Forum participants we have known

[BTK59]

What's interesting is that criticism, when it lacks constructiveness and becomes purely shameful, is still not deemed as bad behavior.

[JW Insider]

Sometime today or tomorrow, I will likely move some of the very off-topic posts over to here that are currently in a topic about Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus, because they are about people and other unrelated topics.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, BTK59 said:

LOL! It's quite impressive how even with the removal of many forum members, individuals like AlanF and Srecko continue to thrive. Where was the compassion for others?

It is true that I didn’t feel the love. But I may have egged him on. I have been known to do that. Thinking and Aruana did not, however. His attacks on them were provoked only by their standing up to him.

[BTK59]

45 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is true that I didn’t feel the love. But I may have egged him on. I have been known to do that. Thinking and Aruana did not, however. His attacks on them were provoked only by their standing up to him.

However, it is puzzling that those who incited the situation are still present, while others are not. This is the excuse often found in instances of injustice.

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Many Miles said:

That was an instance of a person who, as an adult, returned to what he had been raised in. The situation with JWs is to the contrary. Children raised in the religion, as adults, cease identifying with it and don't return.

In directed video films for JWs conventions, those who have been excluded/dfd return.

[Many Miles]

24 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In directed video films for JWs conventions, those who have been excluded/dfd return.

That's what I'd expect to see emphasized in video produced by the society. But my comment alluded to PEW research which found nearly 70% of persons raised as JW do not identify with the religion as adults, which is not something I would expect the society to produce a video of.

[Many Miles]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Thinking and Aruana did not, however. His attacks on them were provoked only by their standing up to him.

I'm not intimately familiar with AlanF's participation here. But it's contrary to my experience that AlanF would attack things a person said for no reason. On the other hand, if he felt a person's intelligence was anywhere north of idiocy, he would become increasingly aggressive in his presentation of information and responses if the individual refused to learn. For AlanF, that reaction was somewhat of a compliment. It meant he saw intelligence in the person he was engaging. How what he said might make them feel was not something he'd spend much time considering, let alone worrying about.

A weakness AlanF had, in my opinion, was that he tended to discount the extent of influence emotion can have on a person's ability to comprehend. Academically he'd yield that latter point, but in discussion not so much. Some individuals have such an emotional need that there are things they just can't allow themselves to learn of because it would wreck the world they depend on. A person on a ledge we should not push. I'm not suggesting that's the case with the other names you mention. One I've had some decent amount of interaction with and find them pleasant enough and not tide down emotionally. But with AlanF seeing anything through another person's lens of emotion was something he had trained himself to refrain from as a matter of learning, and learning was what he thrived on and lived for.

AlanF and I have both been downrange of one another's conclusions and arguments, so I know that experience. Some of those discussions were more than robust! Thankfully we both gave one another full liberty to speak freely in our exchanges without thought of feelings. But I only know how I experienced it, not how the same would be experienced by another person. Another person could easily find it offensive, or even as an attack. Whether I agreed or disagreed with AlanF (or anyone else!) I always looked for whatever I can learn from each interaction, and there is always something to learn. That said, later in my life I have determined not to spend time suffering fools.

[BTK59]

1 hour ago, Many Miles said:

On the other hand, if he felt a person's intelligence was anywhere north of idiocy, he would become increasingly aggressive in his presentation of information and responses if the individual refused to learn.

What's the distinction between someone else being aggressive about that idiocy, considering that it could involve anyone in the closed club as well as individuals here? It appears that you are giving excessive importance to an individual who boasted about their intelligence but demonstrated very little of it.

We can also observe the parallels that are evident in present-day discussions. What gives any individual the authority to determine what is right or wrong on any given topic?

While others were kicked out, AlanF managed to stay despite his rude and profane comments. It appears hypocritical to me, particularly given that some individuals in the closed club were also rude and obnoxious.

[TrueTomHarley]

8 hours ago, BTK59 said:

However, it is puzzling that those who incited the situation are still present, while others are not. This is the excuse often found in instances of injustice.

These days, tortured souls are a dime a dozen. Even I am that way. And, not to complain, but I don’t think I’m getting anywhere near the love here that I need.

 

7 hours ago, Many Miles said:

he would become increasingly aggressive in his presentation of information and responses if the individual refused to learn.

Okay, now I see the reason for Aruana’s, Thinking’s and my trouble with Alan. We ‘refused to learn.’ That would make anyone furious.

[Srecko Sostar]

15 hours ago, BTK59 said:

19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It's not that Jehovah doesn't "watch" errors, but he is all-knowing and all-understanding and has provided the ransom as a means for forgiveness. So he doesn't watch for errors to slap us down like a human boss might, and he doesn't judge by the number of errors.

