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Watchtower's 1914 Chronology - Ad Nauseum


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9 hours ago, BTK59 said:

As I prepared to rest, I was struck by a simple truth revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. 

You really do have a monstrous ego.

 

9 hours ago, BTK59 said:

Once again, I find it disappointing that those identifying as Jehovah's Witnesses here seem to lack a full understanding of the Bible, despite claiming otherwise for the past 10 years.

 

What a joy you must be to those in your congregation. Although I still do not believe you are a real witness. 

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I hope pudgy is okay but I’m fearing the worse……I really like pudgy…

Yes yes I know..I did the maths too…I was trying to be nice…..one is dealing with “ One flew over the Cookoo’s nest”…..here…

I hear he went down into the abyss locked in combat with a mortal enemy who was yelling ‘Fly, you fools!’ and imagining he had saved the day. Only, unlike the movie, he remained suppressed and it was

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2 hours ago, Miracle Pete said:

You really do have a monstrous ego.

I will not conform to apostasy, unlike you, Tom. My allegiance lies with God, for His opinion holds true significance, not yours.

2 hours ago, Miracle Pete said:

What a joy you must be to those in your congregation. Although I still do not believe you are a real witness.

They find it quite insightful, just like those from any branch office or the Watchtower itself. So, what can they say about you, Tom? I've never believed that you, along with your friends like JWI and anyone else opposing God, are real witnesses. That's what you are demonstrating to the public here, aren't you proud?

I must reluctantly side with Srecko on this matter of failing to discern between pretenders and apostates. It is no surprise that his heart has become hardened when you individuals continue to behave as though you are still a part of this world.

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23 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Why doesn’t he state his point just once or twice and move on? I think it is quite clear that is what would happen if not for you. He states a point in a scholarly way. You apply accelerant and make sure the entire ‘public’ knows about it. In this way, you facilitate ‘apostasy’ far more than he.

I guess it's good to explain oneself every couple of years.

I said above that I am not trying to convince fellow Witnesses that 607 BCE is the wrong date for the destruction of Jerusalem. It might sound like it, but it would be an unreasonable goal to expect more than a small fraction of Witnesses to change their view on such a longstanding, strongly entrenched tradition. 

So here's my actual reasoning: (BTK should probably cover his eyes.)

There will always be persons who hear good things about the Witnesses and who will want to study with us. But there will be some, admittedly only a few, who will decide to look at the details for themselves. There may even be some who already knew about the details of the Babylonian chronology, and who will realize that it isn't a controversy at all, and it really isn't at all a matter of choosing Bible chronology over secular chronology.

I believe there will be more of these persons over time. No amount of bluster or false, contradictory explanations is going to convince them. (Because they have seen the details for themselves.) So what are we to do? Do we merely make sure that no one who has educated themselves about this particular topic will ever become a Witness? 

I think there should be a chance for these persons to know that a person can still be one of Jehovah's Witnesses and realize that this 607 thing was just a simple mistake that someone made back in 1873 or so, but that no one thought/sought to look into it or correct the mistake because it had apparently proven true as a prophecy about 1914.*

*I don't think anyone can blame most Witnesses for not really wanting to look into the details because we really do think something happened in 1914 that was prophetically significant. We would automatically be suspicious of anyone who had looked into the details for themselves and found an issue with them. We think that if we were to begin looking into the same, that we must be "kicking against the goads" or even "fighting against the holy spirit." We have been taught that perhaps it's controversial, but that it's just a matter of putting more faith in the Bible than in secular chronology.

That "Bible vs secular" mindset works for us, even though it's a false premise. But I'm talking about interested persons who have actually already LOOKED or who WILL LOOK into the data for themselves. Those persons will not have a choice to deny what they know. They should know that it is possible to be a Witness without having to deny something they KNOW to be true. They should also be aware that a Witness who accepts an alternative view about 607 and 1914 need not hold a very different view of the world around us and the closeness of the end of this system.

