What is our scriptural basis for refusing transfusion of products rendered from blood?

[Many Miles]

4 minutes ago, Anna said:

My cousin, a non Witness, studied medicine. She never got her doctor's license because she decided to sell drugs instead. By that I mean pharmaceuticals. She told me that many people do not realize how risky blood transfusions are and that she would never have one herself. But of course as Witnesses that is not our reason for not accepting blood transfusions. I am aware that there are lots of other views on what "abstaining from blood" means. Personally, I think that all of it should be a conscience matter. I don't normally comment on the open forum, so this is all I am going to say about it. 

Anna,

I'll say the same thing to you that district and circuit overseers have said to me, and at least one who used to be at Bethel, lyman Swingle. It's brave of you to openly state what needs stating. Of course we all know our Master, the Christ, did  this. He was disfellowshipped the old fashion way for doing it. But he spoke what needed to be said nevertheless. None of use are greater than our Master.

Given the above, I'm not expecting more in the way of response. I will say that I agree with you that the whole thing should be left to each person's conscience. If folks want to believe something is of the Bible that they can't prove true from the Bible, well that's their business. But these should never take it upon themselves to force that view onto others without being able to prove the position true to he extent they want to enforce it.

As for dangers of blood transfusion, yes there are dangers. But there is such a thing as bleeding to death. That's real! Very real! In medical cases of severe anemia often the only thing that will prevent death is transfusion of packed red cells. In my case, I'd only accept transfusion of a product rendered from blood if that was the best available option.

[Many Miles]

3 minutes ago, George88 said:

It seems that you confused my previous comment. You mentioned carrion in the other topic by which you also mentioned "biological fat" after lying about spoiled meat. I provided specific examples to clarify my point. Therefore, my answer was a clear "no" to using animal fat. Let's continue with your wordplay.

"However, the notion of Seth consuming unhealthy and forbidden foods, such as fatty, decomposed carcasses, spoiled meat, and blood, not ordained by God. "

As a deceitful individual, you possess the ability to manipulate facts to your advantage.

George,

Only you know what you're talking about. Your sentences and paragraphs are so confusing they're like words wrapped around an axle. I want nothing but the best for you.

[Many Miles]

6 minutes ago, George88 said:

...the Mosaic Law remains

...

...the laws of Moses were to be followed...

...

George,

Christ is the end of the Law.

 

[Many Miles]

6 minutes ago, George88 said:

In order to have a deeper understanding of the teachings of the Bible, it is important to grasp the underlying principles of scripture.

By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees.

6 minutes ago, George88 said:

To me, it seems rather ordinary and straightforward what I was alluding to.

Yes, which is why I said earlier, "Only you know what you're talking about. Your sentences and paragraphs are so confusing they're like words wrapped around an axle. I want nothing but the best for you."

[Many Miles]

16 minutes ago, George88 said:

This signifies that...

"Signifies"!!! LOL. I bet you read the old Babylon book, and UNDERSTOOD IT.

George, if nothing else, you're funny.

I wish nothing but the best for you.

[Many Miles]

3 minutes ago, George88 said:

I have now added you to my list of regulars.

And I have just placed you on ignore. Have a good life George. You can waste someone else's time now.

[Thinking]

7 hours ago, Many Miles said:

Yes. Transfusion of blood is an organ transplant.

Because JWs accept transfusion of product rendered from blood than JWs are exposed to all the dangers of transplantation.

Scripturally the notion of "eating" is something done for nutrition. We can render several products from the donor blood supply.

Let's talk about a product from blood we are supposed to reject, the one called red cells. If you solely transfuse red cells in an attempt at parenteral nutrition the patient will get no nutritional benefit and the patient will die from starvation.

Now let's talk about a product from blood we can accept, the one called cryosupernatant plasma. If you solely transfuse cryosupernatant plasma in an attempt at parenteral nutrition the patient will get nutritional benefit and you have an opportunity to prevent a patient from starving to death.