This statement is incorrect. God graciously offers repentance to bring about forgiveness. Therefore, those who fail to repent of their mistakes, as evident in the past biblical examples, will face divine judgment. God holds accountable those who claim to be His children, but later betray Him by renouncing their commitment, just as it happens today through baptism.

The concept, the interpretation, presented by WTJWorg, when it talks about Armageddon (and the Last Judgment at the end of the 1000 years of the New World), actually involves collecting data about someone's "mistakes/errors". Because an individual's actions include his good and bad deeds on the basis of which he is "judged".

According to the latest "clarification" a person can approach God in the last minute before Armageddon breaks out and will be saved from death.

So now we see that WTJWorg theology is getting confused, as it has been many times before. A reversal has been made that in a certain way not only invalidates additional JWs theology, but also invalidates elements from Jesus' teaching that speaks of "separating the sheep and the goats" before his judgment seat. It also cancels elements from Jesus' standard, which is that those who did good to his brothers will be in his grace, and those who did not will be rejected. It means that Jesus must have a list of when we did or did not give someone water or clothes and the like.

Separating the "sheep from the goats" as a process that takes place based on JWs preaching and people's decision to obey or reject the "good news" was the cornerstone of why JWs preach. Next to another stone, which is that the JWS should not be guilty of the blood, because they would be guilty of the blood of the "godless" if they failed to "warn" the people that the "imminent destruction" was coming.

So, do we have a God who keeps records of our actions, because he needs these records to make a judicial decision whether to leave us alive or destroy us in "Armageddon"?
Or do we have a God who will ignore all our past actions because we will turn/repent of our sins to him in the last minute before "Armageddon"?

What is the real role of the much hyped and mandatory work of "preaching the good news", if people can be absolved en masse from every kind of sin because they will realize "who is the true God" in a minute before Armageddon begins?

WTJWorg will have countless members who will be like Jonah who preached the "certain destruction" of those who did not accept the "global preaching of the last days", and in the end they ALL survived.

What concept or to what extent, ratio is the official WTJWorg doctrine now advocating on this matter?

[BTK59]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

actually involves collecting data about someone's "mistakes/errors". Because an individual's actions include his good and bad deeds on the basis of which he is "judged".

Do you doubt that God personally collects that data? What was the reason for using mortal servants to judge his people? Similarly, what would be the purpose of establishing a standard for repentance and the unrepentant?

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

According to the latest "clarification" a person can approach God in the last minute before Armageddon breaks out and will be saved from death.

Do you believe that God would see the convenience of such action? If that's the understanding, then it seems like we can do whatever we want, and then at the last moment, just say "I repent" and all will be forgiven. Of course, that's definitely going to happen! Lol!

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So now we see that WTJWorg theology is getting confused, as it has been many times before. A reversal has been made that in a certain way not only invalidates additional JWs theology, but also invalidates elements from Jesus' teaching that speaks of "separating the sheep and the goats" before his judgment seat. It also cancels elements from Jesus' standard, which is that those who did good to his brothers will be in his grace, and those who did not will be rejected. It means that Jesus must have a list of when we did or did not give someone water or clothes and the like.

Nay! I believe that former members tend to complicate matters in theology, accounting for approximately 99% of the confusion. Somehow, they either truly never knew about the bible or they have lost the ability to rationalize sitting on Moses' judgment seat.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What is the real role of the much hyped and mandatory work of "preaching the good news", if people can be absolved en masse from every kind of sin because they will realize "who is the true God" in a minute before Armageddon begins?

Let's seek guidance from Jesus, who initiated and commanded it for his faithful followers to pass on to future generations the purpose of God for his creation on earth.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg will have countless members who will be like Jonah who preached the "certain destruction" of those who did not accept the "global preaching of the last days", and in the end they ALL survived.

Considering your mention of survival, I'm curious to know if everyone who underwent God's "judgment" managed to survive. Could you provide an example of someone from Sodom and Gomorrah who was not part of Lot's group that survived God's judgment?

Let's take a step back, shall we? Is there any evidence of other individuals surviving God's destruction of humanity, besides Noah and his chosen family?

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What concept or to what extent, ratio is the official WTJWorg doctrine now advocating on this matter?

The lack of bible understanding should be a powerful motivation for witnesses to persist in preaching and teaching it in the "right" way.

[Many Miles]

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Okay, now I see the reason for Aruana’s, Thinking’s and my trouble with Alan. We ‘refused to learn.’ That would make anyone furious.

To be clear, I was speaking from AlanF's perspective. Whether someone was, for whatever reason, failing to learn when AlanF thought them capable is something I would not know. I was just sharing a bit about how the man's mind worked and how he tended to interact with people. It was not my intent to suggest anything insulting.