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

They should know that it is possible to be a Witness without having to deny something they KNOW to be true. They should also be aware that a Witness who accepts an alternative view about 607 and 1914 need not hold a very different view of the world around us and the closeness of the end of this system.

Maybe we can say it’s okay to join us but they don’t have to use the main auditorium; we’ll reserve space for them in the spare room where we keep the literature carts. 

Motive understood. Even BTK will acquiesce, I think.

Meanwhile, hopefully they will not be like that guy on the Titanic who inspected the lifeboat safety inspection sticker, saw it did not incorporated the latest methods, and declined to board.

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I believe there has been a breakthrough in understanding how a "few" entrenched witnesses can manipulate facts to fit their narratives, despite secular history and biblical accounts offering a different perspective on time and dating systems. These determined dissenters will stop at nothing to convince their spiritual brothers that there is a conflict with these historical structures, even though they themselves are the cause of it.

No one should ever be prevented from conducting their own independent research. It is recommended that extensive and factual research be carried out without restricting it to seeking only what they claim to be facts, especially when historical facts contradict the mistaken facts being presented as their conclusions.

Such a remarkable undertaking has taken place in the past, where a single disenchanted individual such as Carl Olof Jonsson delved into extensive research without conducting a thorough investigation. He believed he had found indisputable evidence, unaware that his claims had already been refuted a decade earlier.

This led many members of the brotherhood to stumble, including a governing body member who fell into disgrace, much like what is happening today.

However, even after 47 years, it seems that God has not deemed it necessary to rectify the interpretation of the "Gentile Times" as described in scripture. There are individuals who, due to their lack of understanding of history or the Bible, simply choose to see and believe only what aligns with their personal beliefs. When these individuals then bring up their views in a public forum, their actions and behavior can be classified as driven by apostasy. Their actions go against the language found in scripture, and these "few hardened" individuals are compromising its teachings.

1 Timothy 4-6 New Living Translation
Warnings against False Teachers
4 Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. 2 These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead.[a]

True Jehovah's Witnesses should be cautious when visiting this website and not be misled into believing information that contradicts historical facts or the language of scripture. It is important to remain steadfast in the understanding of the scriptures, and should be swayed by its numbers and language mentioned in scripture.

Therefore, when Luke 21:24 is mentioned, it carries both present and future significance. The warning to the Jews about the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE was not the complete prophetic fulfillment, as they continued to be subject to the gentiles.

The fulfillment of that prophecy could only be realized when the Jews were liberated from the dominance of the gentiles. This domination came to an end in 1914, as history unmistakably shows. When a small group, who can only be labeled as "skeptics," refuses to acknowledge the evidence presented by the Bible and human history, their credibility is diminished. Therefore, such critics cannot be relied upon to provide an unbiased perspective, much like apostates who have always distorted this topic.

Therefore, Scripture is clear on how to handle those who have come to know God's truth and then distort His teachings to align themselves with the world. 2 Peter 2 covers this very well, along with other citations of Scripture.

It's not simply a question of believing in 607 or 1914. The real issue lies in the dissemination of a distorted message to the public, which contradicts the true teachings of scripture. What should be emphasized is a thorough understanding of scripture, rather than personal interpretations. It is precisely because the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses adheres to this correct approach in applying God's word that they have not been "removed" by God.

Indeed, God has deemed it necessary to eliminate those who questioned His word through skepticism and instigated conflict within the brotherhood. This unmistakably demonstrates that those who are truly equipped to comprehend these matters are not the ones indulging in skeptical independent research, which only leads to discord and division.

There is absolutely no excuse or justification for questioning God's word, whether it's done publicly or privately. If a believer is genuinely experiencing conflict, it is important to address it respectfully by seeking guidance from their Elders. The Watchtower article titled "false stories" can serve as a helpful guide for any sincere witness. However, it's also crucial for these witnesses to understand the purpose behind this forum: to provide a platform for both disenchanted witnesses and apostates to express their concerns along with their criticism as "revilers" against the Watchtower and its members.