Hence, in relation to "eating" we have the contradictory position where a product we are told to reject provides no nutritional benefit when administered intravenously where of a product we are told we can accept it does provide nutritional benefit.

 

You are talking a lot just as the brothers have to talk a lot to explain something so simple…..there is no need to give such a salad of words…..when the brothers explain all of this like you did my eyes just glaze over …..the society talks like it..you talk like it….others talk like it…..for and against and it never ends..over and over and over for years and years I’ve seen this play out on line.

You are talking about eating…about nutrition…it’s nothing to do with either of that…it’s about respect …..Respect to Jehovah….just like Eve was supposed to show respect to a certain fruit from a tree…..blood can be likened to that.

Get away from this medical intellectual word play…yes yes I know the brothers use it and I guess it’s a must at times..but cryosupernatant is still a small part of the full blood…..and a lot of this is straining the gnat talk….if you do not agree with the blood aspect..then best not to get baptised…I would respect and welcome you either way.

[Many Miles]

13 minutes ago, Thinking said:

You are talking a lot just as the brothers have to talk a lot to explain something so simple…..there is no need to give such a salad of words…..when the brothers explain all of this like you did my eyes just glaze over …..the society talks like it..you talk like it….others talk like it…..for and against and it never ends..over and over and over for years and years I’ve seen this play out on line.

You are talking about eating…about nutrition…it’s nothing to do with either of that…it’s about respect …..Respect to Jehovah….just like Eve was supposed to show respect to a certain fruit from a tree…..blood can be likened to that.

Get away from this medical intellectual word play…yes yes I know the brothers use it and I guess it’s a must at times..but cryosupernatant is still a small part of the full blood…..and a lot of this is straining the gnat talk….if you do not agree with the blood aspect..then best not to get baptised…I would respect and welcome you either way.

I hear you. Now if only a lot of folks could regain the best years of their lives by not taking the society as seriously as they told them to but weren't doing themselves.

For your information, cryosupernatant is not a small part of blood. Cryosupernatant is more than 50 percent of the blood circulating in your veins this very moment. It's no wonder the society does not list it on its charts and graphs of what we can accept as a personal conscience matter. I mean, what message would that send in terms of a "minor fraction"?

For me, this is not medical word play. As an elder I helped parents make decisions about their babies, and some of them died when they could have been saved. it makes me cry to this day just to think about it. Keyboarding this makes me grieve for those babies, and their families.

I do respect you too, either way. Real unity is folks holding common cause despite differences. Unity is not to be confused with uniformity.

The dead babies won't let my eyes glaze over. They keep me up at night.

[Thinking]

3 hours ago, Many Miles said:

I hear you. Now if only a lot of folks could regain the best years of their lives by not taking the society as seriously as they told them to but weren't doing themselves.

For your information, cryosupernatant is not a small part of blood. Cryosupernatant is more than 50 percent of the blood circulating in your veins this very moment. It's no wonder the society does not list it on its charts and graphs of what we can accept as a personal conscience matter. I mean, what message would that send in terms of a "minor fraction"?

For me, this is not medical word play. As an elder I helped parents make decisions about their babies, and some of them died when they could have been saved. it makes me cry to this day just to think about it. Keyboarding this makes me grieve for those babies, and their families.

I do respect you too, either way. Real unity is folks holding common cause despite differences. Unity is not to be confused with uniformity.

The dead babies won't let my eyes glaze over. They keep me up at night.

Many Miles I am genuinely with hand on my heart so sorry for your pain. no words will extinguish the guilt you feel….personally I do not see that you should think you have any..

I dont know how many babies you lost in this way..or why this happened.

in my books the blood issue needs to be respected…and you helped some parents when they needed that.You were a pillar of strength. It’s a massive emotional and spiritual burden to take on and you did it in good faith at the time.

I dont know your story thus why you no longer have the same belief as us anymore concerning it.

