REVELATION - Jehovah's Witnesses

[Guest]

"Do not interpretations belong to God?"

 

"Then Joseph said to Pharʹaoh: “The dreams of Pharʹaoh are one and the same. The true God has told to Pharʹaoh what He will do.  The seven good cows are seven years. Likewise, the seven good ears of grain are seven years. The dreams are one and the same.  The seven skinny and bad cows that came up after them are seven years, and the seven empty ears of grain, scorched by the east wind, will prove to be seven years of famine.  This is just as I told to Pharʹaoh: The true God has caused Pharʹaoh to see what He will do."

 

"I have come to make you understand what will befall your people in the final part of the days, because it is a vision yet for the days to come.”

 

What is Revelation about?

 

Revelation is about what is to happen to God's people in the final part of the days.

 

Jesus is holding the 7 congregations, all the congregations. He gives a message to the angels of the congregations. Then he describes what is to happen to the congregations.

 

The 7 seals, the 7 trumpets, the 7 bowls of the anger of God are but one. They are repeated three times for emphasis, but they are one complete vision regarding what is to happen to God's people.

 

The congregations are described at the final part of the last days prior to Jesus' coming, prior to the onset of the great tribulation, prior to when Jesus receives the kingdom. This is in chapters 2 and 3.

 

Starting in chapter 4, the anointed are depicted as having conquered. Though they are not yet all resurrected to heaven, they have conquered and are sealed when pictured as the 24 elders. At that point, Jesus receives the kingdom. At that point, Jesus opens the 7 seals. The 7 seals are judgments. The 7 trumpets are likewise judgments, as are the 7 bowls. They are but one vision. Jesus has authority to carry out the judgments of God as soon as he begins ruling as king.

 

The ride of the four horsemen hasn't happened yet. It is to come as soon as Jesus receives the kingdom. There will be war, famine, food shortage, and death in a figurative way in God's organization. Jesus rides to clean the organization. 

 

The two witnesses prophesying in sackcloth for 3 1/2 years hasn't happened yet. It is to come as soon as Jesus receives the kingdom. There will be tribulation for 3 1/2 years after Satan is cast from heaven and we continue to preach under difficult conditions.

 

At different points in Revelation, we can see either into the heavens, or into the sanctuary where the ark is kept, and finally into the sanctuary where the presence of Jehovah fills the house with smoke until the vision is finished. 

 

The fact that Jesus is making these things known shows that the appointed time for him to come is near. Prepare your hearts and minds so that you may be acceptable to the Lord, for he is coming to judge his house.

 

"Happy is the one who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy and who observe the things written in it, for the appointed time is near!"

 

Praise Jehovah!

[Guest]

"By what authority do you do these things? And who gave you this authority?"

Paul was not a member of the governing body. And yet Jehovah assigned Paul to preach to the nations and write several books of the Bible. Jehovah gave him this authority. Jehovah can use the dust and stones to cry out. He is glorified in this. We are dust and lowly. It is not a requirement to go to the governing body for light. Jehovah God is the source of light. Paul did not go up to the governing body for years. He showed respect for their authority, but his respected Jehovah's authority and the authority of the Christ ahead of any committee of men on earth. Faithful anointed Christians are taught the meaning of the scriptures by Jesus through the helper, the holy spirit. Jesus told us to shine the light, to share what he shares with us.

 

"We have this sort of confidence toward God through the Christ. Not that we of ourselves are adequately qualified to consider that anything comes from us, but our being adequately qualified comes from God,  who has indeed adequately qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant..."

