Some say one thing, and some say something completely different

[Srecko Sostar]

19 hours ago, Juan Rivera said:

On 10/26/2023 at 9:17 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

I found one article to educate me more on about this. https://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/historical-theology/tax-collectors/

 

I don't really understand why Jesus would use a tax collector in his teaching about internal relationships among fellow believers.
The tax collector was a legally appointed person from the Roman authorities. Nobody likes taxes and tax collectors, both before and today. I will use the cynicism of GB who said that "Jesus did not promise perfect spiritual food". Jesus also did not promise that you will not be taxed by the authorities. He did not promise that taxes would be low. He did not promise that injustice would not overtake you. And so on and so forth. Finally, JWs boast of being completely law-abiding and paying (unjust) taxes, both in the 1st century and today.
Furthermore, everyone will agree with what @Juan Rivera said about ex-JW status. Ex-JWs fall into the category of "neighbors" just like tax collectors and Gentiles.

In the light of the comments that are presented here and emphasize the need for less influence of the written word, the Bible, and a stronger influence of the interpretation of the written word by those who are "authorized and appointed" to interpret it, then the existing interpretation of completely ignoring excluded JWs would need reinterpretation.
Among other things, JWs go to prisons to convert people who have been marked as criminals by a "higher authority", who they say is appointed by God to their position. The same elders who are cordial with the prisoners despise the ex-JW when they see him on the street. That's a normal state of mind and emotion, right? That was Jesus' intention in his teachings, from chapter 18?

 

@Srecko Sostar can you restate this comment, I'm having trouble understanding it after re-reading it a few times, sorry.

15 “If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

The first assumption about someone's "sin" is that someone's action is really "sin". The second assumption is whether it is a "sin" that requires intervention. A further condition is based on the mutual relations between the one who rebukes and the one who is potentially rebuked. Is the "sin" committed directly to the one who wants to rebuke. Or it is someone who is not personally involved in the "damage" that was done to someone. Is it even about damage that someone personally suffers, or is it outside of such a context (someone took a blood transfusion, for example, so it is not damage caused to us personally). The condition would also be set as to whether I have the knowledge and skills to explain what is actually wrong and what is the solution to the problem, because that is, like, the first and basic reason why someone should be approached (ie win over a brother).
However, the problem arises in the legislation of "sin". Because sometimes a sin is a crime. Although it is theologically possible to conclude that in fact every sin is a crime, a crime against God, so it's actually a complicated situation.
If "sin" is rape or theft, etc., then our participation in all this is actually problematic. Is the purpose of our intervention to persuade the offender to turn himself in to the police or to just repent of his actions?
However it all turns out in the end, every person is actually a "neighbor", even an unrepentant sinner. Because there are many walking around the world who do not repent of their sins, and yet we should consider them our neighbors, regardless of what knowledge about them we have or not.
I would understand that I am not being greeted by someone whom I have personally harmed. It is easily possible that I would have retaliated in kind if someone else had wronged me. I am "imperfect" after all. :))

Furthermore, the question is who and what is a "congregation". Judicial Committee or the entire community of believers?

What in today's WTJWorg procedure is close/equal to that of the 1st century? Is the interpretation of today's GB a faithful imitation/copy of the actions of the 1st congregation?

Is it the authority of the individual and the congregation to judge only the "moral and doctrinal" transgressions of its members, or does this authority also apply to all other sins/crimes? Because the Bible speaks of "higher powers that carry a sword to punish". Is WTJWorg then allowed to punish or pardon the sin/crime of its members instead of those whom God has "ordained to that position"?

[Pudgy]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

  …. GB says, we hear that on JWTV, they meet and discuss, brainstorm, confront ideas, etc. It's a clash of minds and ideas. A completely normal human activity. Brainstorming and similar methods are called "guided by" the Bible. So what is the difference with "guided by HS"?

….

[Juan Rivera]

*Typo*

 

[Juan Rivera]

typo

[Srecko Sostar]

 

[Srecko Sostar]

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, George88 said:

I agree with the perspective on the article's claim. Back in the 70s, the Vatican held a stance against homosexuality, but now it has adopted a more inclusive approach by supporting the idea of blessing same-sex partnerships.

I have noticed that there are individuals within the Christian community who criticize and disapprove of the observance of "Christmas," often supporting their argument with biblical reasoning. It appears that the Watchtower Society is not the only organization that is becoming more open in its approach to studying the Bible in various areas.

I think that the ban on celebrating birthdays is a stupid idea, which has no basis in the Biblical text. A revision of such dogma at WTJWorg is needed.

As for "Christmas", the exact date is not known, so its celebration is questionable. In addition, Jesus is not on Earth, so he cannot be congratulated or brought gifts. 

Let us therefore dwell on the birthdays of mortals. lol

[Pudgy]

Papa Goldfish to Mama Goldfish, in their Golden Years “ You know, babe, we have had a good life in this pond, plenty of food, clean water, and seen the birth of our 22,000 children. We should celebrate!”

” A life without celebration is like sleeping upside down on the surface.”

 

[Pudgy]

Well …. I am just glad that in Finland the WTB&TS decided that the $12,000,000 government tax subsidy was so important that now … in Finland … there are (theoretically) no Congregational sanctions against Brothers and Sisters voting for issues they believe in (This has all been extensively discussed here previously at great length …), because Finland considers voting a fundamental human right that must never be abridged, or punished. 

Had the society not done this they would have been “deregistered”, AND forfeited all that moolah!

Be careful when someone in AUTHORITY tells you how to view something that may cause the civilization you depend on to succeed or fail, taking you with it either way.

How many times have “they” been right …. and how many times have “they” been wrong?  

The answer is important!

If “they” are wrong … ,  “they” pay NO Price whatsoever … not even an apology for screwing up your lives.

Follow the money, and you learn WHY things really happen.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Pudgy said:

 

Had the society not done this they would have been “deregistered”, AND forfeited all that moolah!

Be careful when someone in AUTHORITY tells you how to view something that may cause the civilization you depend on to succeed or fail, taking you with it either way.

How many times have “they” been right …. and how many times have “they” been wrong?  

The answer is important!

If “they” are wrong … ,  “they” pay NO Price whatsoever … not even an apology for screwing up your lives.

Follow the money, and you learn WHY things really happen.

 

Thanks for update on this in Finland.

[Srecko Sostar]

 

[Pudgy]

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Thanks for update on this in Finland.

It’s “old news”, possibly 4 or 5 years old …    

There will be a Governing Body update #2105-8 to all Branch Offices and Congregations worldwide sometime after about 80+ years.

All the Elders will be … um … scratching their beards.