New Light on Beards

[Pudgy]

I think the point everyone is forgetting, and that we can IGNORE the drivel of who is right and who is wrong about 1914, 1975 and the dozens of other issues that have no credibility whatsoever.  The price is high and the scars are painful and permanent and the casualty rate is high …. but it CAN BE DONE! 

If 85% of what you believe and act on is 85% drivel, the Core Truth is still valid, and that is enough to demonstrate fealty and allegiance to Jehovah God. 

We may even slay or cripple each other, and fall in the battle but  defending or castigating “1914” has NOTHING to do with becoming a close friend of God and Christ.

In the “Big Picture” only the 15% Core Truths are important.

Who pees in their pants in a game of chicken over “1914” or “1975” is only a distraction that subverts the righteous away from concentrating on the mission.

If we fall under a hail of unrelenting stupidity … guess what?

….. we get a “Do Over”!

 

[Thinking]

3 hours ago, xero said:

The thing is, that one thing I go back to, is not so much that the humans behind the organization have been brilliant, or their ideas were literally from Jehovah's mouth to their ears (or even what was imagined w/regard to those who imagine themselves to be anointed) is this: Jehovah uses organizations to accomplish his will and purposes. With all it's defects this particular organization has highlighted and stuck to many important fundamental points. No Trinity, no hellfire, the kingdom is a government, Jesus is the king of that government, the need to personally get on board with preaching personally. It was the only one annoying enough to get my attention back when I was an unhappy atheist. "1914? Are you kidding me? That's pretty specific. How did you get that?" It little matters to me now that certain things I'd expected didn't take place as I'd expected, or even as I was led to believe. The people I was introduced to were really different and different because THEY believed what they were saying. There was a personal cost to the individual to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses. One can't say that about most nominally Christian organizations. Disfellowshipping, as painful as it is and has been is a critical factor as well, though I disagree with it's use as a tool to silence those drawing attention to perceived or real failings. In the end it is and has served in my view, Jehovah's purposes, though I'll admit to believing that it is not the only one in history or even today to be doing so. I think of the dragnet illustration,and the organizations admission to be part of that dragnet, and I  believe that this is so, and though I couldn't attach myself to any other organization I still feel that it's up to each individual to work out his own salvation with fear and trembling (all the while I can't admit to so much trembling any more at this stage of my life, recognizing that I'm about as good as I can get right now and that's not so great either, so as the saying goes "so sue me" and "you can't get blood out of a turnip" if someone wants any more out of me. I trust Jehovah will deal with me justly (whatever that might be) and I'm OK with that). If a person feels that some other organization would better suit their spiritual growth, then they have the personal responsibility to go with them. I won't curse them if they choose to go even if that wouldn't be my choice.

What comes to mind as I ramble is "Greetings!  Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you meet with various trials, ³ knowing as you do that this tested quality of your faith produces endurance. But let endurance complete its work, so that you may be complete and sound in all respects, not lacking in anything..." James 1:2

People and organizations are like art. There's a proper viewing distance. Sometimes I see trees, sometimes I see the forest. Sometimes I see defects, and sometimes I see these as an opportunity.

In all this I look for Jehovah and to him and the guidance of his Son, and not to the humans who may or may not be moving in harmony with the Holy Spirit.

For some reason that also reminds me of this clip from "Enter the Dragon"

"Don't concentrate on the finger"

This was a very good post…but for those who have extremely deep scars it’s hard to read or hard to digest….i think just acknowledging the wrongness goes a long way in healing……( they are not actually doing this but they are still changing things )……. SOMEONE is making them bend their knees on certain things…..and he will use whatever he has at hand to do that…..personally I am of this mind……and I keep reminding myself I must still keep bending my knee to that someone…I know who he is using…..he will correct those people not so much for them/me…but for his own name sake.

That was a excellent clip!

[Thinking]

On 12/17/2023 at 1:51 AM, Pudgy said:

I wonder what REALLY prompted this out-of-the-blue with no indication dramatic change?

Not some esoteric contrived fantasy explanation to maintain authority ….

THE REAL REASON?

It may come out later…….

[Thinking]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:49 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, didn't GB tell you a long time ago: Don't think and conclude logically, because our instructions will not look/be logical.

That was WILD TALK ….😵‍💫

[Pudgy]

7 hours ago, George88 said:

It is possible that if AI becomes more diverse, we may witness the emergence of an artificial president. Oh, but hold on! We have already had a taste of that with Trump. Ha! Ha! 

Well … if you had a taste of Trump you   IMG_9292.MOV  

 

know the celery is all you can eat!

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, Pudgy said:

As usual, Georgie, as always you have missed the point.

