JWs sue Norwegian government

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, George88 said:

Put it simply, Srecko, if the terms of punishment are established in secular law, they are also established in God's law. Replace the term "free will" that you are advocating with the term "choice."

Free Will -- Harris, Sam [Harris, Sam] -- 2012 
Moral Responsibility
The belief in free will has given us both the religious conception of “sin” and our commitment to retributive justice. The U.S. Supreme Court has called free will a “universal and persistent” foundation for our system of law, distinct from “a deterministic view of human conduct that is inconsistent with the underlying precepts of our criminal justice system” (United States. esv Grayson)

1978). Any intellectual developments that threatened free will would seem to put the ethics of punishing people for their bad behavior in question.

The great worry, of course, is that an honest discussion of the underlying causes of human behavior appears to leave no room for moral responsibility. If we view people as neuronal weather patterns, how can we coherently speak about right and wrong or good and evil? These notions seem to depend upon people being able to freely choose how to think and act. And if we remain committed to seeing people as people, we must find some notion of personal responsibility that fits the facts.
The only remaining question to consider in each instance is, to what extent.

Yes, I believe we are a little under-capacitated, not intentionally, when we speaking about the term "free will". Mostly, in fact always, we equate "free will" with "choice".
I have never thought deeply about this topic, but I have a feeling that behind the term "free will" there is something else, something more that we do not see or know.
We have accepted the basic concept, that free will equals a choice between two or more things, as the only definition of free will.

For example, the comment you posted talks about an aspect of free will that is associated with "moral responsibility", with "sin", with "punishment", with "good and evil", with "right and wrong".

However, if one chooses to paint the walls of one's room blue rather than another color, then no human or divine "law" can be applied to sanction one's "choice". Because in this case it's not about whether someone has a sense of "right and wrong", it's about someone's taste for colors. And that taste for colors can be subject to the judgment of other people too, but that enters into another dimension of "condemnation or approval".
I have only illustrated how the term "free will" has a different meaning than the one used in the religious or criminal-law context of past and present humanity.

Or for example this. The parent returns home from work. He is tired, not everything went as planned at work, traffic jams and nervousness. He enters the house, the children have their needs, they ask to eat, they are hungry or they have made a mess in the house because of the game. The parent starts making noise and maybe punishes the children with a slap or hits them. Is it this only about the concept of the parent's basic "free will" to react that way, or did a combination of circumstances lead the parent to a mental and emotional state that led him to make a "bad choice"? 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

19 minutes ago, George88 said:

Doesn't this depend on the preferences of the residents? What would happen if you are married and your spouse dislikes that color? This assumption is too general.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. The term "free will" or "choice" has general as well as specific applications.

21 minutes ago, George88 said:

Does this illustration depict the difference between a child doing something wrong and a parent simply feeling overwhelmed by the challenges of daily life? You are outlining two separate perspectives.

Well, you don't think that little troublemakers always do wrong, do you?
Even when they make a bit of a mess in the house because of their game?

Have adults forgotten their childhood?

lol

[Srecko Sostar]

18 minutes ago, George88 said:

Imperfections

Should a "perfect" man and an "imperfect" man be judged according to the same standards and rules?

 

[Srecko Sostar]

9 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Should a "perfect" man and an "imperfect" man be judged according to the same standards and rules?

 

Let's take a hypothetical situation. In Eden, Adam and Eve have children. Now there are almost 100 perfect of them  in Eden. At one point one begins to steal, another begins to lie, a third kills his neighbor, a fourth commits adultery, and a fifth begins to worship the moon when the night is clear.
What will God do? If it is assumed according to the Biblical record, He will drive them out, expel, of Paradise.
How God deals with lawbreakers who are imperfect. According to the Law of Moses, the punishment for most transgressions is death or severe retribution.
An observer would conclude that the punishment is lighter for perfect offenders and heavier for imperfect offenders.

[Srecko Sostar]

@George88 I have to laugh at your comments, because you are not commenting on my comments at all, but you have your own topic outside the context of my statements.

 

[Pudgy]

On a related note, yesterday was Groundhog Day, and Joe Biden tried to shake hands with his shadow.

[Pudgy]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

@George88 I have to laugh at your comments, because you are not commenting on my comments at all, but you have your own topic outside the context of my statements.

 

It’s really, really sad in a way to see such neurotic insecurity and envy on display. 

But, I suppose Wally McNasty will ALWAYS be Wally McNasty, and distort reality at every opportunity. 

It is funny in a way, sorta like watching a guy with big ears and no teeth hook his lower lip over his nose.

[BTK59]

I guess that would mean Wally McNasty is linked to James Thomas Rook Jr, or is it Pudgy now? lol!

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, George88 said:

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Should a "perfect" man and an "imperfect" man be judged according to the same standards and rules?

Although some may find the concept strange, the undeniable proof lies within the consequences of Adam's judgment in the garden, and the subsequent fallout. Was it part of God's plan for this to occur? No! However, as imperfect beings, we are now burdened with living with the consequences. Therefore, we have lost the privilege and distinction of being perfect like the man whom imperfect humans unjustly killed.

Sorry, but I really don't see any answer, to the question, in this comment.

[Srecko Sostar]

Update:
The Norwegian court ruled in favor of the Norwegian state. Will the JWs complain? They mostly complain about unfavorable judgments.
Video with one of the ex-Jew participants in the process.

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

google Translation of the verdict

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13g-lcV2r67Z0Q6l1CKeYdaYMlHwY7eK4/view?pli=1

[Pudgy]

Some selected excerpts from the Court’s decision. 

To see the fines or court costs the WTB&TS having LOST the case  is sentenced to pay in $USD, multiply Norwegian Kroner, NOK, by 0.0955.