 

Timeline of Events 

 

Prior to onset of great tribulation:

Anointed are sealed (Rev.7)

Lawless one is revealed (2Th.2)

False shepherds in congregation cry "peace and security" (1Th.5:1-5)

 

Jesus receives the kingdom in heaven (Rev.5-6:1)

Satan is cast out of heaven (Rev.12:7-12)

 

Great tribulation begins like a thief for false shepherds but we are sons of light so it doesn't take us by surprise (1Th.5:4,5)

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Religious institutions are attacked for 5 months from the start of the great tribulation. The attack is cut short so that true worshippers will be saved. (Rev.9:5,10;Joel1:2-6;Mt.24:22)

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1,150 days after the great tribulation begins, God's organization of true worship on earth will have been refined. Jesus will have sent out his angels to remove the teachings causing a stumbling and the people causing wickedness. (Dan.8:14;Mt.13:41) [Note: Genesis 1 shows that "an evening and a morning" equal one day. Therefore the 2,300 evenings and mornings in Dan.8:14 equal 1,150 days.]

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1,260 days after the great tribulation begins anointed remnant on earth have finished their witnessing and are killed. (Rev.11:3,7)

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1,290 days after the great tribulation begins (Dan.12:11)

At some point during the great tribulation, the dead anointed are resurrected. Every eye will see them. Jesus was seen on earth after he was resurrected and before he went up to heaven in a cloud.(1Th.4:13-17;1Cor.15:51-54)

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1,335 days after the great tribulation begins (Dan.12:12)

The marriage of the Lamb happens when all the anointed are brought home to him. Marriage in ancient Israel took place when the bridegroom brought home the bride. As soon as the marriage takes place, the kingdom abysses Satan and the demons and destroys God's human enemies on earth. Every eye will see Jesus and the anointed. Then the kingdom comes down from heaven. Those on earth will interact personally with visible Jesus and the visible anointed priests/kings throughout the 1000 year reign. (Acts10:34,35)

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1000 years later final test, all opposers destroyed. Everyone alive truly a child of God. Children of God on earth now able to interact with Jehovah as Father in person as He comes to earth, since He Can Become Whatsoever He Chooses To Become, He can make a way to appear and interact one-on-one with his earthly kids and they won't burn up. "Jehovah Himself Will Be There" "God will wipe away every tear" The family is healed. Praise Jah!(Rev.20-22) 

 

"There is a God in the heavens who is a Revealer of secrets."

 

May Jehovah be praised!

[Moise Racette]

2 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

It is not a requirement to go to the governing body for light.

Then what was the purpose of the apostles and Paul if the poster wishes to accept such misinterpretation?

 

2 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

Paul did not go up to the governing body for years. He showed respect for their authority, but his respected Jehovah's authority and the authority of the Christ ahead of any committee of men on earth.

If the poster understands why Apostle Paul respected human authority it, was out of respect for Gods words. What is a group of Elders of a church but a form of community responsibility that God’s word instructed as well as Christ? Why would Christ have a need to be head of the congregation if there was to be no sub servants to continue his fine works until his second coming? Ephesians 1:21-23. If not, as the poster suggests, Matthew 23:3 would have no meaning. Therefore, it’s the posters interpretation that shouldn't be accepted, unless this posters is suggesting to have spiritual food delivered by Christ in Heaven.

Not only that, the poster disrespects and denies what is written in Hebrews 13:17

Hebrews 13:17

 New International Version

¹⁷ Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

The same faulty provision that @Witnesshas for denying scripture as mandated by God and Christ. Just like that poster this poster corrupts the understanding of the bible.

 

 

 

[Guest]

Jehovah is a God of organization.

 

But the angels that were part of his organization and yet rebelled were cast out.

 

Balaam was part of Jehovah's organization but cast out when he chose to serve for his own greedy purpose.

 

Korah and the other 250 men of fame, elders, were cast out even though at first they had been rescued from Egypt.

 

It is entirely proper and in accord with scripture to have an organization. God's family is organized. But we must obey God as ruler rather than man if those men in authority tell us to do or believe things that Jehovah says are wrong.

 

Korah did not get taken out right away. Neither did Balaam or the angels who rebelled. But they did in time.

