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[Pudgy]

It is my considered opinion that people have the right before God to commit suicide. There are many examples in the Bible of those who did commit suicide without any disparagement at all.
Sometimes it’s necessary, other times it’s a really really stupid idea, But that’s another story.

Sometimes it’s an idea and action born of loneliness, desperation or necessity, as in the case of the Judge Sampson.

I often lament that when “my time comes“, there will be no one to show me the same kindness as I showed my dog Cubby, when she was dying of cancer.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

If the pair was working together to harm Witnesses at the Kingdom hall, like Bonnie and Clyde, they would have died like Bonnie and Clyde, not murder-suicide.

It’s when we read that the congregation all suddenly ducked down in the toll booth that I’ll know someone’s been holding out on me.

5 hours ago, Anna said:

What was he trying to say is what I would like to know.

When a guy shoots his wife to death, I’m beyond wondering what he was trying to say. Had it been only himself, maybe.

But even then, not especially so. Suicides are endemic today. Some spill over into the congregation, many members of whom were like the fellow Jesus refered to, ‘those who know they are sick and need a physician.’ He means spiritually sick, of course, but there is an overlap between mental illness and spiritual sickness.

Do I have to know the details of a suicide? No more than I have to know the details of someone smitten with cancer. Will I hear either out if they come my way? Yes. Do I feel I must seek them out? No.

These days in the overall world it’s common to hear that people ‘died of depression.’ Always it is a tragedy, but there is no particular ‘shame’ in it anymore, nor is there usually a hunt to find ‘guilty’ parties, even when such parties exist. 

Do I feel deprived when it doesn’t make the website? Are you kidding me? Even the miscreants @Amidstherosesmentions are only there because they directly impact the line leading to the Messiah or the apostolic spread of the good news. If every troubled soul and experience was specifically written of in the Bible, the book would be heavy as the Titanic.

[xero]

28 minutes ago, Anna said:

 

Do you know why?

In both cases there were women involved. One was married recently and they were having issues that no one knew about. The pool incident was just a depressed young man who felt rejected by another sister (not her fault because he was frankly a bit odd).

Logically neither of these situations merited these responses, but having previous to becoming a JW known two other people who committed suicide, the idea that you can see it coming is incorrect. You never see it. Nothing ever rises to the level of "This behavior = a suicide". In fact both seemed cheerful the weeks previous, so after these I gave up the illusion that you can spot it. Sometimes it's just young men who have an impulse and then they act on it. I think that's more likely in these situations locally. When you get older you learn how to manage your emotions better. 

[Pudgy]

3 hours ago, Pudgy said:

If you research the Hebrew word for “murder” the analysis is quite extensive.

There is a world of difference between “justifiable homicide” and “murder”. 

Self defense is justifiable homicide.

If you prefer, you can always let the scumbag KILL YOU and/or your family and friends instead. 

It was common practice during Jesus’ time for all men to be armed, all the time …. Especially fishermen.

Or do you think that for 3-1/2 years Jesus did not notice that at least two Apostles and those fishermen Apostles carried knives and swords?

if someone is trying to kill you, and you defend yourself and kill him first, yes there is BLOODGUILT.

His blood is on his OWN HANDS, not yours.…

.….. much better than having YOUR blood all over the parking lot.

I strongly suspect when at least two Apostles were carrying their personal swords, they were not also carrying over sized spoons and forks.

 

 

The key is this:

when the avenger of blood learned that a relative had been killed, and he chased after him to kill him before he reached the City of Refuge, did the avenger of blood murder the person he killed?

Does God consider the avenger of blood himself blood guilty for exacting vengeance?

Does God consider the avenger of blood himself blood guilty for exacting vengeance?

The answer is obviously no.

This is the perfect example of how killing someone else can be justified, AND THAT JUSTIFIABLE HOMOCIDE IS NOT MURDER.

Another example is that God has allowed secular governments to wield a sword to exact punishment even to the point of death.

Is that murder?

In that case, again, it is justifiable homicide ….. and NOT MURDER.

With these clear-cut examples, which have no ambiguity whatsoever, how can any rational person say that justifiable self-defense and killing someone who is trying to kill you is wrong, and incurs bloodguilt?

Simple.

By ignoring reality for agenda driven thinking.

 

USE SOME COMMON SENSE!

[TrueTomHarley]

23 minutes ago, xero said:

In fact both seemed cheerful the weeks previous.

Often this happens when the person has reached a resolution to follow through, given their first opportunity. Their paralyzing dilemma resolved, they can give the appearance that all is completely well.

[Moise Racette]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Often this happens when the person has reached a resolution to follow through, given their first opportunity. Their paralyzing dilemma resolved, they can give the appearance that all is completely well.

This is why God can read minds. Therefore, whoever has a wrongful motive, God will know, even though an Elder might not. An Elder is not a psychologist, but a psychologist can be an Elder. How much time should be given to a troubled mind?

[Moise Racette]

There seems to be a poster confusing man's law with justifiable homicide, with the precious life God holds for his creation.

*** w61 2/15 p. 118 Euthanasia and God’s Law ***
Yes, God’s Word plainly tells that human life is sacred and that he who takes a human life must forfeit his own: “Anyone shedding a man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image he made man.” This law was repeatedly stated to the nation of Israel by Moses and others of the prophets, as well as to the followers of Jesus Christ by himself and his apostles.—Gen. 9:6; Ex. 20:13; Num. 35:30-32; Matt. 19:18; 1 John 3:15.
 

To God, it doesn't matter how humanity wants to justify the killing of another, What counts; how God will judge the individual that took said life, regardless of what man's law states. Man's law does NOT supersede God's law. 

[Pudgy]

Of COURSE God will judge.

if a Brother kills a shooter at the Kingdom Hall who has just murdered a Sister, and then grenades through the window, and is an active threat to the Congregation I suspect he may be chastised for littering.

If he saves YOUR life, Moise, will you still condemn him?

[TrueTomHarley]

 

Yeah, he works like that here, too, shifting commenters around, not cars.

[Moise Racette]

With the posting of @Pudgy. The poster claims to be superior to God. I personally wouldn't think of it. I do have faith in the resurrection in case someone decides to end my life. 

Once again, does it matter if God is the ultimate judge?

This post has now become an embarrassment, by laughing at other people's pain. What kind of JW's are these people here?

[Pudgy]

When you formulate questions that have no basis except false presumptions, they don’t really deserve an answer.

Like the old saying goes,”…. if you sing to a Pig  you ruin your voice, and irritate the pig.”

Putting lipstick on a pig does not help.

[Moise Racette]

I guess the poster is referring to himself. Spot on!