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58 minutes ago, BTK59 said:

However, even after 47 years, it seems that God has not deemed it necessary to rectify the interpretation of the "Gentile Times" as described in scripture.

Curiously the Watchtower’s teachings surrounding the Great Pyramid of Giza took almost exactly 47 years before Jehovah saw fit to correct them. 

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45 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Curiously the Watchtower’s teachings surrounding the Great Pyramid of Giza took almost exactly 47 years before Jehovah saw fit to correct them. 

Your presentation lacks meaning if you choose to deceive with false claims. Your words should not be taken seriously. I cannot recall that in 1977, the Watchtower, under the guidance of Jehovah's Witnesses, endorsed the Great Pyramid, as you falsely accuse. Similarly, Pastor Russell did not endorse the Great Pyramid, as you falsely claim, along with others who looked into its mystical powers.

However, you persist in promoting two untrue assertions: that you are not a person who insults others and that you are a credible witness.

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On 6/23/2024 at 3:33 PM, Thinking said:

You need to keep up with the new understandings and thoughts of the GB…they are teaching the real love that Jesus showed to those others considered ..good for nothing…they are really really pushing how we need to be kind to each other and even show kindness to those disfellowshipped…or did you miss that point.

Is there specific guidance in their updated beliefs regarding how to interact with disfellowshipped individuals beyond offering a positive greeting? It seems that you and Tom have already expressed a differing opinion from the GB, suggesting that you may need to reassess your own understanding before sharing misinformation. The article on false stories highlights the importance of verifying information from untrustworthy sources for genuine witnesses.

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On 6/23/2024 at 8:26 AM, Thinking said:

Forums can make you stronger or humbled and wiser or break you totally….they can also make one sarcastic nasty bombastic bitchy and frustrated …..( I can be guilty of all) but I’ve learnt things and got to  know some who I have affection for,,,and sure hope we meet at some time in that New World tho I think ..and I bet we wouldn’t mention anything that’s been discussed on this forum,,

You are correct in noting that I will not change my beliefs by accepting language that does not align with the principles of a Jehovah's Witness. Instead of displaying hypocrisy and behaving contrary to God's will, it is important to present ourselves as true Christians. Rather than being vocal, let us seek to understand the truth in the proper manner.

It's important to remember that according to God's assurance, there will come a time when his followers will be separated into sheep and goats, and then there will be a judgment that no proud person can deny. Therefore, misplaced loyalties do not hold favor with God.

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Under the guidelines provided by the Governing Body updates, it is important to address a misconception that has been presented as truth in this forum. It is essential to clarify this misinformation for other members of the congregation. Contrary to what was previously thought, it is still the responsibility of the Elders to maintain communication with disfellowshipped individuals. The previous instruction for the congregation to not even give a greeting to a disfellowshipped individual may have had a negative impact. However, the recent update now allows the congregation to have a positive impact by offering a simple greeting.

Update number #2 does not designate a specific place where the congregation can socialize with a disfellowshipped individual. However, it does rely on the conscience of each individual if they wish to give a simple greeting to a disfellowshipped person. The congregation as a whole is not authorized to reinstate an individual. That responsibility belongs to the elders.

The second update from the governing body is intended for "repentant" individuals—those with genuine remorse in their hearts, not superficial regret used to deceive others into believing they have changed.
 
1. The 2024 Governing Body Update #2 announced adjustments in the way serious wrong-doing will be addressed by the elders. This document outlines those adjustments, which should be implemented immediately. The body of elders should meet within one week following the release of this document to review this direction. In addition, the circuit overseer will review this material with the elders during his next visit to the congregation following the release of this document. If the body of elders has questions about a specific case, please write to the Service Department, providing complete details. In due course, the Shepherd and Organized books will be revised to reflect these adjustments. 
JEHOVAH “DESIRES ALL TO ATTAIN TO REPENTANCE” 

 3. In the 2024 Governing Body Update #2, we received clarification on three scriptures. 

(1) In harmony with 2 Timothy 2:24, 25, a committee of elders will lovingly correct and instruct a wrongdoer with the goal of leading him to repentance. 