 

The purpose of the governing body according to scripture was not to dictate what Jehovah said. It was to provide structure and stability. The governing body was to act as older brothers and handle judging according to scripture and guide according to scripture. Today the current governing body acts as "Holy Fathers" and makes decrees as the Pharisees and scribes did that go beyond what is written. They condemn and cut off any part of the body of Christ that does not bow the knee to their ungodly decrees. The governing body binds up heavy loads as the Pharisees did and yet does not budge them with their own finger, requiring counts and placements and traditions that go beyond what is written. They require worship of themselves rather than God. Then they shirk their responsibilities to show love and to love the flock of God. They disobey the most important commands, straining out the gnat but gulping down the camel.

 

Jehovah foretold what has happened. That is why the governing body and those elders who act like them are called "lawless ones" who are "revealed".

 

The time has arrived for judgment to start at the house of God. If you know anyone at Bethel, please beg them to return home before the tribulation begins.

 

Praise Jehovah!

[Guest]

Differences between the first-century governing body and the modern-day governing body:

 

The first-century governing body was made up of all the older and spiritually mature men at the headquarters of the organization. It was not just made up of the 12 apostles.

 

The modern-day governing body is made up of a committee of a handful of men rather than all the older and spiritually mature men at the headquarters of the organization. It is made up of only 8 men.

 

(Earlier, when there were millions in the wilderness to be led to the promised land, Jehovah had Moses take 70 elders and bestow authority on them. If Jehovah saw fit to use 70 elders when there were millions being led back then, would he really approve of only 8 men today? The Bible is clear how God operates. Jehovah hasn't changed.)

 

The first-century governing body did not make rules on dress and grooming or unique decrees of their own making or build a commune that required tithes to operate and maintain. (For example, when sending the decree on abstaining from blood, the men did not make up a new rule. They simply stated what was already written in the Bible and what holy spirit was showing, that circumcision was not required to be anointed with holy spirit.) The men worked secularly to support their ministry.

 

The modern-day governing body makes rules about how to wear suits and ties and no beards and what constitutes being exemplary (for example, as far as higher education being a disfellowshipping offense) and has built up communes where members of the flock do not work secularly for their own food and shelter and such members end up not going out to preach as often because they are working for the interests of the commune. The modern-day governing body writes books and manuals and letters that dictate things only the Christian's conscience should decide. 

 

The first-century governing body did not count time or placements and have divisions and distinctions and titles and labels such as "publisher" "pioneer" "circuit overseer" "branch overseer" "helper to the governing body" "disfellowshipped" "disassociated". They were all brothers. Some served as older brothers in the family, who were more experienced and spiritually mature, to help shepherd the flock in love. It wasn't a title or a means of selfish gain or to lord it over the flock making rules. It wasn't a so-called "holy father".

 

The modern-day governing body causes divisions by means of their many labels and schools and trainings and manuals. The brothers and sisters are made to feel they are not good enough if they don't have one of the "good" titles, and they are made to feel as if they are entirely bad if they have one of the "bad" titles. Brothers shun their own family members when Jesus actually said to help the weak, admonish your brother. If someone is incorrigibly wicked, the scriptures say to avoid hanging out with him, not to cut him off completely as if he was dead in the grave. Jewish greetings were long and drawn out affairs, so "don't even say a greeting to him" meant not having long association with someone who was teaching anti-christ doctrine unrepentantly. The modern-day governing body teaches anti-christ doctrine unrepentantly.

 

The first-century governing body did not have a PID to wash the outside of the cup. Or a legal department to defend sexually abusive elders. Or a HIS/HID to defend misuse of blood.