I am sure everyone who comes here fully understands the symbolism …

…. but many hate how it has neen consintamtly been misapplied as a tool to manipulate the Brotherhood, to maintain ecclestical power to keep the money waterfall flowing.

Remember it was Aaron that misrepresented Jehovah by making the Golden Calf,  declaring

“This is Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt!”.

He convinced the Jews to contribute tons of gold to the project.

Someone should have searched his tent.

There is a reason that above the circuit or district level there is ZERO accountability for contributed funds to the Brotherhood.

I have carefully considered your agenda driven perspective, and what I see is a classic case of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

You gave me an excellent new perspective through the example of Aaron and the Golden Calf and the Stockholm Syndrome.

That is why I commented before that the spiritual condition of JWs is in great danger.

They agree to have Modern Aaron (GB) tell them who and what YHVH is. They have come to love their Kidnappers, they depend on their words so much and most JWs cannot leave them, cannot escape.

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, Many Miles said:

I think the current GB realizes it has a compilation of messes on its hands that can only accrue problematically. It's trying to dig itself out. But the fear is the pile is too deep. Ultimately the 1914 thing will implode on itself. Just a matter of time. Ultimately the blood policy will implode on itself. Just a matter of time. I think the society is looking for an exit ramp. Too many problems, too many informational sources. It'll only snowball.

I see that @Anna upvoted this comment, and she replied me how I was looking at the matter wrongly. What is the difference between this and my comments Anna? The snowball is rolling and getting bigger.

[Thinking]

On 12/17/2023 at 1:51 AM, Pudgy said:

I wonder what REALLY prompted this out-of-the-blue with no indication dramatic change?

Not some esoteric contrived fantasy explanation to maintain authority ….

THE REAL REASON?

 

On 12/17/2023 at 3:49 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, didn't GB tell you a long time ago: Don't think and conclude logically, because our instructions will not look/be logical.

 

On 12/16/2023 at 9:26 AM, Pudgy said:

I am happy the Brotherhood, and my sons, are now free of this tyranny.

It would have helped,  had there been an apology for all the ruined lives.

There was not.

There won’t be an apology or a “ we should have handled that differently”

as then it’s getting into legalities……I know you have been seriously hurt…and it’s a crying shame that only those with such scars really get what you are saying.

Im happy for your sons too and also my grandchildren…a different era of things..and Jehovah remembers those who have drifted….he doesn’t forget them.

[Thinking]

10 hours ago, George88 said:

My point is that no one here has the authority to judge the Watchtower. Only the Pharisees allowed themselves that power, which led to the death of Christ. So, where do you all get your authority from?

Based on what I have observed, I am skeptical that your actions align with the principles of being a good Christian or a Jehovah's Witness. Of course, I am not specifically addressing you as an individual, given that you are disfellowshipped. However, when it comes to the others, it is truly astonishing how they have compromised the depth of their souls. Whatever you may choose to share holds no significance for me, as it is merely a reflection of the others.

He’s not disfellowshipped.

[Thinking]

10 hours ago, Many Miles said:

I think the current GB realizes it has a compilation of messes on its hands that can only accrue problematically. It's trying to dig itself out. But the fear is the pile is too deep. Ultimately the 1914 thing will implode on itself. Just a matter of time. Ultimately the blood policy will implode on itself. Just a matter of time. I think the society is looking for an exit ramp. Too many problems, too many informational sources. It'll only snowball.

That’s what you want to happen…..I see this as corrections being made…that were well overdue…for whatever reason ..I’m very grateful.

Im very wary of you miles as so many on line start out warm and fuzzy..but they do not build up their former brothers and sisters but tear them down…not in a straight out  way…

Your scars do not give you the right to throw seeds of doubt around..endangering one’s who may themselves be struggling in this world and spiritually.

You have left the organization…..that’s your decision..and I respect it…even understand it….but you should be very very careful that you yourself do not  end up with blood on your hands.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, Thinking said:

On 12/16/2023 at 10:21 AM, Pudgy said:

I wonder what REALLY prompted this out-of-the-blue with no indication dramatic change?

Not some esoteric contrived fantasy explanation to maintain authority ….

THE REAL REASON?

It may come out later…….

It came out in the update itself:

“A number of branch offices around the world have written to us, indicating that there continues to be question about whether or not it is proper for a brother in an appointed position to wear a beard. . . . The Governing Body has concluded that there is a need for clarification.”

Translation: “There continues to be a question.” There should not be by now. We keep getting letters. We’re tired of it. There is a need for clarification. Nothing new, here. Just restatement of the old.

”The Governing Body does not have an issue with brothers wearing beards.” Got it? We don’t. To prove it, we’re now pulling out all the stops, employing all the bells and whistles, even hauling out the chariot, because when we first indicated it was a non-issue, no one took us up on it. So now, let us repeat…..(drum roll, please)….. We. Don’t. Care.

