Searching for the earliest mention of the Israelite god, "Yahweh" (Tetragrammaton) aka "Jehovah" in Modern English

[Chioke Lin]

13 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

it is good to see this thread  isnt about which version of jehovahs name is used ,as its simply about what is out there in the rocks as that is the oldest form of writing ,along with cuniform which is limited in this respect

The video just shows another instance where God's name has been found. In Egypt, it's not the first time. This is just the latest. If archeologist continue to look, they will find plenty of evidence. Some will be open to the public, some will not, due to human intervention of not wanting God's name to be truly known.

https://www.breakingchristiannews.com/articles/display_art.html?ID=7493#:~:text=The oldest historical mention of ancient Israel occurs,people called the Shasu. (Photo%3A the Merneptah stele)

This "Stele of YHWH in Egypt" is, from referencing, The Prophecies of Isaiah 18–20 concerning Egypt and Kush. Another proof of the "oldest historical mention" of the "tetragrammaton" in Egypt.

The Vatican has had in its position a reference of Yahwe from about 490CE that they just released about 2 years ago.

What matters, God does have a personal name, and it should be used. That thing about God's name being forbidden is a man-made thing.

Keep in mind that "Nehemia Gordon" found a specific instance of God's name with the (Y) Yahovah. 

[Arauna]

15 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

since anyone after the flood would be considered nomads.

Agreed, right after the flood  everyone were nomads but later as clans grew in groups they would later become nations with city-states - such as the Edomites (offspring from Esau), Amonites and Moabites (offspring of Lot) etc. Later on there were still nomads roaming about and they lived in areas which were not occupied by cities. In Canaan the different Canaanite nations occupied specific areas. Joseph was picked up and sold in Egypt by a group of Ishmaelites /Midianites who were offspring from Abraham.  By this time there were many caravans which were travelling merchants who sold goods and travelled around different trade routs. 

About 800 years after the flood - Egypt was a massive country comprising different tribes (at least 20 Nomes - states with governors - maybe even different dialects) and even  Ethiopia was already a nation.  It was in this time that Jehovah led Israel out of Egypt in the exodus.  800 years after flood is a loooong time.  Nations had formed and wars were everywhere. 

The archeologist mentioned the inscription which referred to NOMADS of Jahweh which the Pharoah had conquered.  He speculated that it was the Israelites AFTER  the exodus......as the exodus took place +- 1512 BCE.....  this  speculation is not based on the reality.  Israel Never went back to Egypt after the exodus (but a break away group before the exodus could have become nomads).  If there were a group of nomads who had Jehwah or jahweh as their god they could also have been another nomadic group which split off from other peoples after the flood and remained in pockets and travelled around.  He says this because the inscription is dated to the 15th century but then he uses the wrong Egyptian king! which sat on the throne much later! 

Today there are pockets of Africans in North East Africa who have Jewish customs. Apart from Ethiopia there are other tribes. They must have become proselytes at one time or had contact with Israel and or split off from other tribes who had these customs. The traditions were carried over from generation to generation.

This kind of thing makes for very interesting history.

 

23 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

but Arauna seems to think these early hieroglyphs are not being represented properly.  

I do not know if you deliberately misunderstand me.  No - I am not saying the hieroglyphs are not 1500 years BCE or that the Name is wrong.  

Let me put it this way - I do not expect a gynecologists to know everything about heart of eye problems. I do not expect a bone doctor to know a gynies business. 

Similarly and archeologist usually specializes in one field.... .  I do not know the field of this archeologist but I am thankful he cares about the bible and Jehovah's name.

Unfortunately he did sloppy biblical history about the inscription.  We are supposed to be the bible students are we not? And therefore I say he was wrong to say it was inscribed by the Israelites AFTER the exodus.  It does not make sense.   

[Chioke Lin]

16 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Agreed, right after the flood  everyone were nomads but later as clans grew in groups they would later become nations with city-states - such as the Edomites (offspring from Esau), Amonites and Moabites (offspring of Lot) etc. Later on there were still nomads roaming about and they lived in areas which were not occupied by cities. In Canaan the different Canaanite nations occupied specific areas.

There are places even in today's world where there are nomadic tribes. Just saying. It shouldn't be a point of contention. I was referring to it in general, not specific. The specific thing I was referencing was, the territory of Egypt that might have included the Sudan region in ancient times. But, thanks.