(2) As outlined at 1 Corinthians 5:13, a person who refuses to repent must be removed from the congregation. However, the committee will still try to help him see the need to return and will arrange for a follow-up meeting in a few months. 

(3) We also clarified our understanding of 2 John 9-11, which we learned applies specifically to apostates and others who actively promote wrong conduct, not to all those who have been removed from the congregation. 

4. Let us consider in more detail how these clarifications relate to how wrongdoers should be dealt with in the congregation. 

HOW CAN ELDERS COOPERATE WITH JEHOVAH IN ‘LEADING A SINNER TO REPENTANCE’? 

Therefore, it is the Elders who will make the determination of whether a person has truly repented. This decision will be based on their perception of the individual's ongoing adherence to the spirit and guidance of the Bible, rather than simply accepting the person's claims made in an open forum.

So, witnesses are encouraged to review the Governing Body updates to verify any misinformation given in this platform.

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28 minutes ago, BTK59 said:

So, witnesses are encouraged to review the Governing Body updates to verify any misinformation given in this platform.

The droves and droves of true Witnesses whom you seem to think flock to this platform, heedless of organizational counsel that they should not, should also recognize that no one (in the closed club) claims to be a stellar example of counsel to avoid any interaction at all with ‘apostates.’ But only you, not allowed in the closed club, thoroughly trash that counsel, as though contemptuous of it, and eagerly seek out people with whom to bicker with 24/7–thus enormously extending their shelf life, and all the while insisting you are the only faithful one around—and, alas, usually getting your head handed to you because of your reliance on name calling and dark condescension.

Everyone else is at least partially checked by organizational counsel, and might be far worse without it. They do try to remain in the overall spirit of it. Only one person here puts himself above it and ignores it completely.

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8 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The droves and droves of true Witnesses whom you seem to think flock to this platform

There is ample evidence of other spiritual perspectives being shared in this forum. Are you suggesting that these witnesses should halt their efforts so that only this propaganda can persist?

Perles spirituelles - Semaine du 23 Juin 2024 - Psaumes 54 - 56

12 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

heedless of organizational counsel that they should not, should also recognize that no one (in the closed club) claims to be a stellar example of counsel to avoid any interaction at all with ‘apostates.’

Although you keep insisting, you still associate with and defend Pudgy and JWI sometimes, so I wouldn't go as far as to say never.

15 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But only you, not allowed in the closed club, thoroughly trash that counsel

I am grateful to God for sparing me from being involved with those who dismiss scripture as worthless advice. I wouldn't even acknowledge such a person.

17 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

and all the while insisting you are the only faithful one around—and, alas, usually getting your head handed to you because of your reliance on name calling and dark condescension.

Do you mean to say that you're engaging in the same behavior that you're criticizing? It seems that you are getting upset as well. I'll be sure to look out for you with your new account.

19 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Everyone else is at least partially checked by organizational counsel, and might be far worse without it. They do try to remain in the overall spirit of it. Only one person here puts himself above it and ignores it completely.

I doubt that with or without they are the same.

Meantime, I forgot to post how the public is being misled before you ban me.

HOW SHOULD PUBLISHERS TREAT A PERSON WHO HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE CONGREGATION?
18. When a person has been removed from the congregation, we “stop keeping company” with that person, “not even eating with such a man.” (1 Cor. 5:11) However, as explained and demonstrated in the 2024 Governing Body Update #2, if the person attends congregation meetings, a publisher can use his Bible-trained conscience to decide if he will give a simple greeting and welcome the disfellowshipped person to the meeting or not.

19. A Christian may also choose to invite a disfellowshipped person—perhaps a relative, a former Bible student, or someone he was close to in the past—to attend a congregation meeting.

Do not attempt to coerce me into embracing your brand of Christianity.

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