I sighed loudly when I read your post and thought…what has he been thru.

I have been on line for..oh well…ever so long …and heard many sad stories and I can honestly say…my story has been the saddest of all I have read…..I too wish I could turn back the clock and avoid what lay ahead…but alas..it has only been the internet that uncovered many things for me……………..and Franz’s book made me stronger….NOT weaker in our faith.

Dont let the King Sauls and Korah’s or the JUDAS LIKE brothers force you out.

I hope you find a little scrap of peace brother. I’m barely hanging on but soon this will all be over with and I don’t want to be known by Jehovah for hurting my brothers and sisters……….I write this with much grief xx

 

[Anna]

@Many Miles I second all of what Thinking said in the last post.

 

[Many Miles]

4 hours ago, Many Problems said:

It seems that the people in this forum are the ones responsible for forcing others out.

That's an odd thing to think. Does a library force people out because it contains books addressing many subjects from many perspective in many disciplines. Doesn't each person decide which book he pulls from the shelf, what subject he wants to learn more about, etc.?

4 hours ago, Many Problems said:

Instead of fostering positivity, there is a prevailing negative attitude that goes against the principles of being a Christian.

The only negative thing I see here (and I've not been here for long) is an apprehension to offer straightforward answers to straightforward questions. But it's not really negative in the sense that it bothers me. It's only negative in that it impedes engaging beneficial discussion.

 

4 hours ago, Many Problems said:

When did you all start believing that you are flawless?

I've not observed a single participant here who thinks themselves flawless. Who are these people you speak of?

4 hours ago, Many Problems said:

If you hold such deep contempt for the Organization, then there's no need for anyone to compel you to leave; you have already done so in the eyes of Jehovah.

Even the organization recognizes it is made up of people, each of which has their own personal conscience which varies from person to person. So we all have differences. Having differences is no reason to leave. Why run from what God has given us as a gift. Choice. So long as we act genuinely to do His will we have no reason to think His eyes will look upon us in a bad way. Our worship must be our own. If we just blindly follow what someone in authority tells us to do all we're doing is worshiping God for someone else.

 

4 hours ago, Many Problems said:

We are on the verge of the final chapter, and it is crucial that we maintain a positive outlook. Let us remember the lessons from the Israelites, for God does not desire this negativity from His people.

We should live each day in expectation. But we also do well to make today's decisions based on God's testimony (Bible and creation) and sound reason. There's no reason not to do both, and every reason to do both.

4 hours ago, Many Problems said:

It is worth noting that in earlier times, the scientific evidence supporting the matter of blood was not as extensive as it is today. Hence, it would be unfair to criticize the organization for something that was previously unknown. Such narrow-mindedness would surely be foolish.

The notion that red cells provide nutrition when transfused has been debunked since the 1940s. The notion that plasma (including cryosupernatant plasma) could provide nutrition when transfused has also been known since the 1940s. This is not new information. If you need reference material I'd happily reference my library and provide citations. You should be able to access the material either online or from you local library.

It is good to make sure of all things and hold fast to what is fine.

 

[Many Miles]

10 hours ago, Thinking said:

Many Miles I am genuinely with hand on my heart so sorry for your pain. no words will extinguish the guilt you feel….personally I do not see that you should think you have any..

I was following the society's guidelines, which is just another lame way of saying I was just following orders. I regret it to this day.

10 hours ago, Thinking said:

I dont know how many babies you lost in this way..or why this happened.

The mortality was due to anemia that was completely treatable with donor blood, only the products rendered from whole blood were on the society's list of things that could not be taken. That's why they died.

10 hours ago, Thinking said:

I hope you find a little scrap of peace brother. I’m barely hanging on but soon this will all be over with and I don’t want to be known by Jehovah for hurting my brothers and sisters…

Thank you for saying that. And, for my part, I don't intend to sit on truth thinking saying out loud what should be said out loud somehow is a bad thing. Wounds inflicted by a friend are faithful.