[Arauna]

16 hours ago, The Librarian said:

wandering around the world following a tent (tabernacle) "nomads".

Yes - he would - agreed.  The problem is that Sudan or Aswan lies in upper Egypt -  There is no way that the Israelites travelled around there AFTER the exodus as he implied.  

[Chioke Lin]

6 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Similarly and archeologist usually specializes in one field.... .  I do not know the field of this archeologist but I am thankful he cares about the bible and Jehovah's name.

Ironically, the person in the video wasn't an archeologist. He got his master’s degree in archeology after studying in Israel for 10 years. Before that, he just supported a few digs. He didn't know anything about how to study archeology.

[Arauna]

I saw a historical discrepancy and said what I thought.  Sorry to get you all in a tizzy about this..... I thought you would just find it interesting that there is a discrepancy - actually 2.

I liked the link @Chioke Lin gave us: 

"Among ancient Egyptian designations for types of foreign peoples in the New Kingdom Period (1550–1070 BC), the term Shasu occurs fairly frequently. It is generally accepted that the term Shasu means nomads or Bedouin people, referring primarily to the nomadic peoples of Syria-Palestine. There are two hieroglyphic references in New Kingdom Period texts to an area called "the land of the Shasu of Yahweh." Except for the Old Testament, these are the oldest references found in any ancient texts to the God Yahweh.It is very likely that the Egyptians of the New Kingdom Period classified all of the ancient Edomites, Ammonites, Moabites, Amalekites, Midianites, Kenites, Hapiru, and Israelites as Shasu.

There is even a reference dating to ca. 1250 BC in Papyrus Anastasi I to a group of giant Shasu living in Canaan who may be identified with the giants encountered by the Israelites at the time of the Exodus. Clearly the Egyptians knew about Yahweh as can be seen in the Soleb and Amarah-West topographical lists, but they did not worship him, and they apparently did not want to worship him."

This indicates as the librarian said : that the inscription could have been of a later date. Since Amenhotep did not rule in 1500BCE era. 

[Arauna]

16 hours ago, The Librarian said:

but there is also the possibility it comes from much later. Whereas the Temple in Ancient Egypt is pretty rock solid

Agreed..... 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Chioke Lin said:

specific thing I was referencing was, the territory of Egypt that might have included the Sudan region in ancient times.

Yes it did  in later times when upper and lower Egypt were united.

[The Librarian]

1 hour ago, Chioke Lin said:

Ironically, the person in the video wasn't an archeologist. He got his master’s degree in archeology after studying in Israel for 10 years. Before that, he just supported a few digs. He didn't know anything about how to study archeology.

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

[Chioke Lin]

51 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

This is true. That's why I stick with the classics. They knew better how to deal with understanding.

In the first place, the known linguistic facts in the case need to be listed and dated. The first of these is that the oldest authenticated form of the divine name is the tetragrammaton itself as it occurs in line 18 of the Moabite Stone of the ninth century B.c. Cowley's attempt to deny this2 since it was against his own theory proves too much. His argument would eliminate the name of Israel's God from the stone, but it should naturally appear somewhere in relation to Chemosh, and line 18 is a most fitting point for that to happen. Second, his own etymology posits one unknown quantity to explain another, which leaves the tetragrammaton as decidedly the easiest alternative, with the result that this form of the name emerges with a double emphasis as the oldest-known example of it.

It appears, in 1926, Leroy Waterman would have agreed with Nehemia Gordon. The above goes toward "hieroglyphics and cuneiform" "Aramaic and Hebrew script" not people. That's been my idealistic view all along.

[Chioke Lin]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

saw a historical discrepancy and said what I thought.  Sorry to get you all in a tizzy about this..... I thought you would just find it interesting that there is a discrepancy - actually 2.

Are you referring to the video? I can see many discrepancies with it. If you mean, me posting other people's published works, I will direct you to them. The video presenter for one hand no hieroglyphic experience. He mentioned something similar on another video. He was shown, how that badly deteriorated column read. 

I have the video, but, it appears, it takes forever to download. Either way, I didn't find myself in a tizzy. Let's keep the remarks friendly.

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, The Librarian said:

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Uh oh,