New Light on Beards

[Pudgy]

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

Can you imagine Jesus or the Apostles carrying a suitcase or a trunk of stuff? ….

I notice whenever I ask this question, no one ever answers it. 

[Thinking]

3 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

I notice whenever I ask this question, no one ever answers it. 

They carried a donkey full of scrolls I presume….

[Thinking]

10 hours ago, Anna said:

What?

It’s an old teaching..may or not be true ..I have see even studies  from the world concerning this 

[TrueTomHarley]

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Some of those who never celebrated their birthday may soon be celebrating Beard Day. Mark December 15th on the calendar. We don’t have that many holidays.

In France it could be known as the Day the Beardstile fell.

 

9 hours ago, Many Miles said:

Honestly it saddens me to see men following men. Just plain petty. Which version of "the organization" are folks supposed to follow?

Maybe if they are doused with water they will melt away like the wicked witch, leaving the rest of us frrreeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! 

Then you would not be so sad and could instead be happy.

9 hours ago, Many Miles said:

Worship God by living decently. . . . . If this is done sincerely it is enough

Next thing you know, my spiritual life will have come round full circle, back to ‘Be good so you can go to heaven when you die and meet the Man Upstairs.’

[xero]

9 hours ago, Many Miles said:

Honestly it saddens me to see men following men. Just plain petty. Which version of "the organization" are folks supposed to follow? Folks treat men like God, who decides for them what is supposed to be good or bad. The GB shows over and over again it can flip its teachings upside down. What are honest people trying to live right supposed to do? Just prostrate themselves before mortals like themselves and say, "Please! Tell us how today what we should do today to worship our Creator, and tell us tomorrow if YOU want us to do the opposite and we will." Put that in your next work of fiction. Or, maybe its a reality in someone's mind? Go ahead. Write it. It should be that way.

Men who follow men are victims of a dominion never granted to mankind. Mankind was granted dominion over animals, vegetation and the earth. But not dominion of men. Men who dominate men do so to the injury of those whom are dominated by men.

Worship God by living decently. Treat your fellow man as you would want to be treated yourself. Be willing to give your life for those whom you love. Fear God. Do your best to learn yourself what He expects of you. If this is done sincerely it is enough. There is no more to give than your best. Anything beyond that and God will step in to help. And, why not. According to the biblical account, all God ever wanted from Adam was to live in harmony with the natural world provided, and to have enough respect to abide by a single prohibition beyond that.

But that doesn't seem to be enough for some folks. No. Some folks need us to worship "the organization".

• Exodus 20:3 : "You must not have any other gods besides me."

• Psalm 118:8 : "It is better to take refuge in Jehovah than to trust in humans."

• Psalm 146:3 : "Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation."

• Isaiah 2:22 : "Stop trusting in mere man, whose life's breath is in his nostrils. Why should he be taken into account?"

• Jeremiah 17:5 : "This is what Jehovah says: 'Cursed is the man who puts his trust in mere humans, who relies on human power and whose heart turns away from Jehovah.'"

• 1 Corinthians 3:4-7 : "For when one says, 'I belong to Paul,' but another says, 'I to A•polʹlos,' are you not acting like mere men? What, then, is A•polʹlos? Yes, what is Paul? Ministers through whom you became believers, just as the Lord granted each one. I planted, A•polʹlos watered, but God kept making it grow."

• Matthew 23:8-10 : "But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ."

• Colossians 2:8: "Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ."

• Galatians 1:10: "Am I now trying to win the approval of men or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I would not be Christ’s slave.

•  Acts, 12:22 - "But the crowd were calling out, 'A god’s voice and not a man’s!'"
  In this context, the people were praising Herod Agrippa I to the extent that they attributed divine qualities to him.It underscores the danger of excessive praise and attributing divine qualities to human leaders, which can have negative consequences, as Herod Agrippa I faced divine judgment for accepting such adulation.

• Nope. Go no further than scripture allows.
  1 Samuel 8:6-9 : "But the thing was bad in the eyes of Samuel, because they said: 'Give us a king to judge us.' Then Samuel prayed to Jehovah. Jehovah said to Samuel: 'Listen to the voice of the people as regards all that they say to you, for it is not you whom they have rejected; they have rejected me from being their king. Like all the other nations, they have done to me the same that they have done to you.'"

        Prophets, yes? Kings? How very predictable and disappointing.

"And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ, until we all attain to the oneness of the faith and of the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to being a full-grown man, attaining the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ." (Ephesians 4:11-13)

Ephesians 4:11-13 does not suggest that ecclesiastical authority should hold a believer's conscience in thrall or control. Instead, these verses emphasize the role of certain spiritual gifts and positions within the Christian congregation for the purpose of equipping and building up believers.

[xero]

I was thinking how (I mean I don't know because I'm not privy to the GB's private thoughts, but I can imagine them being frustrated at) some who have the desire to worship the organization.
Reminds me of this scripture:
"...But when the apostles Barʹna·bas and Paul heard of it, they ripped their outer garments and leaped out into the crowd, crying out and saying: 'Men, why are you doing these things? We too are humans having the same infirmities as you have. " Acts 14:8-18

[xero]

Also brings to mind Acts 21:20: "On hearing this, they began to glorify God, but they said to him: 'You see, brother, how many thousands of believers there are among the Jews, and they are all zealous for the Law.'"