 

The modern-day governing body flirts with the nations by means of their media spiritual adultery group, the PID, washing the outside of the cup while the inside is full of disgusting things. The legal department sends "elders" who work at headquarters to attempt to deceive the courts, saying on the record that "the governing body has no say on rules in the congregations", saying this in order to get out of being culpable for the way the elders mishandle abuse and allow it to continue. At those very same court cases, the victims of abuse have to sit through such embarrassing public situations and not once do the "elders" try to shepherd or comfort the little sheep. Instead they are hands off, looking to protect their own interests. It's disgusting. (You can read the court documents online on courtlistener .com. Philip Brumley was even sanctioned by the court monetarily for purposely misleading the court. He got caught lying. Jehovah is not to be mocked. His rage is great against these men at Bethel and the elders who refuse to protect the little sheep.) The medical groups, such as HID/HIS, use high-sounding medical terms to persuade the flock that it is acceptable to take blood fractions in your body, even though the Bible is clear that blood should be completely poured out on the ground, which would not allow holding back even a tiny portion to reinsert into a body in any way. Their decrees have made many sin against God, while thinking they were pleasing the governing body, who are self-proclaimed "The Faithful And Discreet Slave". Jesus is not pleased with them and their shenanigans.

 

Jesus said there would be shepherds who fed themselves without fear taking the lead in the end of the last days. They hide what they are. By their spiritual immorality they sully the flock and the reputation of the congregation. The congregations would have a lack of love because many follow such ones. Even the nations are sick the lack of love in the organization, manifested by the disfellowshipping doctrine and the sexual abuse cases mishandled without common sense. Jesus foretold these things, the lack of love and that Jehovah's name and Jesus' name would be spoken of abusively because of the conduct of those taking the lead in the organization. This is how we would know it is the last hour.

 

Jehovah will clean his organization. His name is on it. "Jehovah's Witnesses". Jehovah tore down the elders in the past who did not follow what is written. Jehovah has not changed. There will be a holy remnant that survives. God is righteous. Jehovah will act for the sake of His Holy Name. 

 

Praise Jah!

[Moise Racette]

4 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

Jehovah is a God of organization.

 

But the angels that were part of his organization and yet rebelled were cast out.

What is the poster suggesting by this comment? That God is imperfect in the eyes of the poster?

3 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

Differences between the first-century governing body and the modern-day governing body:

 

The first-century governing body was made up of all the older and spiritually mature men at the headquarters of the organization. It was not just made up of the 12 apostles.

The poster vacates the premise with excuses. The same structure is seen with today's spiritual leaders. It was lost for millennia, and returned after the reformation. A more concise structure was reverted to its original intent after the 19th century. The Apostles became the correct framers for that spiritual structure. 

Therefore, the poster is elevating the Pharisees and schools of thought over God's word.

[Guest]

"Beloved ones, although I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to urge you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.  My reason is that certain men have slipped in among you who were long ago appointed to this judgment by the Scriptures; they are ungodly men who turn the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for brazen conduct and who prove false to our only owner and Lord, Jesus Christ."

 

Jehovah's Word says there would be bad shepherds in the congregation today.

 

"Although you are fully aware of all of this, I want to remind you that Jehovah, having saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those not showing faith.  And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgment of the great day."

 

Jehovah used the example of unfaithful angels to parallel what is happening by unfaithful overseers.

 

"In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality and pursued unnatural fleshly desires; they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire. Despite this, these men too are indulging in dreams, defiling the flesh, despising authority, and speaking abusively of glorious ones."

 

Spiritual adultery and spiritual immorality include claiming to be loyal to God while engaging in idolatrous practices, as the governing body and bodies of elders promote today in the congregations. Jehovah foretold all these things in His Word.

 

The men who go along with such idolatrous worship in Jehovah's house are defiling the authority of God and despising God's authority and speaking abusively of God. The men who go along with such idolatrous worship are indulging in dreams of their everlasting sovereignty rather than promoting the true universal family-like atmosphere that true worship inspires. God is Our Father. The governing body is not our father. Neither are the elders our father.

 

Jesus does not tolerate idol worship. It's disgusting to him.

 

God's Word is clear. Praise Jehovah, not men. Jehovah is the Only True God.

[Guest]

"However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves."