“We thought sending a message 7 years ago was enough: 

“What about the propriety of brothers wearing a beard? The Mosaic Law required men to wear a beard. However, Christians are not under the Mosaic Law, nor are they obliged to observe it. (Lev. 19:27; 21:5; Gal. 3:24, 25) In some cultures, a neatly trimmed beard may be acceptable and respectable, and it may not detract at all from the Kingdom message. In fact, some appointed brothers have beards. Even so, some brothers might decide not to wear a beard. (1 Cor. 8:9, 13; 10:32) In other cultures or localities, beards are not the custom and are not considered acceptable for Christian ministers. In fact, having one may hinder a brother from bringing glory to God by his dress and grooming and his being irreprehensible. —Rom. 15:1-3; 1 Tim. 3:2, 7.” (Sept 2016)

“We thought that would do the trick. It didn’t. So now we’re saying it so emphatically that nobody could possibly misunderstand it.”

It may well be that Rutherford disliked beards but so did everyone else of his time and well after. Look at television shows of that time. Count up the beards. Maynard G Krebs the beatnik had one. Beyond that, nearly zilch. I barely recall seeing any beards at all during by non-Witness youth, certainly not among my parents’ generation. 

Witnesses were just the last (by far) to notice the world had moved on from no-beards. They missed it because they were ‘insular,’ a problem more difficult to remedy than one might think because it is the flipside of the ‘no part of the world’ coin. If you are no part of the world, you are almost by definition ‘insular’ to a certain extent. That’s what insulation is—something that keeps two things that should not mix separate.

After that 2016 Watchtower, bodies of elders considered its local applicability. Some began to not fuss over beards for appointed servants, but most continued to. Some of those that did fretted that beards among servants would stumble congregation members, completely missing the point that Paul’s counsel about stumbling (over eating meat) was out of concern for new ones or nonbelievers. In the case of beards, these ones had no issue with it, but only some ‘veterans’ who had made it a virtue in itself to be beardless and who you’d think would have moved on by now. Old habits die hard, especially when you are insular.

At long last, the mess is resolved. It looks a little silly the way it happens, but it is resolved. It comes close on the heels of another irritant being resolved—the matter of ‘counting time’—applicable at one time, but less so with passing years, as it introduces curious and crippling notions of being ‘on duty’ and ‘off duty.’ It was a relic of guys raised from the factory era in which, even when there was nothing to do, you’d better look busy to avoid the boss’s displeasure. Times change. God is not like that. It has been discarded. 

Two nettlesome things resolved in fairly short order. As for Srecko and others, it will become a Mark Twain ‘Reports of my death are greatly exaggerated’ type of thing, Neither is really that big of a deal. It just seems so because they have been around so long. It takes a long long time to overturn entrenched habits.

It makes for unity to do things like #8. It also looks a little silly to those who have acquiesced to a disunited world, who consider that normal, and who grumble when anyone actually seeks unity not done their way, unity not achieved by waiting for all “the brokenhearted people living in the world [to] agree”—the way that history has demonstrated they never have or will.

JWs in the United States are almost exactly 1/3 white, 1/3 black, and 1/3 Hispanic, says Pew Research, also with about 5% Asian. Meaning? They have solved racism, an issue that tears the greater world apart. Though, at first glance, it seems not the same thing, if you want unity, you have to oil the cogs every once it a while, and Update 8 is an example of that on a lesser issue that unexpectedly became large.

Any criticism or ridicule of such ‘oiling’ is only valid if it comes from ones who themselves enjoy unity. Otherwise, it is little more than sour grapes. Some have simply acquiesced to a world without unity as ‘normal.’ Their criticisms don’t count. If you have long ago become part of the world, you can’t criticize the travails of those who haven’t.

‘Stockholm syndrome’—sheesh! What a bunch of loons. The GB is respected because they are the vehicle through which Bible truth was brought to us. It’s no more complicated than that.

42 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Im very wary of you miles as so many on line start out warm and fuzzy..but they do not build up their former brothers and sisters but tear them down…not in a straight out  way…

yeah.

[TrueTomHarley]

46 minutes ago, Thinking said:

That’s what you want to happen…..I see this as corrections being made…that were well overdue…for whatever reason ..I’m very grateful.

Not to mention how the video in #8 linked the sudden shaving craze to the a direct aftermath of WWI, and we all know what year that began in. There was the Bethel photo prior to 1914 showing all beards. There was the Bethel photo after 1914 showing few.

With any luck, the beard brouhaha can become the latest ‘sign of the last days’ to have been dealt with.