Day - Saturday at Sundown from 7:00 pm to Sunday at Sundown to 7:00 pm  Jesus was resurrected at dawn by 7:00 am. That's 12 hours.

The Bible does not say that Jesus was resurrected at dawn. It says that the women came to the tomb just before or just after dawn, while it was still dark, and found that the stone had already been rolled away. So the resurrection could have taken place at any time during that night. So instead of 12 hours by 7am it could have been as few as 1 or 2 hours, or perhaps 10pm that night, or midnight, or 2am or 4am or 5am. All we know for sure is that it happened BEFORE dawn not "AT dawn" as you claim.

Also, Nisan 16 can be as early in the year as March 22, and as late as April 23. So sunrise/dawn can be as early as 6:04am on April 23 or as late as 6:55am on March 22. Anywhere within In any time zone in the world, that's nearly a full hour's difference. In other words, even if we knew for sure that the women had actually just got there at the time of the resurrection, you would still be guessing if you claim that dawn was at 7:00am when it could have been at 6:00am.

Personally, I think the Bible writers are implying that it was close to dawn, but perhaps at a time during the night when guards would have potentially been sleeping. Later Christian tradition has the guards waking up their centurion and others to tell them the "bad" news, which doesn't mean much on its own, except that it shows no evidence of a 40-hour tradition here or in any early commentary. This, in spite of the fact, that there was a 40-day tradition about the temptation and the ascension. Surely if a 40 hour tradition was going to be of any import to "spiritual discernment" then the Bible would have given specific evidence that it was 40 hours, and not somewhere between about a 29-hour minimum and a 39-hour maximum.

With respect to this time period, the only tradition that we know that the early Christians held onto was the idea that it was like the sign of Jonah which was parts of 3 days and 3 nights. Unfortunately you can't translate 3 days and 3 nights to less than about 60 hours or more than about 72 hours. This is probably why some early Christian traditions start Jesus' death on Wednesday or Thursday (Nisan 13), and some say this is also a potential interpretation reflected in the Bible accounts.

[BroRando]

36 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The Bible does not say that Jesus was resurrected at dawn. It says that the women came to the tomb just before or just after dawn, while it was still dark, and found that the stone had already been rolled away. So the resurrection could have taken place at any time during that night. So instead of 12 hours by 7am it could have been as few as 1 or 2 hours, or perhaps 10pm that night, or midnight, or 2am or 4am or 5am. All we know for sure is that it happened BEFORE dawn not "AT dawn" as you claim.

 ²  He will revive us after two days. On the third day he will raise us up,And we will live before him. ³  We will know, we will earnestly seek to know Jehovah. His going out is as certain as the dawn; He will come to us like a pouring rain,Like a spring rain that saturates the earth.”

So when the Sabbatha was over, Mary Magʹda·lene, Maryb the mother of James, and Sa·loʹme bought spices in order to come and apply them to his body.c ²  And very early on the first day of the week when the sun had risen, they came to the tomb.

 

²²  Moreover, some women from among us also astonished us, for they went early to the tomb*o ²³  and when they did not find his body, they came saying that they had also seen a supernatural sight of angels, who said he is alive.

[Chioke Lin]

4 hours ago, BroRando said:

The 40 pattern represents 'a time' of cleansing, refinement, testing, and purification. It can be rendered in hours, days, or years.  Also... when the 40 pattern is applied three times, it is significantly heightened in importance.  Jesus entered this pattern three times during his time upon the earth.

Isn't the purification, a ritual under the law of Moses for atonement?

[Chioke Lin]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

With respect to this time period, the only tradition that we know that the early Christians held onto was the idea that it was like the sign of Jonah which was parts of 3 days and 3 nights.

Doesn't Matthew also state the same? Shouldn't the betrayal and arrest of Jesus be the start of his judgment? Which would be included in those 3 days and nights. The start of the Jewish week which is Sunday when Mary went to check on the tomb, Jesus was no longer there. So, it's true, no one saw Jesus resurrection. Does the beginning of the week place an important time to the 3 days and night, since the night on the third day would have been completed, before dawn.

I go back to my original question? Is the discussion referring to the 3 days and night, or the interment time of Christ. Aren't those two different or the same to fulfil the 3 days and night, according to the bible, not Christian tradition.

[JW Insider]

28 minutes ago, BroRando said:

²  He will revive us after two days. On the third day he will raise us up,And we will live before him. ³  We will know, we will earnestly seek to know Jehovah. His going out is as certain as the dawn; 

I think you helped to make my point. Thank you.

Jesus was clearly resurrected before dawn when the women arrived. Angels even told the women that Jesus had already been raised, according to the scriptures you quoted.