 

Claiming to be "The Faithful and Discreet Slave" while teaching doctrines that are against the scriptures makes the current governing body false teachers.

 

"Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively."

 

Because the organization has followed the leaders in this way of darkness, Jehovah's name has been spoken of abusively in the world, as evidenced by the current Norway situation (the disfellowshipping doctrine is a God-dishonoring doctrine) and the sex abuse cases (the way the elders handle the issue is not in harmony with the kingly law of love.)

 

"Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words."

 

The current governing body teaches that God has two classes of children. The Bible teaches the family will be one. Those on earth will also interact with Jehovah as Father as individuals, and they will interact with Jesus and the anointed. The governing body does not teach the truth on many Bible scriptures because they want to keep their sovereignty and authority, authority that is beyond what God has assigned to them. The governing body has built up an organization of slaves for their own selfish desires, including having a commune to live where they don't have to work secularly and weekly Watchtower studies all over the world where sheep have been trained to comment "the GB says," and "The Slave says" instead of saying "Jehovah says" and "Jesus says." The governing body has done the same as the Pharisees of old who wanted glory from men rather than glory for God.

 

"But their judgment, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping. Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarʹta·rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment. And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people. And by reducing the cities of Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah to ashes, he condemned them, setting a pattern for ungodly people of things to come." 

 

Jehovah is judging them.

 

"And he rescued righteous Lot, who was greatly distressed by the brazen conduct of the lawless people—   for day after day that righteous man was tormenting his righteous soul over the lawless deeds that he saw and heard while dwelling among them."

 

Righteous ones today are sighing and groaning over what is going on in the organization. Jehovah knows where these righteous ones are. Those who hunger for righteousness will be filled.

 

"So, then, Jehovah knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial, but to reserve unrighteous people to be destroyed on the day of judgment, especially those who seek to defile the flesh of others and who despise authority. Daring and self-willed, they are not afraid to speak abusively of glorious ones, whereas angels, although they are greater in strength and power, do not bring against them an accusation in abusive terms, out of respect for Jehovah. But these men, like unreasoning animals that act on instinct and are born to be caught and destroyed, speak abusively about things of which they are ignorant."

 

The men on the governing body talk of "wicked apostates". While there are some apostates outside the organization who bitterly oppose the truth, others who the governing body labels as apostates are not really apostates but rather integrity keepers.

 

"They will suffer destruction brought on by their own destructive course, suffering harm as their reward for their own harmful course. They consider it pleasurable to indulge in luxurious living, even in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes who revel in their deceptive teachings while feasting together with you. Their eyes are full of adultery and are unable to desist from sin, and they entice unstable ones. They have a heart trained in greed. They are accursed children.  Abandoning the straight path, they have been led astray. They have followed the path of Baʹlaam the son of Beʹor, who loved the reward of wrongdoing,  but was reproved for his own violation of what was right. A voiceless beast of burden speaking with a human voice hindered the prophet’s mad course. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a violent storm, and the blackest darkness has been reserved for them.  They make high-sounding statements that are empty. By appealing to the desires of the flesh and with acts of brazen conduct, they entice people who have just escaped from those who live in error.  While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for if anyone is overcome by someone, he is his slave."

 

Living in a commune with slaves to clean house and cook. Building with other peoples money. Making videos and articles to perpetuate self-idolatry. "Teaching" and "shepherding" for prominence and reward, like Balaam. Making high-sounding statements that are empty. Not warning the flock about the destruction about to come on the organization. They are asleep. They indoctrinate the sheep to become slaves to the governing body, rather than slaves to Christ and Jehovah.

 

Jehovah has warned us. His Word is clear. The lawless one is revealed. You can choose to see or to be blind. Jesus shines the light when it is his time. 

 

Praise Jehovah, who is glorified through Christ Jesus Our Lord.