In this verse, the believers in Jerusalem are acknowledging that many Jewish converts to Christianity are still devoted to observing the Jewish law (the Mosaic Law). The phrase is used to highlight the continued practice of Jewish customs and traditions among some Jewish Christians in the early Christian community.

Even then the customs were including a lot of things which weren't written in the Mosaic Law. Yet they kept doing them. This is why it doesn't surprise me that there are some who see changes in certain areas to be faith shaking because these have equated certain practices of the past to have been unequivocally scriptural, and if the GB ever suggested we should adopt pattern A, rather than pattern B, then that was as good as scripture to these.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

32 minutes ago, xero said:

I was thinking how (I mean I don't know because I'm not privy to the GB's private thoughts, but I can imagine them being frustrated at) some who have the desire to worship the organization.

I’ve often thought that, too.

17 minutes ago, xero said:

This is why it doesn't surprise me that there are some who see changes in certain areas to be faith shaking because these have equated certain practices of the past to have been unequivocally scriptural, and if the GB ever suggested we should adopt pattern A, rather than pattern B, then that was as good as scripture to these.

It is why I’ve in the past made my own little witticism, as though G .K Chesterton himself:

It is hard to direct a large group of people. One says, ‘Thanks for the new rule!’ whereas his neighbor says, ‘Huh? Did you say something?’

[JW Insider]

10 hours ago, Thinking said:

21 hours ago, Anna said:

What?

It’s an old teaching..may or not be true ..I have see even studies  from the world concerning this 

I figured that George88 was coming at this from the verses he quoted. Still, It reminds me of an old teaching once promoted by a GB member at Bethel: that it's the natural, physical heart that is the seat of motivations. In a talk I heard him give at our Assembly Hall he would say that persons who have  been given heart transplants from a criminal have reported that they themselves now have criminal tendencies. It was common to see things like this in the "Watching the World" pages of the Awake! too. Later, when I worked for this brother, he had already been asked to stop giving that talk that promoted the physical heart as the actual seat of human motivation, but he asked me to always be on the lookout for any new information that might support the theory.

*** g71 11/22 p. 31 Watching the World ***
Disenchantment with Heart Transplants
◆ Since 1967 doctors have performed 166 heart transplants, but the initial enthusiasm is gone. Too many patients have died—more than 85 percent thus far. There were also bad side effects. There were depression, brief periods of being psychotic, memory lapses, sleeplessness and marked changes in personality. According to Life magazine, immunologists have concluded that “the heart is a peculiar, particular organ, not only a pump, but a creature of some internal, unknown majesty.”

*** w81 9/15 p. 15 Insight on the News ***
“Heart Overrides Everything”
● Heart specialists now believe that about one third of heart patients have emotional problems after surgery. This often begins about the second day following the operation and may last about a week. Some patients become delirious; some suffer from weird dreams and hallucinations; others have severe bouts with anxiety and depression. To deal with the emotional problems that some patients have after surgery, heart surgeons and psychiatrists around the world recently formed an international consortium. The consortium would like doctors and nurses to pay as much careful attention to a patient’s emotional state after heart surgery as they do to heartbeats.
The specialists speak of the psychological significance of the heart. For example, psychiatrist Richard S. Blacher of Tufts–New England Medical Center in Boston says of the heart: “It’s a very special organ. People commonly think of it as the seat of emotions. In our minds, the heart overrides everything.”—“Newsweek,” May 25, 1981, p. 63.
How true it is that the heart tends to overrule the head, the seat of intellect! In view of this, the heart, above all else, must be disciplined and trained to respond to Bible guidance. It must be taught to appreciate spiritual qualities. These qualities spring from God. “More than all else that is to be guarded,” says God’s Word, “safeguard your heart, for out of it are the sources of life.”—Prov. 4:23; compare Matthew 15:19.
 

*** g70 10/22 p. 29 Watching the World ***
Personality Change
◆ According to a report that appeared on United Press International of August 18, 1970, the daughter of Philip Blaiberg said that he had experienced a complete personality change after undergoing a heart-transplant operation. 

Awake! 8/22 p. 29:

[Pudgy]

…. I suspect the same is true of beards …..

 

[TrueTomHarley]

44 minutes ago, George88 said:

If you align with Xero, I suggest a thorough understanding of 1 Corinthians 2. Before disputing other's actions or understanding, we must first examine our own. Ultimately, we must consider who truly garners God's support: those who reject the teachings of scripture, or those who earnestly strive to follow them.

It will help if I can have a clue as to what you are talking about. Is Xero on your naughty list, too?

[TrueTomHarley]

23 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

he had already been asked to stop giving that talk

He may yet be vindicated. Search phrases such as ‘after heart transplant changes in personality.’ A lot comes up, most of it quite recent.