Since that has been cleared up, I think there is another important point to make that's related to your obsession with chronology. I'm reminded of it by how much importance you give to the word word "dawn" Hosea 6:3, but probably don't give half as much attention to the word "presence" in Hosea 6:2. Of course the word isn't translated that way in the NWT, but here's another translation:

2After two days He will revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, that we may live in His presence. 3So let us know—let us press on to know the LORD. As surely as the sun rises, He will appear; He will come to us like the rain, like the spring showers that water the earth.…

I do believe that Jesus' presence began when he came to earth, especially during his physical presence during his ministry. But the most important thing to all Christians since the "dawn" of his resurrection is the fact of his continued presence with us.

Matthew 18:20 (NLT) For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them.

*** nwtsty Matthew 28:20 *** (New World Translation)
And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

This should be the most important thing to us about the resurrection: not the exact timing but that Jesus is alive and is present with us right up until the "synteleia," or the conclusion.

So Jesus' presence began in 33 CE. And you can find some evidence for this even in Hosea 6:2. The Hebrew word there is פָּנָה   panim, the same word that the NWT translates as "presence" in many places:

(Deuteronomy 4:37) . . .in his presence by his great power. . .

(Deuteronomy 25:2) . . . in his presence.. . .

(Deuteronomy 31:11) . . .when all Israel appears before the presence of Jehovah . . .

(1 Samuel 21:6) . . .from Jehovah’s presence. . .

(1 Samuel 26:20) . . .from the presence of Jehovah. . .

etc. etc. etc. etc.

Of course, this is not the same "presence" as the final "parousia" which Matthew uses as a synonym for the highly visible "sign of the son of man."

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 6/17/2022 at 12:02 AM, Peter Carroll said:

satan like to use a wedge that his followers will keep hammering into any weak spot in a christian ,this wedge by the satanist pwft is so blunt that it hardly makes a dent anymore ,

 

 Um, kinda funny really. Mr Carroll calls me a satanist, but I'm the one that gets a warning from @The Librarian 

It would have been nice to know exactly what it was i was warned for, but never mind. Yeshua and His apostles suffered much worse for telling the truth. I can handle the warning and i could handle being removed too it that happened. 

But this action does show where the favouritism is.  

[Pudgy]

Anybody noticed how close “40” is to ….. “42”?

Think about it.

Just to be sure, I ran the numbers on my Hitchhiker’s Temporal Calculator, and it appears that “42” is indeed the correct answer.

 

[BroRando]

23 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

Isn't the purification, a ritual under the law of Moses for atonement?

Yes, it has to do with offerings and sacrifice for a temorary covering under the Mosaic Law. However, Jesus is pure and without sin. His death was the antonement or covering for sinful mankind to become clean. Yet, Jesus was tested to the full for our sake.

Therefore, he fulfilled the Law of Moses "and erased the handwritten document that consisted of decrees and was in opposition to us. He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake." (Colossians 2:14)

The Bible attaches great importance to the death of Jesus.

[JW Insider]

3 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

since the night on the third day would have been completed, before dawn.

No. Because the night on the third day would not have been completed before dawn of that second day.

If someone dies on Friday afternoon and they are buried that Friday night, then the night of the first day is completed on Saturday. The night of the second day is therefore begun on the next night, Saturday night, and completed on the dawn of that second day which is Sunday morning. The night of the third day, would have been completed, therefore on Monday morning.

This is true even in our current conception of when a day begins, but would have been even clearer with the Jewish conception of when a day began, because their day started with nightfall.

33 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

Shouldn't the betrayal and arrest of Jesus be the start of his judgment? Which would be included in those 3 days and nights.

You can begin the start of his judgment then if you wish, but the sign of Jonah was that he was in "Sheol" for three days and three nights. Christians saw no need to take this to any kind of literal count of hours. The very fact that it could apply when Jesus may have been in Sheol for only two nights is good evidence that there was no good reason to try to count the exact hours to make something spiritually significant out of them.

[Pudgy]

…. THAT’S exactly why I use my Hitchhiker’s  Temporal Calculator to verify all such things!!

”The Secrets to Life, the Universe, and Everything, in the palm of your hand , with the SRR-41CX-COGO/HTC HITCHHIKER’S TEMPORAL CALCULATOR”

…. batteries not included.

[Chioke Lin]

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

If someone dies on Friday afternoon and they are buried that Friday night, then the night of the first day is completed on Saturday. The night of the second day is therefore begun on the next night, Saturday night, and completed on the dawn of that second day which is Sunday morning. The night of the third day, would have been completed, therefore on Monday morning.

Would this only apply if you started with a Christian tradition rather than what the bible indicates?

I see you are using the sunrise, sunset concept. How about dusk to dawn, which is a shorter time period.

If Jesus judgment started on midnight Thursday, then midnight Saturday, Sunday would complete the 3 day and night cycle. Sunday after dawn which is the start of the week, as you mention, like Monday for us and Sunday for the Jews.

 

[Chioke Lin]

I'm enjoying everyone's comments. With what I see, there is no right or wrong answer with this discussion of the 3 days and 3 nights with that of Christ internment time.