[Moise Racette]

I see the poster cannot in all conscience make a good argument on why the posters message should be considered. There is nothing the poster has boosted as an argument that an apostate has delivered in such an unconvincing way. Once again, this posters lamentation should not be followed by any reader.

[Guest]

"Then Moses got up and went to Daʹthan and A·biʹram, and the elders of Israel went with him.  He told the assembly: 

 

“Move away, please, from the tents of these wicked men and do not touch anything that belongs to them, so that you may not be swept away in all their sin.”  

 

They immediately moved away from the tents of Korʹah, Daʹthan, and A·biʹram, from every side, and Daʹthan and A·biʹram came out, taking their stand at the entrance of their tents, together with their wives, their sons, and their little children. 

 

Then Moses said: “By this you will know that Jehovah has sent me to do all these things, that it is not of my own heart:  If these people die a natural death as all men do and if their punishment is the same as that of all mankind, then Jehovah has not sent me.  But if Jehovah does something extraordinary with them and the ground opens and swallows them and everything that belongs to them and they go down alive into the Grave, you will certainly know that these men have treated Jehovah disrespectfully.” 

 

As soon as he finished speaking all these words, the ground beneath them split apart.  And the earth opened and swallowed them up, along with their households and everyone who belonged to Korʹah and all their goods.  So they and all who belonged to them went down alive into the Grave, and the earth covered them over, so that they perished from the midst of the congregation."

 

Being an elder or a famous person didn't help Korah and the 250 men of fame when they sinned against Jehovah in a serious way. The governing body and many of the elders today are sinning against Jehovah in a serious way. They have been warned. Jehovah has said what He is going to do.

 

If the governing body and Bethel are not attacked by the nations at the beginning of the great tribulation, then Jehovah has not sent me. But if Jehovah does allow the nations to begin their attack on false religion by starting at Bethel with the elders in the front of the house, then you will know that those men have treated Jehovah disrespectfully. If you choose to stand near those who are going to be taken out, that's your choice. I wouldn't recommend embracing false doctrines. Jehovah hates false doctrines. He is cleaning His house. If you embrace what Jehovah hates, you will be cleaned out too. I have nothing more to say to you on this subject. Jehovah's time is near. The warning has been given.

 

You are all witnesses.

 

Praise Jehovah!

[Moise Racette]

1 hour ago, AnnaNana said:

"Then Moses got up and went to Daʹthan and A·biʹram, and the elders of Israel went with him.  He told the assembly: 

 

“Move away, please, from the tents of these wicked men and do not touch anything that belongs to them, so that you may not be swept away in all their sin.”  

If the poster was around in the time of Moses, Moses would be referencing such wicked tents of the poster. It doesn't matter, poster, the message is still coming from a wicked one.

[Guest]

I obey my Lord, the Christ. He is the one who sent me. The one who sent me is and is with me was around in the times of Moses just as he was around in the times of Abraham. 

 

"Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God.  Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.  Abraham your father rejoiced greatly at the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.”  Then the Jews said to him: “You are not yet 50 years old, and still you have seen Abraham?”  Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

 

There is a song I know regarding Moses:

 

"And I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who are victorious over the wild beast and its image and the number of its name were standing by the sea of glass, holding harps of God. They were singing the song of Moses the slave of God and the song of the Lamb, saying: 

 

“Great and wonderful are your works, Jehovah God, the Almighty. Righteous and true are your ways, King of eternity. Who will not really fear you, Jehovah, and glorify your name, for you alone are loyal? For all the nations will come and worship before you, because your righteous decrees have been revealed.”"

 

Jehovah's righteous decrees have been revealed. The lawless one is to be removed. Jehovah will save those who love what is righteous.

 

"...the solid foundation of God remains standing, having this seal, “Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and, “Let everyone calling on the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.”"

 

Jehovah raises up the lowly and brings the haughty one down low. Jehovah loves and succeeds and is to be praised forever and ever. Praise Jehovah for his mightiness and love and glory and wonderfulness!

 

Praise Jah!🥰